What is "incel"?
Jordan Peterson
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Lexicus
Deity
Incels (a portmanteau of "involuntary" and "celibacy") are members of an online subculture[1][2] who define themselves as being unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one, a state they describe as inceldom.[3] Self-identified incels are almost exclusively male and mostly heterosexual.[4][5] Discussions in incel forums are often characterized by resentment, misanthropy,[1] misogyny, racism, entitlement to sex, and the endorsement of violence against sexually active women and more sexually successful men.[4][6][7][8][9] The Southern Poverty Law Center has described the subculture as "part of the online male supremacist ecosystem",[10] and self-described incels have committed at least four mass murders in North America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
Synobun
Deity
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Nice Guy: Not to be confused with a nice guy (that is, a male that is nice)- When used as a noun instead of an adjective, Nice Guy refers to people (men or women) who believe basic social expectations are currency for sex.
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The second kind of nice guy is the one who has ulterior motives. He believes that because he behaves in a certain way the world owes him for his actions. He doesn't make it clear what he desires from the beginning and becomes angry when he doesn't get what he wants.
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A self declared nice guy however is usually a guy who will be nice to you and expect some sort of romantic or sexual reward.
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A badge of martyrdom. Men who spend their most of their time whining about how women “just want to date jerks”. Oblivious to the fact that no one finds peoplewho feel sorry for themselves attractive, much less people who blame others for their lack of success.
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They tend to befriend women with the expectation that women owe them something more than friendship.
He does seem to have some pull lately.
The nice thing about these self-help books is that you can get help from a psychologist without any of the truckload of social stigma that actually going to one would generate.
It costs about 10% of one therapy session too.
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sophie
Break My Heart
Looks like I will have to do some more research.
We've had a couple of threads on the topic in the past. Here's the one that immediately came to mind for me:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-to-get-a-date-because-youre-too-nice.486517/
That was funny Manfred
I don't agree with you, but whatever... that was a well placed quip.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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I think I'm long past trying to get people to agree with me, so I'll take that.
...and the grass was greener and the sky a deeper shade of blue, no doubt.
EDIT: I very much question the availability and/or validity of any data that could possible support such a sweeping claim.
This tends to be a common retort among Peterson-haters, no? Oh how the tables have turned.
Did you also read the actual memo that started all this crapstorm? I don't disagree with anything therein.
https://web.archive.org/web/2017080...naws.com/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf
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Good heavens, you can't expect to speak out against diversity practices at work and expect to remain employed.
Did he actually believe that all viewpoints were welcome or that people wanted a dialog?
That's meant for academics.
Actually no, there are $100,000 a year diversity officers at most colleges handling those decisions now.
As a white male, his opinion just does not have much weight on the subject.
Also, I wish to praise Google for removing "Don't be evil" from their corporate code of conduct 3 weeks ago.
The word "evil" is simply too religious and always clashed with their principled stand never to recognize Christian's Easter with a doodle after the year 2000.
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Lexicus
Deity
Oh, good to know that you're a gross sexist too.
I mean, this but unironically? Google is not paying people to debate their policies...
Senethro
Overlord
"What if the racists and sexists were right all along?" isn't exactly useful or even particularly original input.
I'm a straight white male, what did you expect?
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Thanks for the link. I was going to look for this later as I heard a lot about it at the time, but never read it.
It's not quite as non-inflammatory as he made it out to be in some of the interviews he gave...
To be fair I think it actually was in this case. From what I recall he posted this up in response to a general request for feedback, but I don't remember the details.
You're welcome. I never read it before either.
Out of curiosity, which parts do you think are inflammatory?
I obviously can't know whether his assessments about Google company culture are correct or not, but I didn't see anything really controversial in his general position.
Google also fired Tim Chevalier for posting things like:
"I support punching Nazis"
"White boys expect privilege..."
And criticizing Republicans for affiliating themselves with torch bearing white power marchers in Charlottesville.
That is advocating violence against political opponents, using an insensitive phrase, and perpetuating harmful stereotypes respectively.
James Damore was fired for perpetuating harmful stereotypes of women saying they were "more prone to anxiety and less able to tolerate stress" than men.
So both the supporters and opponents of Google's diversity efforts were punished equally if they violated the code of conduct.
"I support punching Nazis"
"White boys expect privilege..."
And criticizing Republicans for affiliating themselves with torch bearing white power marchers in Charlottesville.
That is advocating violence against political opponents, using an insensitive phrase, and perpetuating harmful stereotypes respectively.
James Damore was fired for perpetuating harmful stereotypes of women saying they were "more prone to anxiety and less able to tolerate stress" than men.
So both the supporters and opponents of Google's diversity efforts were punished equally if they violated the code of conduct.
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I would not be at all surprised if James Damore was simply an incompetent employee who lied about his education on his resume, and his supervisors were already looking for an excuse to get rid of him. And I agree that it is ironic that libertarians and business-oriented conservatives will see injustices and file lawsuits when they are fired for expressing their opinions, even though they normally argue that businesses should have the right to hire and fire employees at will.
Still, though, his memo is mostly factually accurate. Men and women do have substantial average differences in personality traits. Studies which give men and women the most commonly used personality test in psychology, the five-factor model (aka Big Five personality traits), typically find differences in two of these traits - namely agreeableness (tendency to cooperate rather than compete) and neuroticism (susceptibility to negative emotions like anxiety and depression). Women have higher averages in both traits, by around 0.5 standard deviations; the former is a partial explanation for the wage gap, while the latter is evident in higher rates of depression and anxiety among women. Another trait, openness to new experiences, has a similar average but shows differences when you examine it more closely: men have higher curiosity/openness towards things and abstract concepts, women towards people and their experiences.
All of these are well supported in the psychological literature - as well supported as anything is in psychology. Whether they're biological or cultural is open to debate, but most do appear to some extent or another across cultures. Average personality differences likely are part of the reason for the underrepresentation of women in computing and engineering, along with the overrepresentation of women in the social sciences and increasingly biology and several fields of medicine. And, to Damore's credit, he does suggest ways to increase the number of women and improve their working conditions.
But yeah, trying to criticize diversity initiatives is just a stupid idea. And Google's race and sex ratios are skewed more than we would expect, so it's quite reasonable for them to try to reduce this skew any way they can. I don't think having some sort of affirmative action should be considered discrimination the way Damore does.
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