King of the World #11: Darius I

[Gooblah]

Considering the research base you have, I'd make a run for Steel ASAP. Whether or not you advance towards Grenadiers is dependent on the current state of military affairs. Steel unlocks Cannons, which will be essential if you don't want to quadruple the number of Trebs you have (okay, maybe double, but still). They'll also cut through Roman soldiers like butter.

Start settling Scandinavia and eastern Russia; you'll want to cut off Rome from expansion.

 

[r_rolo1]

Quick overlook of the save:

First, I believe that someone told you that hannibal was going to build the AP.....

Spoiler :

Second, I believe that you may be in far deeper problems than you think:

Spoiler :

China is gearing for war... and I do know some people that had warred China sometime ago Seriously, I do believe that you have a big chance of being dogpiled by the chinese ( the other option is that QSH is planning to take Toku down... )

 

[IAM]

Wow doesn't look to good. Hind site alert: I have found it productive to vassal an AI as soon as they are willing. Rarely I won't because a few more turns will give me a fat juicy holy shrine or something but otherwise I vassal them quickly.

I think it's time to pull all the stops out and build military and try to get some other war/diversion started. If nothing else try to smash Romes stack asap and maybe you can get peace and give you some time/space to turn this around.

All in all very enjoyable. Oh and quit that job it's interfering with civ.

 

[huerfanista]

@Neal
re:Eridu - reasonable point about Greek culture, I overlooked that. Nonetheless, you may be fighting for your life if Rolo's right about Qin, so culture wars may have to take a back seat to survival. And there's one sure way to win a culture war with Greece.

I'd be sure to have a few cats in Odessa to collateral that Roman stack before wiping it out. A quick counterattack to Neapolis (you could take it in 2 turns due to your cultural pressure on the borders) could buy you peace, especially if Qin dogpiles. If you haven't already, direct all EPs to Rome and have some spies ready to take down the cultural D. It's way easier than building 16 more trebs or taking 4 turns to bombard.

If Qin attacks through Chengdu, I'd put move out of the city to let him take it, then counterattack. If you can beat back his initial attack, I bet he'd take Chengdu for peace (at worst). You can afford to give it up temporarily.

All you really need is some time to mobilize your military to wipe out the Romans. Once that's done, the game will be over regardless of what Qin does.

 

[dutchfire]

Julius seems to be very light on seige. If you get that castle in Odessa, it'll be pretty though for him to take down. Just get some damn pikemen in there!

 

[Eye of Sauron]

Julius has almost no siege in his army, it will take him ages to bring down the cultural defence so wall+castle will be a good investment, and prates have very poor odds against mace, the knights and elephants are the only really threatening thing in his army, whip pikes in Moscow and Odessa , this plus moving in some mace and upgrading some archer will likely hold him off for a while

 

[Rubbaduck]

Two defenders in rome... Within galley distance from borders... This calls for *drumroll* AN AMPIHBIOUS ELEPHANT INVASION

No, seriously, a small fleet could take his capital along with a bunch of wonders right at the start, making him a) Lose his capital along with all it's economical goodies b) Divert some resources from the front lines and also in any case give you a peace deal faster. I would definately send like 5 galleys or so with 1:1 siege:attacker loads while attacking with a bigger force from land.

Then again I like to do those kinds elaborate and show-offy schemes at all possible times, even when they are certain failures

EDIT: I forgot that the war was on already... Well, the point still stands. Take Rome from the sea!
EDIT2: I also forgot the naval-siege nerf. Never mind this post.

 

[Hackapell]

It looks to me as if the next round is going to make or break the game. If you can weather the Roman storm and prepare for the inevitable Chinese stab, you can transition to offense and wipe out one of the major players on the map.

As many have noted, Jules has no siege in his visible stack. you have stone, and a modest garrison on the russian front. insert walls and castles, and quickly whip them for instant defense and hammer overflow so you can get those civilian builds over and done with to transition towards pikes and maces. In the main core cities, gear up with trebs and pikes. you want to send some troops to the north to begin to form a major stack and repel Jules' waves, but you should also shore up your indian holdings with supplementary troops. Keep your main army there to deal with Qin; defensive actions with siege require far less troops than major offensive campaigns. You may also want to have a small force ready to take greece if Qin dogpiles you.

Overall. just keep in mind that you have huge amounts of land, and 20+ cities. If you have them all perform 5 military builds next round, your power level will skyrocket. Remember the Jules and Qin's power level is also augmented by their vassals, so they aren't as formidable as the stats would let on. there aren't many desirable wonders or civilian build going on right now, so focus on your immediate survival.

 

[Matthew5117]

I like that idea!

Seriously, you could whip 3 galleys and 1 trireme. Load 4 elephants and 2 trebutchets. Suicide the trebutchets and attack with the elephants. Make it ASAP though.

Then take peace. Prepare against Qin, when your done with him, use Rome and Odessa as launching points for you SoD. A two-fronted war.

Although it wouldn't be the best and most ideal strategy, it sure would make an entertaining read!

If your really cautious about losing the game, use Hackapell's ideas. Besides, if you attacked with Amphibious Elephants, you'd have to face 125% defense bonus...

 

[huerfanista]

@Matthew

Seriously, you could whip 3 galleys and 1 trireme. Load 4 elephants and 2 trebutchets. Suicide the trebutchets and attack with the elephants. Make it ASAP though.

Neal dowsn't have HBR yet!!!

I had a look at the save.
1. Odessa couldn't be a more inviting target. In spite of the castle, you have forests immediately adjacent to the city, where Caesar can park his stack. This is a very big mistake. All of your workers are in africa, except for a couple who probably can't get there in time if Rome moves against you. I don't think that stack he's building is a bluff.
2. Why on earth don't you have HBR yet??? Wellies are the best possible counter to his knights/xbows. Even if you research it now, it's doubtful that you could get stables up in time to make them truly useful.
3. If China comes in against you (I think it's likely), you have no counters to cho-ko-nu's (i.e. mounted units), and he will bring Hannibal, Wang, and Pericles as well. It will be one heck of a dogpile. Prepare to whip your cities to the bone to fend them off.
4. I would upgrade whatever you can, and turn the slider down as well to keep cash high for more upgrades.
5. Switch to HBR immediately (you can research it in 2 turns). You need pikes and wellies right away.
6. If you can get any workers to Odessa quickly, do so and chop those forests. You may only have 4 or 5 turns before Odessa is under seige.

 

[Matthew5117]

He doesn't need HBR for elephants...

Edit: Checked. Your right.

 

[IAM]

If you go with an amphibious invasion of Rome, not likely with time constraints, then just raze it. Better to destroy it than let it fall back into that narcissist hands.

No horse back riding yet .

Pikemen defense yes. Hit them with collateral damage cats. You can do it.

 

[huerfanista]

A couple more thoughts after looking at the save (I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think the situation is much more serious than I first thought):
1. You're more than halfway thru education and you still haven't switched to bureaucracy (I don't think you can afford the anarchy right now).
2. You have nothing to counter Rome's stack with. They will camp in the trees outside Odessa, and even if you collateral them you probably can't take that stack out.
3. I'd get as many units to Odessa as possible without leaving India naked. In particular, you have a GG heading towards Persepolis that could be used for a medic3 there (you have a M3 warrior in India, but you may need him there soon as well). You have some trebs near Odessa, so get as many there as you can. They will be nearly useless for attacking his stack outside of the city. But with the few seige Rome has, it will take 5 or more turns to bombard the defense down (unless he brings more trebs from somewhere). When it looks like the defenses will fall the next turn, move all of your units outside the city, let him take it, and then attack with the trebs. The cultural D will be gone, and your trebs will be able to do what they're made for: city attack. Also, most of your maces have CR promos, so this is where they will shine as well. Upgrade as many immortals/archers/spears as you can.
4. Will liberating Chengdu to Qin buy you a 10 turn peace treaty? It may be worth it.
5. Ashoka has guilds, and if Caesar trades him horses he will be able to make knights, which you really have no counter for at the moment.

 

[Eye of Sauron]

A couple more thoughts after looking at the save (I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think the situation is much more serious than I first thought):
1. You're more than halfway thru education and you still haven't switched to bureaucracy (I don't think you can afford the anarchy right now).
2. You have nothing to counter Rome's stack with. They will camp in the trees outside Odessa, and even if you collateral them you probably can't take that stack out.
3. I'd get as many units to Odessa as possible without leaving India naked. In particular, you have a GG heading towards Persepolis that could be used for a medic3 there (you have a M3 warrior in India, but you may need him there soon as well). You have some trebs near Odessa, so get as many there as you can. They will be nearly useless for attacking his stack outside of the city. But with the few seige Rome has, it will take 5 or more turns to bombard the defense down (unless he brings more trebs from somewhere). When it looks like the defenses will fall the next turn, move all of your units outside the city, let him take it, and then attack with the trebs. The cultural D will be gone, and your trebs will be able to do what they're made for: city attack. Also, most of your maces have CR promos, so this is where they will shine as well. Upgrade as many immortals/archers/spears as you can.
4. Will liberating Chengdu to Qin buy you a 10 turn peace treaty? It may be worth it.
5. Ashoka has guilds, and if Caesar trades him horses he will be able to make knights, which you really have no counter for at the moment.

asoka is finished in term of production , he also has no way of trading and linking up with Julius unless the Romans overrun Neal's Russian cities in which case he is got a far bigger problem,

 

[huerfanista]

asoka is finished in term of production , he also has no way of trading and linking up with Julius unless the Romans overrun Neal's Russian cities in which case he is got a far bigger problem,

Ashoka still has 3-4 cities and can be a pest. Neal's army in India is pretty well spent, and if China DOWs he will be hard-pressed to keep any of those cities. Any units he loses to Ashoka's knights will be that many fewer to fight off Qin (who will undoubtedly have a large stack of xbow chokonus, which are very nasty to deal with without mounted units of his own).

 

[Ranfal Spectrum]

Well, let's see here. Julie is very strong, Asoka, not so much anymore. As long as you're still at war with the both of them, I suggest you use the opportunity. Crush the rest of the Indian Civilization into dust, and fast. That, unless I'm mistaken, should alleviate some of Julie's anger at you if Asoka no longer exists. Use that to make peace (I don't think we could get anything out of it x3. Maybe just aim for not having to pay for peace?) Julie's buildin' up a fair army there, and the great Persian Empire could use some infrastructure build up in it's new acquisitions.

I'm also thinking that fighting off ol' Pericles, what with his booming culture in Sparta and Athens, might be more benificial than an extensive and defensive war with Rome. Get peace with the Romans as fast as you can (Once Asoka is dead, of course =3) and then focus on removing that tiny little stain of Greek annoyance on the map.

LONG LIVE XERXES.

 

[pigswill]

Chances are Neal won't get peace with Jules until Neal convinces Jules that war won't get him anywhere which probably means inflicting significant casualties (cities or units) without suffering significant losses (cities or units).

 

[Eye of Sauron]

Ashoka still has 3-4 cities and can be a pest. Neal's army in India is pretty well spent, and if China DOWs he will be hard-pressed to keep any of those cities. Any units he loses to Ashoka's knights will be that many fewer to fight off Qin (who will undoubtedly have a large stack of xbow chokonus, which are very nasty to deal with without mounted units of his own).

Ashoka only has 2 cities near Neal, both of which are food and production poor and cut off from the Romans so Indian knights are not going to be an issue, as for Qin he dosent even have machinery right now so no chokonus, by the time he gets them to the front line Neal's Indian cities should be out of revolt and producing longbows

 

[CHEESE!]

I really have nothing to say but THE ROMANS ARE SCARY!!!

 

[Gooblah]

Why are you beefing up Eridu?

The Roman stack is moving up north towards Odessa (where you have forests in the initial 8 tiles!). Pericles is owned by Qin Shi Huang whom you're not at war with.

You also don't have Horseback Riding, meaning you can't upgrade veteran Immortals -> Knights.

Civics: WTH is going on, man? No Bureaucracy or Theocracy (due to tech choices); at least Vassalage would help! You're XERXES/DARIUS for crying out loud! You can afford High civic costs!

World: No exploration. Damn. For all you know, Rome controls Russia, Europe, and Africa. Hannibal has been steadily expanding, but to where? Who knows? China has a ton of cities...in Indonesia? Australia? Russia? Again, we have no idea! Without exploration, you won't know how to forestall attacks!

Sorry if this comes off as a really harsh attack, but I hate to see a) a veteran player and b) a usually intelligent player make some foolish mistakes.