June/July Patch Notes

[thadian]

from my experience, arrow units were never good enough to damage a city substantially but i do shoot them anyway just for the exp. you can level units up a LOT actually, on those desert size 2-3 AI cities without defenders.

 

[MadDjinn]

from my experience, arrow units were never good enough to damage a city substantially but i do shoot them anyway just for the exp. you can level units up a LOT actually, on those desert size 2-3 AI cities without defenders.

it's all about volume 10 shots a turn will still tear a cities defenses down reasonable fast.

 

[Txurce]

it's all about volume 10 shots a turn will still tear a cities defenses down reasonable fast.

Exactly. 4-move, 7-range chariots en masse are brutal - and require little screening.

 

[Agent Cooper]

Never mind the values - if you trade a luxury instead of selling it, you gain happiness instead of gold. It was a bad strategy before because you were better off with the gold. Now, not so much.

How I would have loved if the developers had taken this opportunity to re-work the trade system. As suggested, a luxury-gold trade with a friendly civ should not automatically give you 300g etc. It's such a rigid and boring system.

A player should be able shop around and check what the AI civs would bid for a resource and then determine if the highest bid is worth the drop in happiness. You could also introduce auctions with civs selling a resource to the highest bidder. But of course something as advanced as this, would actually demand something the AI is just not capable of at this time.

 

[Txurce]

How I would have loved if the developers had taken this opportunity to re-work the trade system. As suggested, a luxury-gold trade with a friendly civ should not automatically give you 300g etc. It's such a rigid and boring system.

A player should be able shop around and check what the AI civs would bid for a resource and then determine if the highest bid is worth the drop in happiness. You could also introduce auctions with civs selling a resource to the highest bidder. But of course something as advanced as this, would actually demand something the AI is just not capable of at this time.

Absolutely. It may not be outside the range of feasibility down the road - more likely in a special edition.

 

[Agent Cooper]

Absolutely. It may not be outside the range of feasibility down the road - more likely in a special edition.

Civ 6 ?

 

[thadian]

chariots to me says ghandi written all over it, perhaps i shouldn't continue to overlook him as a weaker civ.

 

[MadDjinn]

Exactly. 4-move, 7-range chariots en masse are brutal - and require little screening.

they don't have 7 'range'.

7 ranged attack, sure.

But here's your problem: 1 warrior kills 1 chariot archer dead. Never mind what a single horseman can do every turn by stationing itself inside the city; or in rough terrain.

chariot archers don't have 'move after shooting', they suck on defense and can't move or shoot after going into rough terrain. that's why they suck.

(UU's excepted are Ghandi's elephants only)

 

[Txurce]

they don't have 7 'range'.

7 ranged attack, sure.

But here's your problem: 1 warrior kills 1 chariot archer dead. Never mind what a single horseman can do every turn by stationing itself inside the city; or in rough terrain.

chariot archers don't have 'move after shooting', they suck on defense and can't move or shoot after going into rough terrain. that's why they suck.

(UU's excepted are Ghandi's elephants only)

In theory warriors and horsemen are death to chariots, but warriors are easily avoided, and AI horsemen not that common.

However, I'm used to playing with them on TBC, where they have the 4 move and 7 attack range, but also move-after-shoot. If the new patch won't give that, they're not as valuable... but still much more useful than archers, especially when upgrading to knights.

 

[thadian]

i dont like any of the ranged non-siege units much it deprives from game experience that they upgrade to melee units instead of grenadiers/mortars.

my punishment for using archery and investing the time into developing 4 promotions is losing 3 of them to keep the unit modern.

crossbow/longbow comes close enough to muskets by the time i have 3 built i can build muskets instead and obseletion is right around the corner.

 

[Civsassin]

i dont like any of the ranged non-siege units much it deprives from game experience that they upgrade to melee units instead of grenadiers/mortars.

my punishment for using archery and investing the time into developing 4 promotions is losing 3 of them to keep the unit modern.

crossbow/longbow comes close enough to muskets by the time i have 3 built i can build muskets instead and obseletion is right around the corner.

I agree with you. If you could promote longbows into a superior ranged unit, they could be awesome in the late game, particularly as city defenders. Poor promotions is one reason I typically stay away from crossbows.

 

[Agent Cooper]

I agree with you. If you could promote longbows into a superior ranged unit, they could be awesome in the late game, particularly as city defenders. Poor promotions is one reason I typically stay away from crossbows.

Snipers!

 

[CMKMStephens]

I agree with you. If you could promote longbows into a superior ranged unit, they could be awesome in the late game, particularly as city defenders. Poor promotions is one reason I typically stay away from crossbows.

Haha, I've often beelined to get crossbows. They can be pretty devastating if you have just four of them with the +1 range and 2 attacks per turn promotions - up to 8 attacks and out of range for retaliation. Sweeps the field in front of the melee and siege units for taking cities.

It's rubbish though that they lose the range (and the use of promotions) if you upgrade them. I've had crossbowmen with 300-400 exp still being somewhat useful in the industrial age picking off riflemen from afar, having not upgraded them.

 

[Civsassin]

Snipers!

Bingo.

 

[Civsassin]

Haha, I've often beelined to get crossbows. They can be pretty devastating if you have just four of them with the +1 range and 2 attacks per turn promotions - up to 8 attacks and out of range for retaliation. Sweeps the field in front of the melee and siege units for taking cities.

It's rubbish though that they lose the range (and the use of promotions) if you upgrade them. I've had crossbowmen with 300-400 exp still being somewhat useful in the industrial age picking off riflemen from afar, having not upgraded them.

I've trained them before; they're OK IMO. It's the loss of ranged promotions when they become rifles that I really don't like. Perhaps the Firaxis gang will listen to us in a future mod/patch.

 

[ColinTH]

Yep, that makes sense. That makes it a race to Theology though, which is going to be tough too. (Beating the AI to Hagia Sophia.)

Edit: already missing my Meritocracy engineer.

My latest Marathon game I missed out on the Hagia Sofia, it was built in 960 BC. In the same game the Hanging Gardens was built in 2390 BC (111 turns), from the outset it takes 175 turns to research Mathematics, obviously this reduces as your City grows, but not enough to get there in the alloted time, you would need some help from ruins!

 

[GenjiKhan]

My latest Marathon game I missed out on the Hagia Sofia, it was built in 960 BC. In the same game the Hanging Gardens was built in 2390 BC (111 turns), from the outset it takes 175 turns to research Mathematics, obviously this reduces as your City grows, but not enough to get there in the alloted time, you would need some help from ruins!

Don't forget that Marathon game is VERY different from a standard game for many reasons. I hope they explain what kind of buff Hanging Gardens receives,b/c the way it is understood, it'll become the most powerful wonder in Civilization.

 

[Nyanko]

Snipers!

As fun as snipers are, I would think something like a mortar crew would be a better option for an upgrade of the ranged class of units. But yeah, its something that annoys me all the time, why there isnt a continuation of the ranged group. I'd love to see something replace them sometime in the future

 

[ColinTH]

Don't forget that Marathon game is VERY different from a standard game for many reasons. I hope they explain what kind of buff Hanging Gardens receives,b/c the way it is understood, it'll become the most powerful wonder in Civilization.

Yeah, i'm thinking Hanging Gardens, Hagia Sofia and Porcelain Tower. The trouble is if you do go for HG which you will probably miss out on, then you don't stand a chance of getting the other two!

 

[vexing]

chariot archers don't have 'move after shooting', they suck on defense and can't move or shoot after going into rough terrain. that's why they suck.

so much hate for chariot archers. if only there were some way you could put units in front of them so they can't be attacked directly by melee units

the going into rough terrain penalty is overemphasized. consider that any standard 2 move unit (such as say an archer or catapult) going into rough terrain also can't do anything afterward.