Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
Don't underestimate the power of catapults. Almost any tech disadvantage can be made up with enough catapults.
King of the World #1: Montezuma
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
@ Jet : Neal said that he wanted to try Dom in this map 
Well, considering his position right now, its tough to choose which victory condition to pursue. IMO, he would not be able to achieve domination or conquest until time runs out as it is a huge map and diplomatic will be tough since his relations are strained with the AI's due to religious differences (maybe he can improve that by adopting FR). A cultural is obviously not feasible. Space is probably the the most realistic .. just cottage spam and out-tech the AI is my advice. 
You need to instigate a world war in europe to get the ai's to whittle down their armies and bog down their research. Pleased relations and a tech will sometimes do the trick. It would be nice to have this happen while you are grinding capac into dust.
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
Huh? How do you figure that?
I just think its late to go for a cultural victory this late .. he has few wonders and 1 religion only if I'm not mistaken. Also, the other civs dont seem too friendly in general due to religous differences and the risk of falling behind in tech and power while building culture and stuff like theatres is big.
All right, guys, monster round here. I probably should have split it into two separate rounds, but I'm getting about ready to wrap this one up and move on to another leader (yes, there will be more in the series).
To begin the round, I made the move to some wartime civics:
And began cranking out troops. My triremes quivered in anticipation outside Panama.
Meanwhile, Eurasia came at me with all sorts of crazy offers and demands.
I was more interested in the gold than Divine Right, but why not. Keep the Chinese happy, I always say. Especially after watching 24.
As little as Philosophy really means at this point, I had to say no here. Isabella has one city and no way to make boats. What could she possibly do to threaten me? I sent most of her emissary back to Spain. The heart sizzled on my Sacrificial Altar.
Speaking of which, it's awfully creepy that the Altars get the default Courthouse sound bite. Gives that "*Thwap* *Thwap* Order! Order!" a whole new meaning.
Louis, though, could hurt me. And how could I pass up the opportunity to say that the French ordered me to give them crabs? I'd rather get a couple of bucks for it, but I'm willing to keep the peace.
Russia came by and demanded our World Map. *shrug* Sure, why not. Knock yourself out. We're well past the point that the map has any real value.
Lovely Victoria came by with a most tempting offer:
I would have preferred Liberalism, but, hey: Grenadiers wouldn't hurt in the subjugation of the Inca.
Catherine then came back in a much more amicable mood and made her offer for Replaceable Parts:
Finally, with Chemistry being researched and a few triremes full of Macemen and Trebuchets, it was time to lay down the law with our primitive Incan buddies:
The trebuchets made a big difference in the war, obviously.
During the conflict, Alexander came by and offered me the trade of a lifetime:
... Wow. Had I known he was THAT backward, I'd've GIVEN him Civil Service. Get with the program, buddy! I'm thinking maybe the next game should use Alex, just to see if he can be a real factor in geopolitics.
With Chemistry researched, I was awfully tempted to go for Liberalism, but I was still holding out hope that I could acquire it in trade. So I went for:
As a tradeable tech, to get coal (a tradeable resource), to speed up workers, and as a prereq to Railroads (Our empire is getting a bit big for its britches).
As you can see, our conquest of the Inca empire is moving along quite nicely in the background. In fact, we took the next city in line and...
Our major objective was accomplished: We could settle South America without having to fight off Chilean culture. I probably should have smashed him to bits, but I was feeling sorry for the little guy and his capital was on a hill and bristling with Longbows. Besides, all the cool kids were getting vassals, why not me?
My good buddy Elizabeth then came by with another mutually beneficial deal:
She's awesome. And with Mercantile free specialists in every city, that would translate to a LOT of free research.
The Inca subjugated, I turned my attention to the barbarians that had been crouching on my doorstep for far too long. As I moved my troops into position, Lord McCauley graciously acknowledged my good points:
As the crusade against the heathen barbarians continued, the Persians came to me with a most generous offer:
As you can see in the background, I'm researching Steel. Maybe not the best of choices at this juncture, but I'm still holding out hope that I might get Liberalism in trade, and Steel is the other prerequisite for Railroads.
Qin then made me an offer I certainly couldn't refuse:
17 gold? Per turn? Sure, why not. It's not like he'll be bringing those Ironclads to my shores.
And then there's Mansa Musa. He hates my guts, but that doesn't stop him from filling my coffers and backfilling my tech library:
And heck, once the cat's out of the bag, you know your erstwhile monopoly tech is going to be all over the supercontinent within three turns:
So with lots of trading going on across the pond, we finally conquered those savage Oregonians and settled the Pacific coast:
Should San Francisco be Los Angeles? It's so hard to tell on this map.
Regardless, Cyrus came by, hat in hand, looking for Steam Power:
I made him pay up, which caused a bit of a rift (You refused to help us!), but was worth it for Astronomy.
With Liberalism finally in my grasp, I made a civics change:
And set a course for State Property. This should be a significant boon to our economy, both in eliminating a big chunk of maintenance costs and reopening trade routes (though the loss of all those free merchant specialists will be a blow).
This seemed like as good a place as any to stop. State of the world to follow.
To begin the round, I made the move to some wartime civics:
And began cranking out troops. My triremes quivered in anticipation outside Panama.
Meanwhile, Eurasia came at me with all sorts of crazy offers and demands.
I was more interested in the gold than Divine Right, but why not. Keep the Chinese happy, I always say. Especially after watching 24.
As little as Philosophy really means at this point, I had to say no here. Isabella has one city and no way to make boats. What could she possibly do to threaten me? I sent most of her emissary back to Spain. The heart sizzled on my Sacrificial Altar.
Speaking of which, it's awfully creepy that the Altars get the default Courthouse sound bite. Gives that "*Thwap* *Thwap* Order! Order!" a whole new meaning.
Louis, though, could hurt me. And how could I pass up the opportunity to say that the French ordered me to give them crabs? I'd rather get a couple of bucks for it, but I'm willing to keep the peace.
Russia came by and demanded our World Map. *shrug* Sure, why not. Knock yourself out. We're well past the point that the map has any real value.
Lovely Victoria came by with a most tempting offer:
I would have preferred Liberalism, but, hey: Grenadiers wouldn't hurt in the subjugation of the Inca.
Catherine then came back in a much more amicable mood and made her offer for Replaceable Parts:
Finally, with Chemistry being researched and a few triremes full of Macemen and Trebuchets, it was time to lay down the law with our primitive Incan buddies:
The trebuchets made a big difference in the war, obviously.
During the conflict, Alexander came by and offered me the trade of a lifetime:
... Wow. Had I known he was THAT backward, I'd've GIVEN him Civil Service. Get with the program, buddy! I'm thinking maybe the next game should use Alex, just to see if he can be a real factor in geopolitics.
With Chemistry researched, I was awfully tempted to go for Liberalism, but I was still holding out hope that I could acquire it in trade. So I went for:
As a tradeable tech, to get coal (a tradeable resource), to speed up workers, and as a prereq to Railroads (Our empire is getting a bit big for its britches).
As you can see, our conquest of the Inca empire is moving along quite nicely in the background. In fact, we took the next city in line and...
Our major objective was accomplished: We could settle South America without having to fight off Chilean culture. I probably should have smashed him to bits, but I was feeling sorry for the little guy and his capital was on a hill and bristling with Longbows. Besides, all the cool kids were getting vassals, why not me?
My good buddy Elizabeth then came by with another mutually beneficial deal:
She's awesome. And with Mercantile free specialists in every city, that would translate to a LOT of free research.
The Inca subjugated, I turned my attention to the barbarians that had been crouching on my doorstep for far too long. As I moved my troops into position, Lord McCauley graciously acknowledged my good points:
As the crusade against the heathen barbarians continued, the Persians came to me with a most generous offer:
As you can see in the background, I'm researching Steel. Maybe not the best of choices at this juncture, but I'm still holding out hope that I might get Liberalism in trade, and Steel is the other prerequisite for Railroads.
Qin then made me an offer I certainly couldn't refuse:
17 gold? Per turn? Sure, why not. It's not like he'll be bringing those Ironclads to my shores.
And then there's Mansa Musa. He hates my guts, but that doesn't stop him from filling my coffers and backfilling my tech library:
And heck, once the cat's out of the bag, you know your erstwhile monopoly tech is going to be all over the supercontinent within three turns:
So with lots of trading going on across the pond, we finally conquered those savage Oregonians and settled the Pacific coast:
Should San Francisco be Los Angeles? It's so hard to tell on this map.
Regardless, Cyrus came by, hat in hand, looking for Steam Power:
I made him pay up, which caused a bit of a rift (You refused to help us!), but was worth it for Astronomy.
With Liberalism finally in my grasp, I made a civics change:
And set a course for State Property. This should be a significant boon to our economy, both in eliminating a big chunk of maintenance costs and reopening trade routes (though the loss of all those free merchant specialists will be a blow).
This seemed like as good a place as any to stop. State of the world to follow.
Here's the diplomatic situation:
Confusing, huh? Well, here's how the vassal states break down, at least. Mali has sworn fealty to Egypt. Arabia and India are bound to Persia. The Mongols are the battle-slaves of the Chinese. Isabella has kneeled before Frederick. And, of course, Huayna is now our petulant little brother.
Rome is at war with Egypt, and will likely end up another vassal of Hatty's.
Here's our half of the world:
And everyone else's:
The score graph:
And the power graph:
And our domestic advisor:
Anything below the scroll bar is a size 1 city getting its initial Altar up and running.
Our military is weak, though not as weak as the power graph would suggest. We have a lot of cities with a lot of production and population. In addition, we have a lot of outdated units and a decent purse with which to upgrade them. Finally, we have the Atlantic Ocean. Any declaration of war will give us plenty of time to switch to Nationalism/Slavery, pump out and upgrade units. This way, we save both on production and maintenance costs for other things.
Scientifically, we're now one of the big boys. Due to different research paths, some other civs (the English in particular) have some techs that we don't, but we're usually able to trade for them. Once our South American cottage empire matures, we should pull ahead for good in that regard.
In terms of diplomacy, I feel I may have botched things up a bit. I was a little too opportunistic, taking deals as they came rather than maintaining a real foreign policy. At this point, I'm sure I've traded with everyone else's worst enemy at least twice. One bright spot, though, is that I'm on the good side of all of the superpowers. Saladin may hate me, but Cyrus loves me, and he wears the pants in their relationship.
Huayna's starting to buck at his reins a little bit, but, honestly, he has nothing to offer us anyway. I should probably have eliminated him, but that likely would have required another wave of troops and transport. He's not hurting anything, and his cities honestly aren't worth having.
Given all of these factors, it looks like we're going space race. We're perfectly situated to turtle up. We have plenty of research and production. We don't have the religions or wonders for Cultural Victory or the relations for Diplomatic. It's a little dull, but I know it'll work, and then we can move on to the next challenge.
What do you all think?
Confusing, huh? Well, here's how the vassal states break down, at least. Mali has sworn fealty to Egypt. Arabia and India are bound to Persia. The Mongols are the battle-slaves of the Chinese. Isabella has kneeled before Frederick. And, of course, Huayna is now our petulant little brother.
Rome is at war with Egypt, and will likely end up another vassal of Hatty's.
Here's our half of the world:
And everyone else's:
The score graph:
And the power graph:
And our domestic advisor:
Anything below the scroll bar is a size 1 city getting its initial Altar up and running.
Our military is weak, though not as weak as the power graph would suggest. We have a lot of cities with a lot of production and population. In addition, we have a lot of outdated units and a decent purse with which to upgrade them. Finally, we have the Atlantic Ocean. Any declaration of war will give us plenty of time to switch to Nationalism/Slavery, pump out and upgrade units. This way, we save both on production and maintenance costs for other things.
Scientifically, we're now one of the big boys. Due to different research paths, some other civs (the English in particular) have some techs that we don't, but we're usually able to trade for them. Once our South American cottage empire matures, we should pull ahead for good in that regard.
In terms of diplomacy, I feel I may have botched things up a bit. I was a little too opportunistic, taking deals as they came rather than maintaining a real foreign policy. At this point, I'm sure I've traded with everyone else's worst enemy at least twice. One bright spot, though, is that I'm on the good side of all of the superpowers. Saladin may hate me, but Cyrus loves me, and he wears the pants in their relationship.
Huayna's starting to buck at his reins a little bit, but, honestly, he has nothing to offer us anyway. I should probably have eliminated him, but that likely would have required another wave of troops and transport. He's not hurting anything, and his cities honestly aren't worth having.
Given all of these factors, it looks like we're going space race. We're perfectly situated to turtle up. We have plenty of research and production. We don't have the religions or wonders for Cultural Victory or the relations for Diplomatic. It's a little dull, but I know it'll work, and then we can move on to the next challenge.
What do you all think?
Very shrewd trading there I must say!! A thing of beauty. 
It seems like Elizabeth is leading the front for tech trades so try to maintain good relations with her in case you need a tech from her. Since you're going for space, beeline Rocketry and construct The Apollo Program and avoid trading this tech to the AI's. After that, just move towards all the techs only avoiding irrelevant ones for Space Victory like Refrigiration and such and keep tech trades to a minimum since you can research faster than them. I've had success with that strategy before. Also, try to get Communism soon and switch to State Property.
It seems like Elizabeth is leading the front for tech trades so try to maintain good relations with her in case you need a tech from her. Since you're going for space, beeline Rocketry and construct The Apollo Program and avoid trading this tech to the AI's. After that, just move towards all the techs only avoiding irrelevant ones for Space Victory like Refrigiration and such and keep tech trades to a minimum since you can research faster than them. I've had success with that strategy before. Also, try to get Communism soon and switch to State Property.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I have to disagree with dankok8 about the tech path if you go to space ( easiest way to win this IMHO ). Space race for you will be more of a science race than a production race ( you have half a dozen of good production cities and that's more than enough ), so I would advice computers before rocketry. The research bonus and the spaceship part production bonus will easily outrun any inconvenient of delaying apollo.
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
Can you bribe any wars in Europe? They would sure help slow down Europe's tech pace, making space race even easier.
Your plan also sounds good although I've never tried a beeline to Computers so I dont know how the speed of that approach compares to my approach. From my experience though, the AI's almost never sell any technologies that are used to make spaceship parts so Neal will likely need to research all of them including Rocketry.
I agree. Any chance you get, say, Russia and Hatty at each other's throats?
RockTheCazbah87
Pacal's pal
Awesome game. Hope it all goes well with the space victory...
Could someone give me a link for the earth map download if they have the time?
Could someone give me a link for the earth map download if they have the time?
good round. Possibly some over-trading. No domination attempt? 
I was looking forward to seeing aztecs over-run europe in the modern times. Oh well, some people enjoy going for space as much as any other victory. on your next game, i'd like to see lots of head busting action and a lot of vassals.
I've been playing earth/23 civs (no celts) with egypt and i'm going to push for a diplomatic victory. I just thought it would be neat to have global elections with so many civs.
I was looking forward to seeing aztecs over-run europe in the modern times. Oh well, some people enjoy going for space as much as any other victory. on your next game, i'd like to see lots of head busting action and a lot of vassals.
I've been playing earth/23 civs (no celts) with egypt and i'm going to push for a diplomatic victory. I just thought it would be neat to have global elections with so many civs.
Morgrad
Attack Rodent
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 367
Bravo! I'm really enjoying following this, and looking forward to the next one. What leader will you be using?
I agree with the computers beeline. Laboratries in all your science cities = faster techs for the whole spacerace, and laboratries in your production cities = faster spaceship production for every single part.
You should still finish Apollo before the AI builds its first Thruster, and you be at the other needed techs that much faster to build the rest.
I agree with the computers beeline. Laboratries in all your science cities = faster techs for the whole spacerace, and laboratries in your production cities = faster spaceship production for every single part.
You should still finish Apollo before the AI builds its first Thruster, and you be at the other needed techs that much faster to build the rest.
r_rolo1
King of myself
First, AI never sell Space techs ( it's hard-coded ), so unless we go Internet (late, late wonder ) we'll have to research all the space techs by ourselfs. That's where the lab research bonus enters.
Another benifit of beelining Computers is that Apollo is counted as a spacepart in terms of the lab bonus, so you can actually finish it earlier if you go computers and go to Rocketry while building labs.
Sometimes, in space race, I even go Computers-> .... -> Industrialism-> ... -> Rocketry . Even if a handful of AI's already has already the 5 casings and even 1 or 2 thursters ready, you'll most surely beat them to Fusion and the other expensive techs and with luck ( read alluminium ) you'll build spaceparts twice as fast. With a little MM, you can even finish all the parts in the same turn
( I never did it, but already saw a game wher that was done and is surely impressive IMHO )Similar threads
