Khadi "good" side World Spell
- Thread starter Crazy_Ivan
- Start date
WarKirby
Arty person
I think the general gist, was that worlnbreak destroys buildings as well as killing units. There's a good chance it would destroy some of your vault gates, and also repositories, meditation halls, etc.
Seems more like a question of timing of using that spell though as well not just that the Kahdi would replenish their armies quickly.
I'm a little less than halfway thru a Kahdi marathon game. Turn 690 or so...
This civ needs some help imo, at least so far.
No I haven't popped the Kahd yet, and am going to pretty soon (have all the mana for the Tower of Divination and will use the free tech to get Strength of Will).
So far though, they seem very underpowered.
a) Intolerant isn't working properly in terms of stopping passive religion spread. As a result, I have a few cities with AV and OO, even though I have no open borders with the civs around me who follow those religions. I guess this is a bug, but not being able to train a unit with Inquisitor is kind of annoying
Another side effect of Intolerant is the same thing that handicaps Council of Esus civs. No healing, no disease curing. I have built both the Aquea Sucellus and the Shrine of Sirona, so that helps a bit...but it's really not enough.
I'm going to assume since I haven't seen one yet that none of the elementals coming through my gates are going to be a disciple equivalent and have medic abilties..so why not give Goslings the Medic 1 promotion. This would go a long way towards making them more useful.
b) No hero is a pretty huge handicap. I don't know exactly how strong Kahd will be since I haven't popped him yet, but even so it takes quite awhile to get to him and in the meantime, the lack of a hero unit is pretty terrible. Most civs get at least 2 heros, their civ hero and a religion hero (or several).
I'd love to see some sort of early to mid range hero for the Kahdi. Maybe attached to Knowledge of the Ether, or one of the 4 mana techs. An Elemental attached to Elementalism for instance. Str 6 perhaps, with the hero promotion, and maybe a +1 affinity to an element so that it can grow in power a bit too as the game goes on.
I do like the fact that I can currently make a mage in 2 turns...I popped a Great Commander from a lair, and adding him to the city where I built Form of the Titan, they are popping with 6xp, which is enough to get them to level 4 right away, and the next turn, I have a mage. It's nice, but even with the great equalizer that fireballs are, it's not making up the power difference.
Edit: 1 more suggestion...it seems the mechanic is there for this, though of course I have no idea if the in game mechanics are the same, but it would be nice if the Scions Awakened spawn rate % window could be used for the Kahdi, and show the spawn rate % for the elementals that pop out of their gates.
I'll post again later with some more updates and thoughts.
This civ needs some help imo, at least so far.
No I haven't popped the Kahd yet, and am going to pretty soon (have all the mana for the Tower of Divination and will use the free tech to get Strength of Will).
So far though, they seem very underpowered.
a) Intolerant isn't working properly in terms of stopping passive religion spread. As a result, I have a few cities with AV and OO, even though I have no open borders with the civs around me who follow those religions. I guess this is a bug, but not being able to train a unit with Inquisitor is kind of annoying
Another side effect of Intolerant is the same thing that handicaps Council of Esus civs. No healing, no disease curing. I have built both the Aquea Sucellus and the Shrine of Sirona, so that helps a bit...but it's really not enough.
I'm going to assume since I haven't seen one yet that none of the elementals coming through my gates are going to be a disciple equivalent and have medic abilties..so why not give Goslings the Medic 1 promotion. This would go a long way towards making them more useful.
b) No hero is a pretty huge handicap. I don't know exactly how strong Kahd will be since I haven't popped him yet, but even so it takes quite awhile to get to him and in the meantime, the lack of a hero unit is pretty terrible. Most civs get at least 2 heros, their civ hero and a religion hero (or several).
I'd love to see some sort of early to mid range hero for the Kahdi. Maybe attached to Knowledge of the Ether, or one of the 4 mana techs. An Elemental attached to Elementalism for instance. Str 6 perhaps, with the hero promotion, and maybe a +1 affinity to an element so that it can grow in power a bit too as the game goes on.
I do like the fact that I can currently make a mage in 2 turns...I popped a Great Commander from a lair, and adding him to the city where I built Form of the Titan, they are popping with 6xp, which is enough to get them to level 4 right away, and the next turn, I have a mage. It's nice, but even with the great equalizer that fireballs are, it's not making up the power difference.
Edit: 1 more suggestion...it seems the mechanic is there for this, though of course I have no idea if the in game mechanics are the same, but it would be nice if the Scions Awakened spawn rate % window could be used for the Kahdi, and show the spawn rate % for the elementals that pop out of their gates.
I'll post again later with some more updates and thoughts.
Leitmotif
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Messages
- 61
Gonna add to the above post really quick ^^
The hero Kahd REALLY needs to be able to get twincast. Right now it's only available to units with the actual "Hero" promotion, but Kahd is a hero damnit and he's also mage so he should be able to get twincast like everyone else. As it stands Hemah makes him look like a complete joke, and he's way, way easier to get.
The hero Kahd REALLY needs to be able to get twincast. Right now it's only available to units with the actual "Hero" promotion, but Kahd is a hero damnit and he's also mage so he should be able to get twincast like everyone else. As it stands Hemah makes him look like a complete joke, and he's way, way easier to get.
WarKirby
Arty person
technically, kahd isn't a hero. He has something like "Enlightened" instead of hero. Which has all the same effects, except it doesn't allow twincast.
It's an oversight, I'd go so far as to say a bug. I'm almost certain it's not intentional.
If you want a quick fix, have a look at my modules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=318813
In the promotion tweaking module, I changed the prereq of twincast to just being level 10. No promotion required, not even hero. So non heroes can learn it, and of course Kahd can.
Modules can be installed on a game in progress, and work just fine.
It's an oversight, I'd go so far as to say a bug. I'm almost certain it's not intentional.
If you want a quick fix, have a look at my modules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=318813
In the promotion tweaking module, I changed the prereq of twincast to just being level 10. No promotion required, not even hero. So non heroes can learn it, and of course Kahd can.
Modules can be installed on a game in progress, and work just fine.
WarKirby
Arty person
I really like this idea.
Hell, he should be able to build Priests of Mammon if he converts to the dark side, too. They'd be quite fitting.
I'd even lend a hand in doing some unique graphics for the priests. Although I haven't figured out particles yet....
Good point. Bear those Mammons for the world to see!
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
Now:
Metamagic Affinity: 1 (as before)
+1 Fire damage with Fire Mana
+1 Cold damage with Water Mana
+1 Physical damage with Earth Mana
+1 Lightning damage with Air Mana
+50% strength with all four elemental types listed above
+1 Fire damage with Fire Mana
+1 Cold damage with Water Mana
+1 Physical damage with Earth Mana
+1 Lightning damage with Air Mana
+50% strength with all four elemental types listed above
The bonus damage types are single-shot affinities - only the first mana-source counts.
====
Kahdi Palace loses Air-Mana, gains Reagents.
(On the topic of Palace Mana's, I'm currently looking at a way to allow Kahdi/Amurites to gain certain mana sources without relying on nodes, which compensates for the loss of Palace Mana - Amurites may be getting the same Reagent-switch for their palace too)
====
Thades can start with assorted Level 2 spheres (independently from their Level 1 spheres - their spells are just a mixed bag).
WarKirby
Arty person
gnoslings sound much better now 
I think Khadi really needs a medic/healer vault creature too. Something that can cast cure disease is a must, and having medic promos/heal spell would be nice too.
Is it possible to give non integer values for affinity? Some early creature with 0.5 affinity for all mana types would be interesting, like a mini djinn
I think Khadi really needs a medic/healer vault creature too. Something that can cast cure disease is a must, and having medic promos/heal spell would be nice too.
Is it possible to give non integer values for affinity? Some early creature with 0.5 affinity for all mana types would be interesting, like a mini djinn
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
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- 3,219
Not yet - but it's on the list...
What do you think about Kahdi getting Priests of Mammon or Oghma once the worldspell is cast?
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
Does either god actually have an organized religion? Oghma is a patron of those who seek/preserve knowledge and certainly has worshippers, but I've never heard much about a specific form of religion. Mammon has the Stewards of Inequity to keep his interests in order, but they again strike me as being less priestly than say a Ritualist or a Vicar...
More differentiation does sound good - but I need more of a concept than "add some priests" to work with really...
WarKirby
Arty person
I actually spent some time thinking up Mammon priest spells
Avarice
Creates a building in the city, which gives +25%
and +25% 
, but also +3 
and lowers your alignment by 15.
Bribe
Possibly a high priest spell. Simply buys nearby enemy units. The cost is equal to...
Base cost:
cost of unit / 2
Then multiply by: 1 + (0.2*targetlevel)
Then multiply by 1.25 for a good leader, or 0.75 for an evil leader. (of the target unit)
Double the cost if the unit has unitreligion Order, or Loyalty promotion
Multiply the cost by 10 if the unit has Hero promotion, or is a world unit.
Halve the cost if the unit has Council of Esus religion.
Essentially, with a bit of investment, you'd be able to buy armies from your enemies.
Avarice
Creates a building in the city, which gives +25%
and +25% , but also +3 and lowers your alignment by 15.Bribe
Possibly a high priest spell. Simply buys nearby enemy units. The cost is equal to...
Base cost:
cost of unit / 2Then multiply by: 1 + (0.2*targetlevel)
Then multiply by 1.25 for a good leader, or 0.75 for an evil leader. (of the target unit)
Double the cost if the unit has unitreligion Order, or Loyalty promotion
Multiply the cost by 10 if the unit has Hero promotion, or is a world unit.
Halve the cost if the unit has Council of Esus religion.
Essentially, with a bit of investment, you'd be able to buy armies from your enemies.
The NeverTide
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2009
- Messages
- 54
That's a pretty awesome idea WarKirby. Might be a bit overpowered if it allows you to buy heroes.. I know I'd feel terrible if a Mammon worshipping Kahd somehow bought by Eurbatres(sp??) or ascended Auric. That and it wouldn't fit thematically either with most heroes, they are inherently tied to the their civs in almost every case.
I also really like the idea of a new religious path after the decision is made! What if when you made the choice it automatically created a UB in the capital that was the equivalent of the religious wonder buildings (as in tablets of Bambur and Song of Autumn)? From here, it would passively spread throughout the rest of your empire (but no one else's if possible). Each would have it's own priest line and arcane lines if possible.
Oghma's UB could be called The Reliquary of Wisdom, Mammon's The Cathedral of Avarice.
The reliquary could offer increased science output and it's appropriate mana type(?) and, for a unique mechanic, offer a %chance of creating new mana nodes on unworked plots within Khadi cultural borders.
The cathedral could offer increased commerce and it's appropriate mana type(again..?). As for the unique mechanic I know I have should have a bunch of fun ideas, but I don't. Maybe extra votes/sway/discounted prices in the UC? My brain isn't working right now.
I think, for the sake of ease at the moment, that they should not be able to build temples anywhere else. Also, I don't know a whole lot about the stewards of inequity so if someone could point me in a direction for some more info I'll come back with more ideas.
Sorry, my brain isn't working very well right now, so I'll come back with more ideas later.
I also really like the idea of a new religious path after the decision is made! What if when you made the choice it automatically created a UB in the capital that was the equivalent of the religious wonder buildings (as in tablets of Bambur and Song of Autumn)? From here, it would passively spread throughout the rest of your empire (but no one else's if possible). Each would have it's own priest line and arcane lines if possible.
Oghma's UB could be called The Reliquary of Wisdom, Mammon's The Cathedral of Avarice.
The reliquary could offer increased science output and it's appropriate mana type(?) and, for a unique mechanic, offer a %chance of creating new mana nodes on unworked plots within Khadi cultural borders.
The cathedral could offer increased commerce and it's appropriate mana type(again..?). As for the unique mechanic I know I have should have a bunch of fun ideas, but I don't. Maybe extra votes/sway/discounted prices in the UC? My brain isn't working right now.
I think, for the sake of ease at the moment, that they should not be able to build temples anywhere else. Also, I don't know a whole lot about the stewards of inequity so if someone could point me in a direction for some more info I'll come back with more ideas.
Sorry, my brain isn't working very well right now, so I'll come back with more ideas later.
JimMorrison
Philosopher Poet
I thought you guys wanted to implement more religions, eventually? I could see some being more minor than others, but adding some diversity there would really help the landscape of the game a bit. I understand it's a lot of work, I'm patient and I know you guys will continue to make this mod better in whatever ways seem best to you. <3
Milaga
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2008
- Messages
- 470
That seems a bit much. I can understand that those worshipping Mammon can have their loyalty bought, but I really don't think every unit has a price. And what about undead/demon/angel units?
Perhaps they can only buy HN units, since those units are for the most part mercenaries already. Would be a very nice counter to a HN-heavy civ like Hippus or Svaltfar.
Perhaps disciples of Mammon can spread the religion to other cities ... and they steal gold by doing so! The Cult of Mammon could be a "guild". Spreading it transfers 10-20 gold from target city to Khadi and the guild increases maintenance in the city by 10%.
I always thought there were too many agnostics in FF, especially because they aren't really agnostic, they just by flavor follow a religion that isn't one of the seven.
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