JOE-05 - The Crusades

frankcor · May 30, 2007

Okay, kewl. I'm on it. I have a dinner date this evening but will play later on.

I see we have a Great General sleeping. Did we have plans for him? I didn't see anything in this tread about it. I suggest it'll be best to have him build an academy in one of our high-output cities. I see we're building Iron Works in our Heroic Epic city so it might be overkill to build it there. I'll check back in here for feedback prior to playing.

JesusOnEez · May 31, 2007

OK frankcor, play away. The great generals have generally (no pun intended) been added to Lyons and Orleans as our two major unit production monsters...I guess adding him to one of them was the plan (whichever has less than the other one). I wouldn't build an academy, they can build units fast enough and the extra XP is more valuable IMHO.

vra, stop being so cryptic! :lol:

frankcor · May 31, 2007

I'm playing now. I regret the delays and I'll try to make it up to you all by kicking some Ruskie tail for your entertainment.

JesusOnEez · Jun 1, 2007

No worries...just leave some for me.

:ar15:

frankcor · Jun 1, 2007

Not to worry, JOE. I left you some.

I played 9.9 turns. The concluding move awaits team discussion because I'm uncertain of what to do.

--------------------------------

I pondered the options on what to do with the General I found sleeping in Paris. Our two super-production cities, Orleans(60 hammers/turn) and Lyons(52), already had two Instructors assigned each. By my reckoning, that permits them to train Level 4 units with 11 experience.

Barracks +3 experience
Religion +2
Theocracy +2
2 Instructors +4

One more instructor won't help either city sufficiently to justify burning another general there.

Our next two best hammer cities were Arretium and Essen, each with 30 hammers/turn. Neither had instructors so far. I selected to assign our general to Essen because it's closer to our pick up point. It was constructing an airport and will be able to deliver some Level 3 (9/10) units directly to the front.

I toured our cities getting familiar with specializations and Specialist assignments. I worked a couple of more cottages in exchange for food but no other changes were made. I'm a little confused by Arpinium, our Globe Theatre city. Without Slavery, it is cranking out a ton of food and only has 5 hammers per turn. I suspect it's been used for drafting recently so I drafted another Infantry from it. It has produced no buildings that permit it to assign specialists other than Artists. I switched production to a Forum and started working the only mine within its big cross. The Forum will allow us to hire 2 Merchants and convert some of the food into gold. Meanwhile, I hired 5 artists there just for the added 15 beakers per turn. They cut a turn off the time for Radio. (well, that is until I decided to play 3 turns of anarchy ... read on)

I found some workers sleeping, some right next to unrailroaded mines and lumbermills. They're now finished up and I've sent them to sleep in cities around the empire.

I revolted to Universal Sufferage and Free Speech before starting my turns. It was 3 agonizing turns of anarchy. But it had to be done. You can say I took one for the team.

But Representation and Nationhood just didn't make any sense at this point in the game. We were already far ahead in research and happiness wasn't a significant issue. The new civics would cost 12 more per turn but our economy can handle it.

Militarily, I'm not happy with my performance in my first turnset in this game. I thought at first I could capture 3, maybe 4 cities.

But then, I saw vra's request that we raze the Islamic cities first. I'm not exactly sure how us taking the captured English cities and giving them back to Elizabeth creates a risk of Peter making peace with Elizabeth. I'd be more concerned with her capitulating and having our forces kicked out of her cities. On the other hand I guess we won't have to worry about triggering Domination by bypassing cities to wipe out Islam first.

And do you see where the Islamic cities are????

We had one huge army in the center of the other continent:

Many of them were wounded and would require a turn of healing. They faced a treacherous trek across hostile terrain to the Islamic cities. We also had a smaller stack aboard transports bearing down on St. Petersburg. So to honor vra's request, it made sense to send our main force across Indian country to Rostov and let our smaller task force take St. Petersburg:

The best units in this stack were wounded. I was not inclined to making a landing next to all that Artillery so I made the decision to pull outside the cultural border of Russia to permit healing while our navy reduced the defenses of the city.

As our Stack of Doom healed, I used some of our units to kill Russians nearby and in the city of Canterbury.

I also used some workers to complete the railroad to Canterbury and a turn later, England recaptured it on its own:

Meanwhile our army had began its trek through Russia while I feared an eventual comparison with Napoleon or Hitler.

But the outcome was inevitable:

I let our super-medic deliver the coup de gras. One Islamic city razed, one to go.

Meanwhile, at St. Petersburg, our force did not fare so well. Most of that force, it turns out, were drafted infantry with +2 experience. Because the city was defended by mostly Artillery, collateral damage was not a factor. So we had 1 Tank, one Marine and many Level 1 Infantry. After sacrificing an Artillery of our own, and sending in the Tank and the Marine, we were left with 6 Infantry facing a dozen artillery. The best odds a Combat I infantry could get was 25%. But I struck anyways and withdrew the survivors back outside to the ocean to let them heal. The second wave wasn't any better and I even lost the Tank @ 70% odds. You can see by checking the log below, that we suffered great losses but I was able to whittle down that stack of Artillery. Unfortunately, all the losses spiked our war weariness and I was forced to crank up culture at the expense of research and gold.

I learned a painful lesson. When a transport is stacked with Galleons or Frigates, the transport does not defend if the stack is attacked, even though it has 4 times the strength of a Galleon. I lost at least 1 frigate and 2 galleons before the lesson sunk in. :smoke:

Fortunately, the galleons were not carrying troops at the time.

So now it's decision time:

After the fall of Rostov, I doubled back to Warwick and that city is ready to be plucked. Arretium has an airport and a Christian Missionary due next turn. Without further clarification from vra, I felt uncomfortable taking the city so I ended my turnset without pulling the trigger.

When Warwick falls, we can send a couple Tanks to St. Petersburg to finish that city off. Another Tank and a Marine are aboard the first transport from home to arrive in my turnset and there's another Marine healing offshore to help the tanks. There's also a settler and some machine guns waiting off shore to build a city on the site of St. Petersburg's ruins.

Our first fighter off the assembly lines participated in the elimination of Warwick's garrison. More fighters and now bombers are in the works.

Research isn't so hot with War Weariness but we have sufficient technology right now to win this game. The outcome is certain, from what I can see.

Spoiler Autolog :

Here's the save: Alexius_I_AD-1874.CivWarlordsSave

mice · Jun 1, 2007

Looks like a good result. Nice modern warring. That was a surprise about the transport not defending. I wonder why.

The buddhist city could stay or go IMO. I think it doesn't matter much to the variant as long as Islam goes. Liz is in free religion so I don't see her converting.

Even if she converts to christianity, there are plenty of other religions on the map. I don't think our objective is to wipe them all out.

OTOH it would be a nice resolution to the game to have every leader christian.
I guess we just need a lot of missionaries and gold to bribe?

JesusOnEez · Jun 2, 2007

The buddhist city could stay or go IMO. I think it doesn't matter much to the variant as long as Islam goes. Liz is in free religion so I don't see her converting.

5. Holy cities must be razed.

With this in mind, we will be warring with Liz, so I would flatten it. if we took it the cultural pressure would be too great to keep it, plus we'd have to defend it as well, taking up valuable troops that could be doing something better. Giving it away...hmmm...would you give a city to someone who you're going to war with? Not me.

One vote for flatten it!

mice · Jun 2, 2007

Ah yes I didn't see that it was a holy city. Must be razed, must war with Liz.

It would be good if we could force her to convert before we finish the game.

frankcor · Jun 2, 2007

mice said:
OTOH it would be a nice resolution to the game to have every leader christian.
I guess we just need a lot of missionaries and gold to bribe?

It's certainly do-able. The Byzantine Empire's economy can produce plenty of both. ... er ... after we resolve some of the happiness issues I exacerbated :blush:

JesusOnEez said:
would you give a city to someone who you're going to war with? Not me.

Well, maybe if I'm trying to maximize the number of Great General's I can generate??? Hmmm... there might be an SG idea in there somewhere.

Right now we're relying on peace with the English to base aircraft in Canterbury. Yakutsk could serve as a base next.

If you don't mind, JoE, you can take my save and finish up that last stack's movements and then take your turnset.

You'll note that I've split our forces a bit. There are units healing near the ruins of Rostov. They are heavily protected. Another stack has turned towards the southwest with mal-intent upon Orenburg burning in their eyes.

We could consider splitting the main stack yet once again after the fall of Warwick, sending half to St. Petersburg and the other half north to Moscow. The St. Petersburg stack could then board transports and we can begin to utillize Sullla's Doctrine using deadly combined arms tactics. Our Artillery units will be more of a burden than an asset, slowing our advance. Can we use them for city defense?

We killed a ton of Russian Artillery units but Peter is obsessed with building them. They're the strongest unit he can produce, I think. Cossacks are annoying but not lethal in moderate numbers. Let's bomb his horses as soon as possible. I feel the risk of splitting our force in hostile territory is justified by the swift destruction of the Russian war machine. Go forth and spread The Word of the Lord!

JesusOnEez · Jun 3, 2007

I've got it. Rock on!

mice · Jun 3, 2007

frankcor said:
Our Artillery units will be more of a burden than an asset, slowing our advance.

Do atillery move slower? Is it a railways thing ?

the cossacks are annoying. Worth noting that infantry don't get the bonus vs mounted that rifles do.

Frankor said:
The St. Petersburg stack could then board transports and we can begin to utillize Sullla's Doctrine using deadly combined arms tactics.

I agree with the idea of using transports to attack and probably raze the coastal cities. We have a few marines as I remember

JesusOnEez · Jun 3, 2007

Half a turnset as I needed to stop for team discussion.

Frankcor's last turn!
I take my own advice and flatten Warwick!

The remainder of the stack heads to St. Petersburg.

TURN 1 - 1875AD
We lost a couple of Infantry between turns. I'm going to use a Battleship stationed at Ostia to take out some old Russian naval units that are annoying Ardea in the South. We can't reach the Horses to bomb them yet, so I bomb Orenburg's Uranium. Troops are heading for Orenburg and St. Petersburg.

TURN 2 - 1876AD
Only 1 Cossacks attack this turn...is he running out? More worringly, Peter has just progressed an era, I witnessed his Windmills upgrade! I wonder what he'll hit us with next!

I've just noticed Warwick was sitting on a Coal resource, but I think Peter has another.

Peter has a stack of 4 Artillery an 1 Rifle trying to sneak up on our stacks. We kill it with the loss of one Artillery, and a Grenadier takes out the Rifle.

Ostia has been made Christian.

TURN 3 - 1877AD
The threat at Ardea has been eliminated for now.

A-ha! Peter has SAM Infantry as evidenced by the interception of a Fighter.

Remember to look after your own back yard! :sad:

(screenshot failed - stack lands outside Mediolanum).

This sneak attack is destroyed thanks to a Tank stationed in nearby Essen. Workers are dispatched to rebuild the Farm, and a Battleship takes out the Galleon that delivered the stack.

The siege of Orenburg begins, and we take it with no losses...the SAM aren't going to be an issue.

TURN 4 - 1878AD
Inbetween turns a big stack of Cossacks attacks our units heading towards St. Petersburg...so much for him running out, but this did have a 'final push' feel about it. Their Artillery lost to our Tank, but the sheer numbers they had (and a lucky dice roll) meant that we lost a Tank to a Cossack. We also lost an Artillery and Infantry unit, but they lost a good number of Cossacks.

Scotland Yard is built in Lyons and we start a Spy (1 turn).

The siege of St. Petersburg begins and we take (and raze) it at the cost of 1 Artillery. Islam (as far as I can see) has been eliminated! Well done chaps, that's one of the variant biggies done and dusted! I found Velitrae 1 tile South of the ruins as it's a hill and easier to defend, plus instant access to food resources for growth. The surrounding Russian units were also killed at no loss.

Rommel was born in Antium. I think it'll be worthwhile creating another super-medic, so he's on his way to our military pick-up point.

We start the English religious conversion in earnest...Norwich is converted.

TURN 5 - 1879AD
The Russian counter-attack was 1 SAM Infantry...he lost. Our Battleships are making short work of his Ironclads.

Canterbury has culture-smothered Orenburg which was to be expected.

Velitrae is converted to Christianity.

I'm sending a few healthy units to Bryansk to flatten it, while the other units heal in Velitrae ready to be split for the march North to Moscow, and the other half to be transferred to Transports for coastal attacks.

I've discovered that Spies can't be airlifted, so she's making her way to the military pick-up point for transportation via the Ocean.

A GS is born in Rome...not sure what to do with him...join him to Rome or burn him for Beakers?

I'm stopping here for team talk because of this;

Panzers!

Freddy looks like he's gearing up for something...those Panzers look like they're targetting the Horses. Freddy will declare on Peter for the price of Flight...that'll take temptation away from him. I'm a bit worried as our border cities are protected by ancient units for the most part and the Panzer's will flatten them in a turn.

Thoughts?

mice · Jun 3, 2007

Freddy was friendly in the 1874 save. If he's still friendly I don't see him attacking. Maybe gift him horses.

JesusOnEez · Jun 3, 2007

Yes, he's still friendly, but I've had friendly people declare on me before...albeit someone like Monty.

I can't think of another reason he'd be piling Panzers on the border...

vra379971 · Jun 3, 2007

Stock pile bombers, we can only afford to fight defensively.

mice · Jun 3, 2007

I think he's just playing with his new panzers. I would.

Freddy attack at friendly? Nah.

All we can do anyway is leave the new units that are produced on this continent. We dont really need them over there to finish off Peter do we?

As Vra said, bombers should be coming in our prod cities. Just keep them on hand.

JesusOnEez · Jun 4, 2007

So the general consensus is that I'm paranoid then?

Right, I'll play my remaining five turns tonight...on YOUR heads be it if Freddy gets frisky!

frankcor · Jun 4, 2007

o/` o/` Don't worry ... be happy ... o/` o/`

JesusOnEez · Jun 4, 2007

TURN 5 - 1879AD (Cont...)
Simply for gloating purposes...

Only two more Holy Cities to be razed as well, Novgorod for Confucianism and London (!) for Buddhism.

TURN 6 - 1880AD
FREDDY DECLARES WAR AND FLATTENS THREE BORDER CITIES WITH PANZERS!!!

Not really. :lol:

Orleans finishes an Airport which will make for nice fast transportation of units...not that we'll need that many more.

Essen has created a Bomber, and will create more as a detterent (sp?) for Freddy. I also make this trade to ease my paranoia...

The siege of Bryansk starts! We win, no losses and I raze it.

I figure that razing cities bordering England would be the best best as culture will swamp them if we take them (as evidenced in Part 1). We can keep all the others, watching the domination limit. If we can time Domination to coincide with all cities being Christian, then that'd be perfect.

TURN 7 - 1881AD
Liverpool is converted.

Rommel is attached to a Marine as a super-medic, and loaded onto a Transport.

TURN 8 - 1882AD
Elizabeth asks for this...

She's pleased with us at the moment, so denying won't cause any problems. What would is if she decided on a Defensive Pact with Freddy, so I do deny her. She remains pleased so no harm done...hopefully we will have declared war on her before she researches it herself and the possibility of a DP with Freddy looks more realistic.

Rocketry has come in. The next tech is a toughy. We've burnt a GS on Computers, but it's still 16 turns away. In retrospect, saving him for a late game Golden Age would have been a better idea. I decide on Fascism for two reasons. First, Police State as war weariness is killing us. Second, a possible Permanent Alliance with Freddy to ease my paranoia again.

Units are (mostly) healed so a set about splitting the army. The navy is waiting for some Transports, and the army begins its land march!

TURN 9 - 1883AD
Dover is Christian.

Peter seems to be attacking Velitrae with one Cossack per turn. :rolleyes:

The navy is ready to rock!

There are plenty of reinforcements (Infantry mostly) in Velitrae for both the army and the navy.

The super-medic and spies are on their way to Velitrae.

TURN 10 - 1884AD
The siege of Yakutsk begins! Our Battleships and Destroyers knock defence down to 9%, but we lost a Marine to a Rifle at 88%. :mad:

That was our only loss and we take the city.

On the march to Moscow, the army uncovers a city in the fog. It's poorly defended, but has a Uranium resource that must be taken away from Russian hands. I didn't have enough movement points to take the city with any more than one unit, so I thinned the herd and the next player can take it.

JesusOnEez · Jun 4, 2007

Generally, I think we have enough units for the navy to sweep up the east coast of Russia, taking cities as it goes. Getting defending units to them without thinning the navy too much should be easy now we have airports on line. Note that I have left three units in Yakutsk that are not inside a boat for defence.

Defenders of taken cities could also come from Velitrae.

The army can deal with landlocked cities, again with reinforcements coming from Velitrae and airport cities.

ROOSTER
Mice - On Deck
Vra379971 -
Frankcor (Alternate 1) -
Jesusoneez - Just Played
Rince - Up

Cosmichail - Movers dropped his PC

JOE-05 - The Crusades

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