Jotnar: Balance Discussion Thread

[Breez]

yeah... I think of Thralls as Gully Dwarfs...

Attack with them at your own peril. That is NOT what they are for =D

 

[WarKirby]

What did you expect attacking a fortified position with a troop that's about 12% of the enemy's strength?

 

[Iceciro]

It's the fact that it has a first strike that's the real killer for allowing you to not do any sort of damage with a stupid-huge pile of poor quality units. It kills the Thrall in the first round of combat and isn't even scarred.

 

[Quetz]

thralls + shadow mana...?

 

[Iceciro]

Still probabaly need a lot of them, but really, what else are you doing with your cities?

 

[WarKirby]

what else are you doing with your cities?

Wealth

10char

 

[WarKirby]

What the...
Just started up a new jotnar game in PAtch N.

Settlers are OVER 300 GOLD NOW.

How am I ever supposed to expand? it took forever to save up for one settler in the beginning.

 

[Valkrionn]

Can't you still BUILD settlers?

 

[Haerzog]

I am still unhappy, i mean come on. A single troupe of archers holding off how many thousands of little piddling puds? I dont think goblins would be able to fortify well enough to keep out thousands of peons, especially if those peons come on in a continuous wave. Remember the Elfstones of Shannara?

 

[Tarquelne]

I am still unhappy, i mean come on. A single troupe of archers holding off how many thousands of little piddling puds? I dont think goblins would be able to fortify well enough to keep out thousands of peons, especially if those peons come on in a continuous wave. Remember the Elfstones of Shannara?

When the Civ4 combat is updated to the point it can handle military realism on par with the Elfstones I'm sure that'll be fixed. There are tweaks that can be made to make low-level units more effective en mass, but the basic problem is that Civ4 just isn't a wargame. (Or, if it is, it's a *terrible* wargame.) And FFH2 even exaggerates some of the non-realistic elements.

On the bright side, it's a heck of a lot better than Civ1 in that respect. (And DCM is impressive.)

 

[Haerzog]

what is DCM?

 

[Valkrionn]

Dale's Combat Mod, I believe.

 

[Tarquelne]

Dale's Combat Mod, I believe.

Yep. A much greater improvement to Civ4's combat than I thought possible or likely. And now packaged with Revolution!

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Has there been thought of incorporating Dale's mod into FF? Too hard?


Also...it would be cool if Jotnar could work mountains, since they have such an easy time getting around on them. How would I make that possible?

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, we know it's possible to work mountains, and that Xienwolf apparently removed a block on it, so it shouldn't be too difficult. Not sure where to add the yields however.... Personally, I'd love for the Jotnar to be able to work mountains.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Well, we know it's possible to work mountains, and that Xienwolf apparently removed a block on it, so it shouldn't be too difficult. Not sure where to add the yields however.... Personally, I'd love for the Jotnar to be able to work mountains.

Yeah, I assumed the yields would all be in the terrain xml files...but I've had no luck finding them.

 

[Valkrionn]

One thing the Jotnar are missing is flavour info for the FlavourStart option. What would you suggest?

I've been using this:

pCivFlavourInfo = CivFlavourInfo("CIVILIZATION_JOTNAR")
pCivFlavourInfo.addPreference("TERRAIN_PLAINS", 2)
pCivFlavourInfo.addPreference("PLOT_HILLS", 3)
pCivFlavourInfo.changeSearchAreaSize(-1)
civFlavourInfos[pCivFlavourInfo.civ] = pCivFlavourInfo

I'd like to add a preference for Mountains but I'm not sure if it's possible or not.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

One thing the Jotnar are missing is flavour info for the FlavourStart option. What would you suggest?

I've been using this:

pCivFlavourInfo = CivFlavourInfo("CIVILIZATION_JOTNAR")
pCivFlavourInfo.addPreference("TERRAIN_PLAINS", 2)
pCivFlavourInfo.addPreference("PLOT_HILLS", 3)
pCivFlavourInfo.changeSearchAreaSize(-1)
civFlavourInfos[pCivFlavourInfo.civ] = pCivFlavourInfo

I'd like to add a preference for Mountains but I'm not sure if it's possible or not.

Is it possible to weight a preference for rivers? If not, I'd say weighting hills, plains, and mountains(if we can make them workable) is exactly right.

 

[Valkrionn]

There is, just add pCivFlavourInfo.addPreference("RIVERSIDE", 2).

I didn't add it because I play ErebusContinent maps... Plenty of rivers as is.

 

[WarKirby]

Settlers can be buil1t yes, although 250 is a bit more than other civs, and jotnar cities don't tend to do so well on production

with the new cost, expanding is incredibly slow. The entire game seems to be just about saving up for the next settler. It's kind of a drudge.

why so high?



Also, on the subject of mountain yields. If anyone's going to be working them, it should be the Khazad. I'd love to see them able to build a "Deep Mine" in a mountain, which gives +5 but no food or commerce.

Jotnar woing them would be nice too, I suppose. Although I find it a bit silly in general, that the jotnar can even build mines. How do they fit in those cramped tunnels? You can't just build mines to giant scale. The earth wouldn't take it, and would just collapse in on itself

Mostly as a flavour thing, I think it would be apt for the Jotnar to be unable to build mines, but get a special version of a quarry instead, that harnessews the same resources, and gives the same output. Essentially just an open-cast mine