June/July Patch Notes

[thadian]

the question is, with the easy route gone, what strategy will replace it? Will they make the game harder only by killing every easy road or will normal strategies that don't exploit game mechanics become viable on tougher difficulties?

I hope i am forced to make different decisions but i also hope i have the gold and happiness to make those decisions with, which means relearning the game which i don't mind doing as long as there are ways to win other than "i have to get NC or i will tech behind, i can't build this, this, this or this because of maintenance and the AI will stomp-war me for not having enough units etc. i look forward to less linear play with a more engaging experience.

 

[thadian]

Technology
Reduced cost of Calendar, Civil Service, Iron Working, Gunpowder, Rifling and Dynamite.

I hope this doesn't cause too fast of an early game. As is, by the time i get 7 troops most of them are probably obselete or soon to be without ever having the chance to enjoy using them.

I like middle era+ techs taking more beakers but with the astronomical beakers per turn you can get on prince/king and sometimes emperor everything takes 4 turns to research. I hope this will in some way normalize the mid-game areas to compensate taking away some of the easy tickets.

I also like Hiawatha's changes and i will be trying him because i believe it will be better. a civ for those who don't want iron dependancy.

 

[Jaybe]

I hope this doesn't cause too fast of an early game. As is, by the time i get 7 troops most of them are probably obselete or soon to be without ever having the chance to enjoy using them.

That's what epic/marathon speed games are for.

 

[Celevin]

That's what epic/marathon speed games are for.

He's talking unit production VS time it takes to research a tech though. I stopped playing Marathon in the fall because I'd get maybe a small handful of units before the Classical age was coming to an end.

 

[Randall Turner]

Jaybe's correct, though - Marathon slows down the tech rate, lets you play with your guys for a while before they go obsolete.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I hope this doesn't cause too fast of an early game. As is, by the time i get 7 troops most of them are probably obselete or soon to be without ever having the chance to enjoy using them.

Nothing to worry about; all that does is bring those techs in line with the other techs in that level. You're talking about 260 total prior to the Renaissance on standard speed, which basically equates to the cost of an early Medieval tech.

The Gunpowder and Rifling changes are hardly noticeable (another total 250 right now), and even the Dynamite change is still about 1/6 of the cost of a first-tier Industrial tech.

The only real differences are that Iron will come a couple of turns earlier and Civil Service can reasonably be hard teched rather than RA'd/bulbed.

 

[Horizons]

I will wait to be proved wrong but it seems like the devs dropped the ball on this patch.

If so, I am quitting Civ5. Getting totally, completely fed up with MASSIVE rebalancing changes in every single patch.

Just one example: meritocracy was originally +1 happiness per connection ... and now it's come full circle. I mean, WTH?

It's getting ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm out. A new resource - stone - and a couple of minor tactical AI bugs fixed (like the AI building just one city - LOL) aren't enough to captivate me.

 

[Tavelon]

I love everything except for some of their changes to the wonders. The changes to the UAs are fantastic though.

 

[thadian]

yes, im refering to the rate of unit production vs the rate of research to its improved version and how many units/turns of those units you get - I don't nessacarily want a slower game, just less of a removal of the early eras.

Also, i can usually hard tech civil service anyway with NC start or by using 3 cities + library in each. because of stupid AI erratic wars of late, that open no longer functions, so i don't know anything but NC and by the time i get pottery, writing, mining, and animal husbandry.

If marble masonry if not archery and archery next no matter what anyway. By that time, i research mathmatics and it seems like i have the science to research Civil Service in 8-12 turns or so, sometimes lower if i hit a good golden age and don't get pillaged.

so it will be a really easy, nessacary thing to do very early. that means using more time, gold and hammers to buildings while being a little bit smarter not to waste units. i see a lot of sandbag or stalemate wars and long-term "cold wars" (as i have seen them called in another post) but i don't mind that.

I just hope it doesn't take modders too long to revise their mods.

 

[evahaut]

I just have to express my feelings concerning this patch. It all seems exciting and it looks like things are being balanced for the better, but I do feel sorry for all the efforts made on the civfanatics website.. mainly them existing strategy guides that can now be thrown into the garbage bin.
Looks like this patch is going to be a new game all together, what passed was just beta..

 

[black213]

Marble wonder production mod reduced to 15%.
Aristocracy now provides +15% Production when building Wonders down from 20%.


In my opinion, Marble and Aristocracy don't need to be nerfed furthermore, making them useless except when combined (+ Egypt's UA).
Instead, Egypt's UA could be buffed for a bit, making it more unique without nerfing other civilization's ways to improve their wonder building. Such as 25% production towards wonders would be fine for Egypt to have.
Or keep Egypt's 20% production but add something more to it's UA, but something minor as 20% production towards wonders can do wonders (oh I'm so sneaky)

 

[elprofesor]

I'd advocate for Egypt: "+20% production towards building wonders. Wonders give +100% Great People Points and +2 culture". Now if only I could mod...
And about its poor UU, the problem isn't really its bonus (+1 move, doesn't need horses), which is fine, but the base unit itself, which is so niche that there's hardly a reason to build it, especially since the ancient era ends so soon. The most obvious fix to the unit would be to add the ability to move after attacking, but after seing the devastating power of keshiks, that may overpower them

 

[code9]

Why are they making changes this big so long after the release of the game? It's like each few games I play, I have to learn to play again. If we wanted so many changes, we'd play the mods. Please finalize the gameplay design once and for all and focus on improving AI. Thanks!

 

[Schalke 04]

I like these constant changes.

Pay for one game, and play many

And it's never bad to be forced to rethink a strategy.

 

[seasnake]

Why are they making changes this big so long after the release of the game? It's like each few games I play, I have to learn to play again. If we wanted so many changes, we'd play the mods. Please finalize the gameplay design once and for all and focus on improving AI. Thanks!

Because some things need fixing. I'd rather they fix stuff and make a new game than leave it in sub-optimal state.

I also hope that we get a few extra patch notes.

 

[kazapp]

For good or for Ill, this is a completely new game.

Does this mean it is finally good enough for somebody like me, who have held off completely buying/playing Civ V?

 

[eric_]

Does this mean it is finally good enough for somebody like me

You'd probably have to ask somebody like you who has played the game...

 

[GenjiKhan]

I wonder if they could buff Citadel in this game now,since it's the only gp Improvement that doesn't improve the tile. If they buff Citadel,I'd like to see a bonus like +1,+1,+1 and +2 . Is there a chance of this buff in this patch or even in this game?

 

[Agent Cooper]

Does this mean it is finally good enough for somebody like me, who have held off completely buying/playing Civ V?

That would certainly depend on why you chose not to buy/play the game in the first place.

 

[elprofesor]

Does this mean it is finally good enough for somebody like me, who have held off completely buying/playing Civ V?

You'll have to wait until a month or so after this patch, and you will know if it's balanced enough. If it is, and if you haven't been holding off because of the multiplayer, I'd say you can buy it.
I think we will have at least one or two more "game changing" patches (wonders, UAs, later renaissance and naval warfare...), but if no major unbalance reveals itself after this one, it will be the solid game you were waiting for. My two cents.