Keeping the Game Challenging

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think that elephants units should have national limits. In real history theres no army which was builid entire by elephant units. What do you think?

I think Southeast Asia had a huge elephant army. No national limits on normal elephants. Cultural UU elephants are another story. Plus what happens if the only animal unit you can make are elephants?

I have to agree with Hydro on this issue. Elephants are fine as they are.

JosEPh

I have been wondering if it were possible to choose, perhaps with a GG, your nations preferred mount and have all other mount types double in cost because of your relative unfamiliarity with the animal. Not choosing would double all all mounted unit costs.

Of course this would be done simply by

1) doubling all mounted units costs
2) classify mounted units by mount
3) add a mission to the GG which halves the cost of te selected class
4) add ai to get the AI to choose the mount they have best access to.​

Alternately, have the choice be made by the units built. The first mount type to have one hundred (or 10, or 50) built becomes the mount of choice.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I have been wondering if it were possible to choose, perhaps with a GG, your nations preferred mount and have all other mount types double in cost because of your relative unfamiliarity with the animal. Not choosing would double all all mounted unit costs.

Of course this would be done simply by

1) doubling all mounted units costs
2) classify mounted units by mount
3) add a mission to the GG which halves the cost of te selected class
4) add ai to get the AI to choose the mount they have best access to.​

Alternately, have the choice be made by the units built. The first mount type to have one hundred (or 10, or 50) built becomes the mount of choice.

The AI is only a little tricky but should be something I could work out in relatively very little time. The 'classify mounted units by mount' step is being done already with my Combat Class project which will take a bit of time yet to complete but is underway.

As important would then be to make sure the other mounted unit lines are as fleshed out as horse riders... and perhaps with a little edge over the horse as the horse would play into a LOT of culture specific units. Still, most mounts do (or will by the time I'm done with the Fight or Flight fleshing out) have an ability or two that horses don't.

 

[Hydromancerx]

1) doubling all mounted units costs

I could see this. Maybe even a gold per turn to represent the maintenance of caring for a mount.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Doubling Mounted unit costs would be devastating to AI as well as the player. Way too big a hit and adding 1 gold a turn, well kiss mounted units good bye in your games.

Just a 10-20% increase would make marked changes in the number of such units in the game and impo weaken their impact. It would also make llama riders and such trivial as they are weak Mounted units but are better than having none in the current set up.

Also all this discussion over mounted is Very very Map dependent and driven.

JosEPh

 

[Faustmouse]

+1 per Mounted unit is not as much as you might think. You mostly have 20-30 at max when you first get to them and when you have mabye 200 of them, your cities give enough gold.

 

[JosEPh_II]

+1 per Mounted unit is not as much as you might think. You mostly have 20-30 at max when you first get to them and when you have mabye 200 of them, your cities give enough gold.

Added on to Double the cost it Is a big thing. And the early Civics will wreak some havoc too on over all maint costs by adding +1 gold/mount.

I really don't think this has been thought thru for all the ramifications these changes would impact.

Simply adjusting cost by 20% (not doubling) would quickly tell with a few play thru games the impact and in what areas of the game besides just mounted units themselves.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I just threw out a broad idea. It was not intended to be the final figures. I was aiming for next to no total effect on the ai because once they have chosen their preferred mount the ai will concentrate on the cheaper mounts as being more value for money. That way I would expect greater diversity of the nations but more uniformity in a nation. Those without horses will have and use cheap elephants or camels instead. The cheapness is just a simple mechanism that would not require a huge AI change.

edit I realise now that my solution was not a solution to the perceived problem of the elephant rush but my problem of all nations being almost the same. Sorry.

 

[Sgtslick]

fyi, if i get elephants, all i do is spam them non stop with riding school. Kill all barbs around me, and neighbouring ai on deity usually every time. If you don't your missing out big time imo.

 

[Faustmouse]

If you really think elephants are too overpowered, make them more expensive to simulate the harder breeding of them.
But I still think: Those with elephants have an advantage and this is GOOD. It's basically the same as having Oil: Big advantage!
Why are Elephants all offensive? Couldn't there be a defensive elephant unit to conter them? Or maybe a special building that helps to defent against elephants. I'm pretty sure TB is going to implent something that will work.

 

[Thunderbrd]

At first, elephants are scheduled to be even more powerful than they were, to some extent. However, where I think they've always been a problematic unit for their owners is in the subject of MORALE which I think historically is somewhat their weak point. Their difficulty to control at times could be a double edged sword as well. So as the combat mod develops their features will certainly be adapting. Some added cost for them does make sense though. And unlike most mounted units, they won't be very good with withdrawal and pursuit so effective speed forces can trump them if used cleverly.

 

[JamesBC]

Our we still adding the Bad People mod, I would love some negative Great People that terrorize my cities.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Our we still adding the Bad People mod, I would love some negative Great People that terrorize my cities.

It is on the list but I think it is too shallow and since I would have to do it it does not get done. I have higher priorities like getting the extra specialists to work. Unfortunately every time I look at CvMainInterface.py I want to rewrite the whole thing to make it easier to maintain.

 

[platyping]

Easiest way is scrap the whole chunk of bug specialist options and replace it.
Done in 3 minutes.
Don't see why there is a need of 3 or 4 styles of displaying same info

 

[strategyonly]

Easiest way is scrap the whole chunk of bug specialist options and replace it.
Done in 3 minutes.
Don't see why there is a need of 3 or 4 styles of displaying same info

But would it cause other problems in other areas because BUG is a very touchy python thing, i am guessing here??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I get about 70% done then everything breaks! Plus C2C is about options, why shouldn't the people using higher definition have the choice of how they are displayed?

 

[JamesBC]

It is on the list but I think it is too shallow and since I would have to do it it does not get done. I have higher priorities like getting the extra specialists to work. Unfortunately every time I look at CvMainInterface.py I want to rewrite the whole thing to make it easier to maintain.

I think CvMainInterface.py is the largest and most complex python file currently hehe. I wonder if there is an error checker for python files like XML hs XSD.

I'm curious, what is on the top of your list besides extra specialists?

 

[platyping]

1) Because the more options you have, the more if else statements you need, the less efficient your codes.
2) Because my style is like c2c style.
When pple want/ don't want a feature which I disagree, I will tell them to DIY just like you guys tell them to play other mods
3) Because rather than spend 3 months trying to figure it out, it can be done in 3 minutes.
4) Because what is the point of keeping the old styles if none of them can display more specialists unless you intend to modify all of them

 

[Azurian]

In a perfect world, platyping would be a BUG modder. Since he is not, we have to learn BUG ourselves. It's funny, with Platyping mods you just have to add his changes to EvenManager but under BUG you have to add specific XML commands and link stuff to get it to work lol.

 

[platyping]

Why will Apple CEO do things using Samsung style unless there are benefits
I don't see any benefits of coding in BUG style when everything can be done in BTS style.

 

[Azurian]

Why will Apple CEO do things using Samsung style unless there are benefits
I don't see any benefits of coding in BUG style when everything can be done in BTS style.

The only benefit would be the many mods that use BUG would be greatly enhanced with the Platyping touch, ( yes I am comparing you to Midas). Other than that, I love your style. It's simpler, no need to to learn new ways to code. It's glorious.