utahjazz7
Deity
Hey, Dom, check your PM's.
Kal-el's Unit Concept Sketches
- Thread starter Kal-el
- Start date
Hey, Dom, check your PM's.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
utah, 
Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Unfortunately, as I said before, I can't really do a jaguar warrior because I don't have a costume nor am I skilled enough with other 3D modeling programs to make one. Poser is kind of like an assembly plant, but you have to already have the parts.
BUUTT, I can always try....
Now that's the spirit!
-- Besides (as I'm sure we all have) I've been observing various camo patterns on the news, and it wouldn't surprise me if the jaguar pattern ultimately evolved into the MesoAmerican MODERN camo pattern (hint, hint ... 
)-Oz
Kal-el
Deity
Here is my Egyptian Pikeman. I tried to make them a little more heavily armored than the rest of the units since these will be mainline defenders.
Kal-el
Deity
And now on to the Zulus.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
[dance] Zulus!
You making any striped horses?
You making any striped horses?
Kal-el
Deity
Yes, I will give their Horse for the Horseman war paint in the form of zebra stripes, and for their Knight replacement maybe some barding made of zebra leather.
Though, the question I have is what is the natural range of the Zebra? Would they be an animal that the Zulu are likely to encounter? Or are we looking at these Zulu units as representing all Subsaharan cultures. I lean toward the latter right now, but could be convinced otherwise, but in that case we would need separate Mali/Songhai and Abbysinian/Ethiopian units as well.
Though, the question I have is what is the natural range of the Zebra? Would they be an animal that the Zulu are likely to encounter? Or are we looking at these Zulu units as representing all Subsaharan cultures. I lean toward the latter right now, but could be convinced otherwise, but in that case we would need separate Mali/Songhai and Abbysinian/Ethiopian units as well.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
I'm fully in favor of Mali being a civilization with its own UUs... I am, however, convinced that we need to deal with the current civilizations before we can really move on to anything else. But, nonetheless, having the concept art is good because then when we DO get around to it, we already know what to make.
EDIT: Also, while the Zulu empire itself probably only just barely included zebra-filled areas, the Zulu people came from earlier tribes in the north who most certainly would have encountered zebras.
Zebra distribution:
Personally, the Zulu are the most famous African empire, but in total, they really aren't the best ones to be in the game as they are also one of the shortest-lived.
EDIT: Also, while the Zulu empire itself probably only just barely included zebra-filled areas, the Zulu people came from earlier tribes in the north who most certainly would have encountered zebras.
Zebra distribution:
Personally, the Zulu are the most famous African empire, but in total, they really aren't the best ones to be in the game as they are also one of the shortest-lived.
Kal-el
Deity
thanks for the Zebra distribution graphic. I am leaning towards making these Zulu units an amalgamation of several tribes, Specifically the Masai of Kenya and the Azandi from the Congo along with the Zulu.
Redking
Prince
regarding the Zulu:
Shaka Zulu amalgamated and absorbed many confederate bantu-speaking tribes.
The Zulu and their ethnic cohorts are representative of the great bantu-speaking push out of central Africa. And in this they are much like the Celts, Germans, Mongols, or any other number of massive ethnic migrations throughout history.
Much of subSaharan Africa has a bantu-speaking component. It's a huge linguistic/cultural grouping. And in the game, the Zulus represent more than just Shaka's revolution, just as the Celts represent more than just the Gauls or Irish.
Abyssinia/Ethiopia is a much different ethnic entity, as is Mali. The first is soundly a part of the Hamito-Semitic world, not just linguistically, but historically and culturally. Those are biblical places, after all. Mali, IIRC, is a part of the subSaharan Niger-Congo matrix, the population that held the Sahul between the Sahara and the Congo basin. And so, they're pretty distinct from the Bantu/Zulu. The trade routes into Mali were known to the ancient mediterraneans, and like Ethiopia stood at the periphery of the classical world, but not out of it (compared to the bantu homeland).
Almost anything subSaharan could influence your hypothetical "Zulu" units. It is, in a way, like creating a whole graphical look akin to the European look that is now spread out over so many euro civs. Make up whatever history you desire - that's my suggestion. Imagine a cultural grouping in which Zulu aesthetic informs not only the broad geography of subSaharan Africa, but also adjacent theoretical civs like Ethiopia, Nubia, Mali, and Benin; and where they influence a broader African Cultural Group that might ultimately include Carthage and Egypt - a pair of culturals variously considered mediterranean or middle eastern.
Now, zebras. I beg you guys: don't beat the idea into a debatable item. Just consider it a breed of horse that the Zulu's somehow managed to develop with striping. Not a brown horse with a zebra hide on it. Not a quagga proper. It really doesn't have to have anything to do with zebras. Just a brown/white horse with striping on the back. That's all. It's fiction. I brought the idea about purely as a graphical distinction.
Shaka Zulu amalgamated and absorbed many confederate bantu-speaking tribes.
The Zulu and their ethnic cohorts are representative of the great bantu-speaking push out of central Africa. And in this they are much like the Celts, Germans, Mongols, or any other number of massive ethnic migrations throughout history.
Much of subSaharan Africa has a bantu-speaking component. It's a huge linguistic/cultural grouping. And in the game, the Zulus represent more than just Shaka's revolution, just as the Celts represent more than just the Gauls or Irish.
Abyssinia/Ethiopia is a much different ethnic entity, as is Mali. The first is soundly a part of the Hamito-Semitic world, not just linguistically, but historically and culturally. Those are biblical places, after all. Mali, IIRC, is a part of the subSaharan Niger-Congo matrix, the population that held the Sahul between the Sahara and the Congo basin. And so, they're pretty distinct from the Bantu/Zulu. The trade routes into Mali were known to the ancient mediterraneans, and like Ethiopia stood at the periphery of the classical world, but not out of it (compared to the bantu homeland).
Almost anything subSaharan could influence your hypothetical "Zulu" units. It is, in a way, like creating a whole graphical look akin to the European look that is now spread out over so many euro civs. Make up whatever history you desire - that's my suggestion. Imagine a cultural grouping in which Zulu aesthetic informs not only the broad geography of subSaharan Africa, but also adjacent theoretical civs like Ethiopia, Nubia, Mali, and Benin; and where they influence a broader African Cultural Group that might ultimately include Carthage and Egypt - a pair of culturals variously considered mediterranean or middle eastern.
Now, zebras. I beg you guys: don't beat the idea into a debatable item. Just consider it a breed of horse that the Zulu's somehow managed to develop with striping. Not a brown horse with a zebra hide on it. Not a quagga proper. It really doesn't have to have anything to do with zebras. Just a brown/white horse with striping on the back. That's all. It's fiction. I brought the idea about purely as a graphical distinction.
Kal-el
Deity
my understanding is that the zebra anatomy is not capable of supporting a rider. So, it would have to be a horse initially painted and then with zebra armor. The two animals are shaped differently enough that it is important to make the distinction when creating the unit.
and thanks for the history lesson. According to your information it looks like my two additional tribes the Masai and the Azandi will be appropriate for the Zulu.
and thanks for the history lesson. According to your information it looks like my two additional tribes the Masai and the Azandi will be appropriate for the Zulu.
Redking
Prince
Again, I urge you to just make it a horse with stripes. That is not so impossible to breed, mind you. A horse's proportions - yes, a proper horse - that's all I ever suggested. Not a zebra, not even a smaller "wild horse". A full sized horse, but bred to some sort of brindle pattern. It's not implausible IMO, and less a contrivance than "zebra armor" or "paint"
Just a cool looking stiped horse. Forget zebras. Forget I ever said quagga to begin with - it was just a reference point. Horse. Striped.
Striped horse.
Just a cool looking stiped horse. Forget zebras. Forget I ever said quagga to begin with - it was just a reference point. Horse. Striped.
Striped horse.
Kal-el
Deity
LOL, ok, well at civ scale you aren't going to be able to tell if the horse is painted or if those are it's natural stripes. But I think it would be difficult to breed a horse to have stripes. Generally when crossbreeding between the equine species the offspring is sterile. And I don't even know if it is possible to breed between zebra and horses to begin with. I imagine it is, but don't know. And without cross breeding I don't know how you would introduce the stripes into the horse gene pool.
Redking
Prince
This is becoming way too tangential. Forget zebras. No interbreeding. I didn't suggest that.
You're right, most inter-equine hybrids are sterile. But selectively bred horses exhibit a great range of colouring and marking. And since there are equines (I won't say which ones, I'm not saying that word again) that have striping, I believe it is conceivable that some such recessive trait could be somehow found and selected for.
If you can't bring yourself to brown with white stripes, then what about a bay with black rosettes?
A leopard horse?
Here's a point I'd like to make regarding graphical aesthetics among southern african warrior cultures. And this is really a mostly anecdotal observation: it seems to me that these cultures prefer piercing and scarification as body ornamentation, compared to tatooing or bodypainting. The reason seems obvious to me, and has been pointed out by black friends: on very dark skin, most colors, and certainly subcutaneous ink, do not stand out very well. The hilights of scars and ash/pebble injections do, however, as do jewelry piercings. This isn't universal, of course, just general - I know that papuans, for instance, have dark skin and enjoy bright body paints. But compared to the lighter skinned people of East Africa and the Sahul, the southern Africans (including the Zulus) seemed less into body paint.
To extrapolate, a people who do not paint themselves much are less likely to paint their steeds (and those who do are presumably more likely to so adorn their animals). Just a general point. The Zulus seemed to enjoy the contrast that white hides and feathers made on their skin. I see that representation alot. Red seemed a popular colour also.
You're right, most inter-equine hybrids are sterile. But selectively bred horses exhibit a great range of colouring and marking. And since there are equines (I won't say which ones, I'm not saying that word again) that have striping, I believe it is conceivable that some such recessive trait could be somehow found and selected for.If you can't bring yourself to brown with white stripes, then what about a bay with black rosettes?
A leopard horse?Here's a point I'd like to make regarding graphical aesthetics among southern african warrior cultures. And this is really a mostly anecdotal observation: it seems to me that these cultures prefer piercing and scarification as body ornamentation, compared to tatooing or bodypainting. The reason seems obvious to me, and has been pointed out by black friends: on very dark skin, most colors, and certainly subcutaneous ink, do not stand out very well. The hilights of scars and ash/pebble injections do, however, as do jewelry piercings. This isn't universal, of course, just general - I know that papuans, for instance, have dark skin and enjoy bright body paints. But compared to the lighter skinned people of East Africa and the Sahul, the southern Africans (including the Zulus) seemed less into body paint.
To extrapolate, a people who do not paint themselves much are less likely to paint their steeds (and those who do are presumably more likely to so adorn their animals). Just a general point. The Zulus seemed to enjoy the contrast that white hides and feathers made on their skin. I see that representation alot. Red seemed a popular colour also.
aaminion00
Stoned
I made a drawing of a Babylonian tank unit and a Zulu galley if anyone's interested. I'll try to get my scanner to work later.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
To address the whole "should they wear a god's mask into battle" question...Why not just give them the headdress the Egyptian Axeman is wearing? (Consult Kal-el's sketch) As for the Zulu cavalry: ya, I'm not sure where the Zulu would get the horses...Maybe it can be an elephant?...We already have an Elephant cavalry, and I don't think they were too common in the regions Zulu were in...
I'd love to see 'em...But how would tanks vary except in size and color?
I'd love to see 'em...But how would tanks vary except in size and color?
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
The subSaharan African elephant isn't domesticable... but I don't think that having horses for the Zulu is so unreasonable. I mean, these units are fictious anyway. On a random map, they'll probably have horses nearby.
Very!
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
I'd love to see 'em...But how would tanks vary except in size and color?
It's probably a ziggurat with a turret!
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