Keeping the Game Challenging

[JosEPh_II]

Make sure you test Epic and Normal as much as you do the slower speeds. This disparity in testing has lead to trouble before. No not everyone plays C2C on Snail or slower. Nor does everyone think there is too much gold.

I just hope it does not lead back to where buildings won't get built (even bldgs like Libraries) like before because maint cost and inflation is thru the roof.

There has to be some give from the "too much" gold crowd, just like there has been "give" given from the expansionist crowd.

JosEPh

 

[Yudishtira]

Make sure you test Epic and Normal as much as you do the slower speeds. This disparity in testing has lead to trouble before. No not everyone plays C2C on Snail or slower. Nor does everyone think there is too much gold.

I just hope it does not lead back to where buildings won't get built (even bldgs like Libraries) like before because maint cost and inflation is thru the roof.

There has to be some give from the "too much" gold crowd, just like there has been "give" given from the expansionist crowd.

JosEPh

Would you mind stating your actual position on gold. For example, I think a gold surplus at 0% tax on Deity is too much gold. Do we agree on that much?

 

[strategyonly]

Make sure you test Epic and Normal as much as you do the slower speeds. This disparity in testing has lead to trouble before. No not everyone plays C2C on Snail or slower. Nor does everyone think there is too much gold.

I just hope it does not lead back to where buildings won't get built (even bldgs like Libraries) like before because maint cost and inflation is thru the roof.

There has to be some give from the "too much" gold crowd, just like there has been "give" given from the expansionist crowd.

JosEPh

I have to agree, i am currently playing on Marathon and i only have 2 cities and i am at -40 and at 0 on the slider, i have only a Tribal Guardian in the capital city, and only 8 other units, and some AI are already making Horseman and some to my civ and demolish my 2nd city, and still at a -28 geeh

 

[Yudishtira]

I have to agree, i am currently playing on Marathon and i only have 2 cities and i am at -40 and at 0 on the slider, i have only a Tribal Guardian in the capital city, and only 8 other units, and some AI are already making Horseman and some to my civ and demolish my 2nd city, and still at a -28 geeh

No question that gold is hard to come by early on. Perhaps too hard - I'm not sure.

The too much gold only kicks in shortly after Currency iirc.

 

[Azurian]

Turn 271 of the newest Balance Patch I put to SVN 6570. This is Snail with Monarch with 15 AI.

Note: The reason I have 1k gold is because I failed to build 4 wonders and it converted the hammers to gold.

Note: I am behind on Growth because the only animals in my area were birds and small mammals, and I did not discover any Natural Wonders or was able to build World Wonders.

Spoiler :

Larger means it takes longer

Era | Research| Construction|Unit Training| Population Growth|Tech Modifer|Culture
Prehistoric |75|95|95|105|75 (it was 0)|75
Ancient |125| 100| 100|110|100|85
Classical |125|110|110|115|125|95
Medieval |100|120|120|120|150|105
Renaissance |100|130|130|125|175|115
Industrial |75|140|140|130|175|125
Modern |75|150|150|135|200|135
Transhuman |75|160|160|140|225|145
Galactic |50|170|170|145|250 (it was 500)|155

GoldModifier = Global percentage modifier for ALL costs. Higher equals less gold, lower equals more gold.

Gamespeed|New iGoldModifer|New Inflation % | New Inflation Offset
Eternity |50|10| -720 |
Eons |60|15|-600|
Snail |65|20 |-480|
Marathon |65| 25| -360|
Epic | 70| 30 |-240|
Normal |75|35 |-120|
Quick |80|40|-60|
Blitz |85|50|-30|

Initial number of free units outside the civilization.

INITIAL_FREE_OUTSIDE_UNITS from 6 to 10.

How much food needed to go up 1 population point.

FOOD_CONSUMPTION_PER_POPULATION from 3 to 4.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Food consumption needs to return to 3. Or more removed from early Preh buildings and start levels.

JosEPh

 

[Azurian]

Food consumption needs to return to 3. Or more removed from early Preh buildings and start levels.

JosEPh

EDIT: Changed it back to 3.

 

[Faustmouse]

As for gold, I noticed on my current GEM/Deity/Eons game, that after I got Monarchy I have no money issue thanks to the two unlocked civics.
Right now I have +1000 plus per turn in the early Medival Era with 0% tax, no city builds Wealth and only one Holy Shrine. And I have 80+ cities!!! The funny thing is: Once a new city is founded, it costs like 20 per turn but instantly generates 15 per turn. And dispite I play Eons, early boosting buildings need only 1 or 2 turns and so do the buildings. That means, like 20 turns after I found a city it starts to generate a plus (or at least no loss) and gives , and new resources from the beginnnig on.

I think the maintenance for number of cities is way too low.

Note that this is the SVN from ~5 days ago.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I think the maintenance for number of cities is way too low.

For Eons game speed it would seem. Now go do the same on Normal speed.

JosEPh

 

[Faustmouse]

In my current game (deity, GEM, Eons) I'm halfway thorugh the modern Era and I must say: I like what I see!

- My Cities are HUGE (alomost all, even the Canadian Island ones are 100+, which is well over 10m inhabitants). This is mostly due Corporations (I think they need to be tweeked)

- My cities suffer in crime (1000+ despite 5 Guards per Town), Disease (not sure how much since I don't really care about it), Water (800+) and Air Pollution (1100+). Nice! If I had Revolutions on my Empire would be totally screwed

- Even though disease and Pollution is totally out of conrtol, almost no city (maybe 5 from 134) is ; but most of them are with 80-120 ! So we probably need to increase the you have by then a bit. But I think in modern cities in a developed world, there is much more then so that's actually a bit realistic. Not sure hof it is in such 10m+ Megacities.

- Turntimes are quite ok (~5min) and I haven't had a MAF since the Renaissance (100*100 Viewports and Graphic Pageing)

What I dislike:
- My only remaining Enemy, Ashoka controlls basically everything that is not North and South America - even Hawaii. He has 297 cities. In the beginning of the modern age, he needed always 1 or 2 turns less per tech then I did. Which was 50% of the time. Now I research new techs in 4 turns when he needs 5, eventhough the has more then twice as many cities then I have. And he runs on 100% research, of course (money is not an issue...)

- Money is not an issue! I make about 200k each turn. If I let a wonder be build 1 turn and then rush it, it's like 300k at max. WAAAAAY too cheap! If I want to buy a new tech from Ashoka, he only wants 400k AT MAX. WAAAAAY too cheap! When I trade an equal tech for a tech from him, he demands only 50k so most of the time I'm able to buy his new techs for nothing but gold. He needs to learn how to buy techs (from other AI) or how to use his gold to rush wonders and buildings

- I get all wonders I want, because I rush them. No problem there.

- He has 297 cities and tries to invade me from time to time (ok, I have basically no troops). But two world powers with all resources, enough food, a stable relationship for many many years should not go on war "just because" at that time.

- Buildings take around 2-4 turns for older ones and new ones 5-10 in my top 50% cities. But I have the Powercomplex (+200 in every city) and Mining Corporation. And Techs only need 2-4 turns...

- It's time we get a Space mechanism working... There are a lot of boring space techs

- Some older buildings like Theorie of Everything, Cloning Lab, Missile Lab... needs to be adjusted a bit. And some Tech/building/resource requirements seems to be wrong. It's time that more peoble reach that point of the game!





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If you are interested, I can upload a Savegame!

 

[ls612]

- Money is not an issue! I make about 200k each turn. If I let a wonder be build 1 turn and then rush it, it's like 300k at max. WAAAAAY too cheap! If I want to buy a new tech from Ashoka, he only wants 400k AT MAX. WAAAAAY too cheap! When I trade an equal tech for a tech from him, he demands only 50k so most of the time I'm able to buy his new techs for nothing but gold. He needs to learn how to buy techs (from other AI) or how to use his gold to rush wonders and buildings

I thought this may be an issue with the gamespeeds since I haven't looked at them in a long while. The reason for this is basically that as you build more buildings on a longer gamespeed you get more production per city on average than if you were playing a slower gamespeed, so eventually the production cost increases on slower speeds are not as great as they might seem. To fix that I added a gold cost modifier to gamespeeds a while back (early this year) and set them to balanced levels for the time. But since then things have gotten longer in the Prehistoric era (and other places too) so the old balance, plus whatever quick and dirty tweaks were added since then, isn't too good anymore.

 

[Faustmouse]

Maybe... And I have admittedly a very big empire.

Great to see you around again

 

[teakbois]

Late ancient/early classical
Snail/Immortal/Large map
18 cities, 494 gold per turn
not using: divine prophets, unlimited wonders, scientific leader
revolutions might as well be checked off, they just dont matter anymore it seems

I only know one AI (well, I did know two, but, well elephants can get restless) and they seem to be on pace with me tech wise. I might have a slight lead. Tough to tell at this stage (so many different tech paths here)

Things are a little skewed because I was in a good land situation (small continent with only one other AI)

Few things:

Obviously, gold is way too easy to come by. And I can get even more, just build smuggler shantys and offset with a guard.

AI got the three prehistoric religions. They havent touched a religion since, and Im not getting them. Have to admit Im pretty tempted to get hammurabi's code, but trying not to cheese the game by getting multiple religions (going to snag andeanism because its good science and I have a few cities with a bunch of peaks and it seems a good fit for my civ (Incans)). Mesopotamianism at least should have been snagged long ago I would think.

Elephant rush-way too easy. I know these types of rushes are often pretty easy to pull off in civ games, but I think the elephants are just too cheap to build.

Barbs seem way too passive. I did recently build the great wall (for the engineer bonus), but I didnt lose a single worker to a barbarian and I left them unprotected.

 

[Sparth]

I think that elephants units should have national limits. In real history theres no army which was builid entire by elephant units. What do you think?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think that elephants units should have national limits. In real history theres no army which was builid entire by elephant units. What do you think?

I think Southeast Asia had a huge elephant army. No national limits on normal elephants. Cultural UU elephants are another story. Plus what happens if the only animal unit you can make are elephants?

 

[Pepo]

i remenber in early versions that mammoth rush was OP but it was difficult to use it.maybe elephants should be expensier and harder to build

 

[Snofru1]

I am in Galactic Era now and since Transhuman there is only one remaining strategy: Build Mind Control Centers everywhere. Crime is so huge that it can´t be controled otherwise. Disease is huge, too, it can´t be controlled at all, even with 20 or more Medic units, it is still 4000 to 8000. But I don´t really care, there are so few diseases then.
Pollution can be controlled quite good in TH era as there are very appropriate buildings for it. But be careful to not go too uch in the negativ, the values will bounce up and down with no chance to control it between +10000 and -10000. But without Mind Control there will be 100s of unhappy citizens in each city - with all happy-face buildings built.

The reason for all this: The huge cities (currently my biggest one is at 457 and still growing)

The latest techs are too difficult to get: I own 90% of the world and my huge cities have every research building available. I still need 131 turns for Euklidian 5-Space Geometry. The spaceship parts are too expensive, I need about 100 turns in my most productive city.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I think Southeast Asia had a huge elephant army. No national limits on normal elephants. Cultural UU elephants are another story. Plus what happens if the only animal unit you can make are elephants?

I have to agree with Hydro on this issue. Elephants are fine as they are.

JosEPh

 

[Faustmouse]

I agree on the Elephats with Hydro and Joseph. If you have them, you have an advantage. Like you have when you own Copper, Iron, Horses...

I am in Galactic Era now and since Transhuman there is only one remaining strategy: Build Mind Control Centers everywhere. Crime is so huge that it can´t be controled otherwise. Disease is huge, too, it can´t be controlled at all, even with 20 or more Medic units, it is still 4000 to 8000. But I don´t really care, there are so few diseases then.
Pollution can be controlled quite good in TH era as there are very appropriate buildings for it. But be careful to not go too uch in the negativ, the values will bounce up and down with no chance to control it between +10000 and -10000. But without Mind Control there will be 100s of unhappy citizens in each city - with all happy-face buildings built.

The reason for all this: The huge cities (currently my biggest one is at 457 and still growing)

The latest techs are too difficult to get: I own 90% of the world and my huge cities have every research building available. I still need 131 turns for Euklidian 5-Space Geometry. The spaceship parts are too expensive, I need about 100 turns in my most productive city.

Yes, this late part of the game has no balance at all. A 200 Pop city (which is easily doable with Corporations) has 1.25 Billion inhabitants. And this is in the end of the modern era. There need to be a lot of Crime and Disease fighting buildings in the TH Era.

 

[Snofru1]

Yes, this late part of the game has no balance at all. A 200 Pop city (which is easily doable with Corporations) has 1.25 Billion inhabitants. And this is in the end of the modern era. There need to be a lot of Crime and Disease fighting buildings in the TH Era.

Sorry, if I repeat myself: Crime & pollution can usually be handled, but desease never. From the beginning I had high desease values and they only knew one direction: up and up all the time, just like the national pile of debt (in real life, not civ). This cannot be counteracted with a few anti-desease buildings (IMO), the population/desease ratio needs to be changed.