Judge Mowat comments: Is it impossible to have a proper discussion on rape?
- Thread starter PhroX
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useless
Social Justice Rogue
[Citation needed]
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Hmm. The last time I gave you a citation you ignored it.
Sure. If you cannot legally consent, you cannot legally consent. Is there some level of drunkeness I should shoot for that would allow me to have sex with someone who cannot consent?
The law allows a workaround on any social disruptions, where we need an accuser to move forwards. Because of this, either partner can easily retroactively grant their okay once they sober up.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
I didn't actually, so cite where rape convictions are higher then other crimes.
I'd really like to know if y'all think this song is about rape or about a lady having a grand time the night before. Lyrics in spoiler in case you don't want to listen to the song.
Link to video.
Link to video.
Spoiler :
Mise
isle of lucy
It's still astonishingly low. Are you really going to nitpick on this?
Akka
Moody old mage.
I find this definition lacking. Rape is a sexual assault, which needs to be initiated against someone without his/her consent.
I don't think that it's logically possible to have two people raping each other. Seems an absurdity to me.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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Such are the absurdities that you must get in a system where yes can sometimes means "nope, don't do it." Given the nature of this world it would be a wrongness to fail to recognize that indeed, yes can sometimes need to be "nope, don't do it."
Akka
Moody old mage.
I'm afraid you've lost me here
No. We don't care at all.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
And what if i ruled an area of land stretching between the euphrates and the Caspian sea? Thats also an equally relevant question.
Mise
isle of lucy
They're not both rapists. To be a rapist, you have to have been convicted of rape. Nobody has been convicted of rape. Neither are rapists. Innocent until proven guilty...
Something that would fit the legal definition of rape if it was established as such in court has occurred. But without going to court and establishing the facts, no rape has occurred in law. And without a conviction, nobody is a rapist.
We still don't care. No one says you cannot retroactively consent. Especially in a social context.
Sure, they may have broken a law, but it's not a moral condemnation.
Look, there's a serious issue in society where women are plied with drinks and then molested. There's no easy workaround.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Based on the 4 pages of replies, I will answer "No" to the thread title.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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I'm afraid you've lost me here
I'm recalling a fairly in-depth conversation I had with a cool Chinese girl while I was visiting for a week for one of my friends getting married. While the Chinese definitely have laws it's much farther on the "nation of custom" scale than Western society is accustomed to. It also happens to be much more patriarchal, but that linked rather than directly on-point. She was relatively aghast by the concept of strict liability statutory rape laws, especially coupled with the much higher legal age of consent US states tend to dictate than Chinese custom tends to enforce. The concept that a 16 year old can say "yes, do me, do me hard I love it" to a 20 year old and have that 20 year old very hosed in a legal sense should this come to the attention of the authorities seemed very unfair to her. Especially the part where it doesn't matter if the 16 year old lied about his or her age. You know what? It is unfair in some ways, but I don't know that I would scrap statutory rape laws. I might be inclined to make sure that the strict liability part had some bends in it.
Perhaps more on point, what if you know somebody has been slipped a lot of hard drugs and they aren't functioning properly? They might say yes, they might even initiate, but "no" might be the only proper answer. Same with an 18 year old high school student and their teacher. Yes can more properly mean no.
Akka
Moody old mage.
I agree with you here, but I'm still at a loss about the link with what I said.
Unless you meant that yes it's absurd in some way, but it's the price to pay to have functionning rape laws ?
Unless you meant that yes it's absurd in some way, but it's the price to pay to have functionning rape laws ?
But sometimes the consent doesn't matter anyway, right? I'd like to see the result of the court case where two people get drunk, whip each other, then have sex. (You call it an absurd hypothetical, I call it a Friday night.) Assault? Rape? Abuse of prosecutorial discretion? Who knows? Would it help if they're both 16? How bout if they took pictures?
*sigh*
It's hard to believe that any human beings still don't get "unwanted sexual contact is bad" but besides repeatedly making that point I'm not certain what is likely to reduce the frequency of the crime.
*sigh*
It's hard to believe that any human beings still don't get "unwanted sexual contact is bad" but besides repeatedly making that point I'm not certain what is likely to reduce the frequency of the crime.
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