Jotnar: Balance Discussion Thread

[WarKirby]

Archers are hardly something unique to the scions. If you want to play an archer strategy, go austrin or ljosalfar.

 

[Iceciro]

Ljosofar archers are insane.
For the Scions, he means the blackblood promo, which, like most equipment, I find rather "ehhh".

 

[WarKirby]

I'd hardly call ljosalfar archers insane. Ranged attacks do still have limits. Like onl hitting one target, and being unable to kill in most cases.

What do the blackblood arrows do, again?

 

[Tarquelne]

What do the blackblood arrows do, again?

Piercing putrescent pig parts producing poison.

 

[kenken244]

I found it annoying when spirit guide on one of my giants was passed to a thrall. Would it be possible to ban thralls from receiving spirit guide?

 

[WarKirby]

I found it annoying when spirit guide on one of my giants was passed to a thrall. Would it be possible to ban thralls from receiving spirit guide?

I second this notion

Since you're generally going to have so many more thralls, the chance of SG passing to a giant is actually quite low.

 

[Lemminkäinen]

OK, without the thrall upkeep and with Father my economy shot through the roof once I got to Festivals. Would Industrial fit better as a trait than Financial for Mother and Father. It would solve the problems Jotnar have with building Wonders and would lessen their uber economy somewhat. And it seems fitting. Philosophical Industrial is a powerful combo, though, but I don't think it's over the top in FF/FFH.

Arcane is a pretty lackluster trait for Jotnar, btw, as Skalds are usually upgraded from rather experienced Citizens and they have enough to get XP all in all far easier than other caster types.

Is there a reason why Jotnar can't build Gibbon Goetia but can build other religious heroes (as well as Vicars, but I suppose that's a bug)?

 

[Darksaber1]

They also can't build Mardero.

 

[WarKirby]

they really should be able to make all religious heroes.

 

[BenjaminEmbarec]

I think they should keep being able to make Fawns. <.< >.> It seems to fit them somehow since they are allready "Creatures of nature." To be honest, I think they need to be limited to RoK and FoL, give them a unique RoK line, and allow the FoL line to be built... Perhaps replacing the middle-level with Speakers but keep the high priests? Or make it so that if a city has both, they COUNT as both religions at once, but they can't build EITHER priest line, just the Soldiers and fawn/satyrs, and pooooossibly heros? Just throwing out ideas.

 

[TitanZ]

I'm finding the Jotnar fairly overpowered in my first playthrough. Playing on Monarch,with Mother, I am stuck on a large island with the Balseraph. They spread quickly and soon had 3/4 of the island. I chose to keep a close knit group of 8 cities that were completely developed by the copious amounts of Jotnar citizens I received.

Early on production was rather limited. I tried racing for RoK, but Luchuirp beat me to it. Already had a kingdom of mines, but no copper, so I went for Arete and Mines of Gal-Dur. Production time started at 72 turns in my capital on MoGD and a quick peek in Worldbuilder showed the dwarves had a sizable head start. So, I went nuts building Thralls in every city, every turn, and sacrificed them in the capital, completing MoGD in around 30 turns. Got Iron Working and Bambur shortly thereafter.

Then a few huge stack of Freaks starts nosing around my borders. I had basically no military whatsoever, but The Founder, a non-upgraded Bambur, a couple Wild Trolls, Thralls, and experienced citizens galore. The AI thought they would have a cake walk. Little did they know those citizens would turn into upgraded, regenerating 6/5 Wild Trolls (very cheaply I might add) that would tear through their expansive realm in no time. Keelyn practically begged me to stop.

I'm interested in seeing what will happen in a new game with more aggressive neighbors or an early Orthus/barbarian onslaught.

 

[Valkrionn]

I do think the AI needs to recognize Jotnar Citizens as the threat they are, otherwise they're going to kill themselves trying to kill you.

 

[kenken244]

Yes, the power ratings are way off. they consider all of your units to be the same strength as the units they replace, and the age promotions have no effect whatsoever.

 

[Vernacular]

I really like the Jotnar, they're my new favourite race. I do have a few suggestions-

1)Allow the Jotnar to build all of the religiou heroes. They are too useful to not have, and having only one hero tends to ****** them on higher levels.

2) Allow them to build disciples. Even if they can only build the first teir, spreading your religion needs some help.

3) Decrease upgrade csts for Skald. They require 176 gold. This is not much in the long run, but if you want an appreciable amount of mages, you need too much money.

 

[WarKirby]

I'd personally like to see Jotnar Workers available as a Citizen upgrade option.
an ideal pricepoint would be 30-50 gold, I think.

 

[xienwolf]

We have tags to let promotions affect the power rating. Most all of the FF promotions do so. If the age ones don't include a significant value in the iPower and iAsset fields, then that is an oversight/misunderstanding which needs fixing

 

[Vehem]

Yes, the power ratings are way off. they consider all of your units to be the same strength as the units they replace, and the age promotions have no effect whatsoever.

We have tags to let promotions affect the power rating. Most all of the FF promotions do so. If the age ones don't include a significant value in the iPower and iAsset fields, then that is an oversight/misunderstanding which needs fixing

What Xien said

I'm looking at tidying up the XML (quite a lot of it was mis-indented or had the blank fields that we typically strip out in UnitInfos/PromotionInfos, then addressing some of the other concerns raised on the boards, then adding some more appropriate power/asset ratings to units/promotions.

 

[VSPavlov]

I really like the Jotnar, they're my new favourite race. I do have a few suggestions-

1)Allow the Jotnar to build all of the religiou heroes. They are too useful to not have, and having only one hero tends to ****** them on higher levels.

Well, anyway, having only some of the religious heroes is illogical, and it gives even more benefits to choosing Runes of Kilmorph (since you can build both Bambur and Arthendain). Maybe, allow all except Sphener and Mardero?

2) Allow them to build disciples. Even if they can only build the first teir, spreading your religion needs some help.

I disagree here. Mouths of Divine are cool, and they completely do the trick.

3) Decrease upgrade csts for Skald. They require 176 gold. This is not much in the long run, but if you want an appreciable amount of mages, you need too much money.

Wielders of Arms are even more expensive.
Maybe, one of the leaders can receive Ingenuity in exchange for some other trait?

 

[WarKirby]

I'd really love a Fin/Ing leader for the Jotnar

 

[Arctic Circle]

Basically about Heroes. I was intending for Jotnar to have all religions, all religious heroes but no religious units whatsoever.