CreeDakota
King
Jules will be right back to war with you after the 10 turns are up I imagine. If you can delay signing peace for 4-5 turns do so. This will give you the longest window to fight China and Greece without Rome threat.
King of the World #11: Darius I
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
Matthew5117
Emperor
Neal, when you have a situation like this. Don't ignore it. I've never seen a conversation like this!
I don't like the idea of fortifying on the jungle hill because its risky. Qin can go on the other hill and you lose all your fortifying bonuses in the city. Even so, if you fortify on the other hill, he might attack with all of his seige first (like a smart AI would do...) and you'll lose the chance to save your city.
Remember, if only one AI hurts you power rating, the rest of the AI will consider you weaker and thus you won't be able to sign peace as easily.
Very intriguing read though!
1000th post!!!!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
I don't like the idea of fortifying on the jungle hill because its risky. Qin can go on the other hill and you lose all your fortifying bonuses in the city. Even so, if you fortify on the other hill, he might attack with all of his seige first (like a smart AI would do...) and you'll lose the chance to save your city.
Remember, if only one AI hurts you power rating, the rest of the AI will consider you weaker and thus you won't be able to sign peace as easily.
Very intriguing read though!
1000th post!!!!
Hereditary Rule
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2007
- Messages
- 294
Don't do the beg for gold to stop a DoW. For some reason that feels like a horrible exploit. 
EDIT:
And some advice.
Trade Education for everything you can get. Liberalism isn't the end all, be all - I've won plenty of games where I missed liberalism.
If you know you can get gunpowder in a trade I'd consider Nationalism. You should secure Philo from one of those trades, which should allow you to start teching nationalism (IIRC, I don't have the tech tree in front of me). Switch to nationhood and draft the hell outta your numerous cities to ensure none of these AI's threaten your cities in the foreseeable future. Muskets make fine defenders against most medieval units - you can supplement with manually built pikes to help with the knights.
EDIT:
And some advice.
Trade Education for everything you can get. Liberalism isn't the end all, be all - I've won plenty of games where I missed liberalism.
If you know you can get gunpowder in a trade I'd consider Nationalism. You should secure Philo from one of those trades, which should allow you to start teching nationalism (IIRC, I don't have the tech tree in front of me). Switch to nationhood and draft the hell outta your numerous cities to ensure none of these AI's threaten your cities in the foreseeable future. Muskets make fine defenders against most medieval units - you can supplement with manually built pikes to help with the knights.
Gooblah
Heh...
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,282
I suggest focusing on Qin.
Qin can attack from east, west, and south (Qin/Wang, Pericles, and Hannibal respectively). If r_rolo is correct (which he is), then the Battle of Chengdu will result in the ultimate fall of the greater part of his power rating, meaning that he could become prime meat for Rome. With the vassaling averages and the slump in power, combined with close border tensions in Russia, I wouldn't be surprised if Julius DOWs on Qin. Once that happens you're safe with Rome.
Just hand over Education to Julius, then beeline for Computers/Internet. Finish off with a Space Race.
Qin can attack from east, west, and south (Qin/Wang, Pericles, and Hannibal respectively). If r_rolo is correct (which he is), then the Battle of Chengdu will result in the ultimate fall of the greater part of his power rating, meaning that he could become prime meat for Rome. With the vassaling averages and the slump in power, combined with close border tensions in Russia, I wouldn't be surprised if Julius DOWs on Qin. Once that happens you're safe with Rome.
Just hand over Education to Julius, then beeline for Computers/Internet. Finish off with a Space Race.
Eye of Sauron
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2007
- Messages
- 8
wipe out Julius's siege stack near Eridu then take peace. try to trade for gunpowder and theology while teching banking this will keep your economy afloat in the coming war.
as for Qin beg gold to get 10 more turn of peace, use this time to wipe a castle in Chengdu and knights all over india, if possible chop down the jungle near the border to reduce cover for Qin's troop.
long term Julius is the bigger threat due to his better land and he is already starting to run away with techs , more importantly it will be easier to hold off Qin at the Burma gap then the Romans all over the western front
as for Qin beg gold to get 10 more turn of peace, use this time to wipe a castle in Chengdu and knights all over india, if possible chop down the jungle near the border to reduce cover for Qin's troop.
long term Julius is the bigger threat due to his better land and he is already starting to run away with techs , more importantly it will be easier to hold off Qin at the Burma gap then the Romans all over the western front
@HR: I don't consider that begging trick as an exploit as it doesn't stop the DOW at all. It just gives you 10 turns to organize. Call it unfair, but you can't consider human - AI diplo fair at any point anyway, so...
I don't think stopping war vs JC will change much (though I can't look at the save due to ancient pc) as your units would likely take more turns to travel to your eastern borders than it takes to kill QSH's SOD. Unless you buy yourself 10 turns of additional peace, that is...
I don't think stopping war vs JC will change much (though I can't look at the save due to ancient pc) as your units would likely take more turns to travel to your eastern borders than it takes to kill QSH's SOD. Unless you buy yourself 10 turns of additional peace, that is...
r_rolo1
King of myself
Wierd, Gooblah....
Spoiler :
r_rolo1
King of myself
@Gooblah
Spoiler :
Gooblah
Heh...
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,282
@Gooblah
Spoiler :
Neal:
Going off Rolo's advice, and considering that you have already played the next turn (or, peeked at it), here's Caesar's price (in a spoiler in case you don't wanna read, Neal).
Spoiler :
IAM
Emperor
No! Neal don't. Tell Rome they can have your gold when they pry it from your cold dead hands.
Wow. Gotta say, I'm enjoying the discussion this whole war has started. In fact, I'm so impressed that I'm inspired to give the next round a go tonight or tomorrow. I love how when I think I'm doing fine, everyone's telling me how I've made an utter hash of things. But then, when I think I'm hanging on by my fingernails, suddently the crowd congratulates me for doing a great job 
Anyway, that gold price for peace is... awfully low. And the GPT wouldn't even hurt TOO much once I get that Spartan shrine up and running. Thanks, guys!
Anyway, that gold price for peace is... awfully low. And the GPT wouldn't even hurt TOO much once I get that Spartan shrine up and running. Thanks, guys!
Hackapell
Rhetorician
You have a simple conundrum before you. Next turn, you face war on two fronts. No successful general has ever handled that well. You have two simple ways to get peace. Take them both, and build up for the inevitable. Spend those ten turns shoring up defenses on both sides, preparing to take Greece, building and researching military, trading around education (forget Lib at this point), and waiting for doomsday. When they attack, make sure you catch their armies in open terrain hit them with cats (not trebs), flank them with mounted nits, and finish them off. For Qin, let him suicide on your castle and take out his allies. Since Hannibal is a vassal of Qin, see if you cant make a presicion strike against Utica (Home of the AP) and capture or eliminate it.
You've got a shot, but you need time to build up to weather the storm.
You've got a shot, but you need time to build up to weather the storm.
Churchill's Hat
Mortal
I disagree. Paying off Rome is a good idea, but China should be stopped just before you pay off Rome.
You can take Qin Shi Huang on the Eastern front, whether by waiting in Chengdu or attacking him this turn (you have 20 maces and xbows, he has 20 non-siege units, including just 1 macemen) and you will suffer minimal losses. The key to the Chinese war is continual buildup in Chengdu without going into China-- if you fight it on his terms, he can attack your stack with all his siege and he will destroy you. Just wait for his stacks, and then buy him off. Meanwhile, you can build up for Caesar's assault while hoping he attacks China.
pigswill
fly (one day)
General observation. It is possible to keep up with Rome on immortal:
Spoiler :
All right, another fairly short round. But a lot of people died in just a few turns, so bear with me.
Xerxes scanned the reports with a scowl. Julius Caesar had sent his men to Odessa and his Siege to Eridu. Rome was willing to declare peace for a substantial tribute of gold, but such a debt would cripple Persian research. No, Xerxes instead chose to burn Caesar's siege and give him what he really needed:
Perhaps the Persian system of Education would enlighten Julius as to the wisdom of sending one's Trebuchets and army to the same place. And, besides, if we are to get everything we can for Education, we are letting the proverbial slave out of the pen anyway, so is peace not a fair trade?
Sadly, nobody else was willing to give us too terribly much for Education, save our future enemy, Pericles:
Xerxes did not forge the Persian empire and achieve his fabulous look by being modest. He was a risk-taker! With Philosophy in hand, he immediately began research on Liberalism. Caesar was intent on learning the secrets of Chemistry. He was sure to delay teaching his people the finer points of the Liberal Arts. Xerxes detested them, himself, but if it held the technological key that so many of his advisors said it did, it would be worth sullying his hands.
In 940 A.D., indeed, the time for talking with Qin Shi Huang was over:
The forces outside Chengdu built fortifications, driving the civilian population to build them a castle as Chinese Catapults moved into position.
A small force of Macemen and Trebuchets left Chengdu in the dead of night, sneaking south towards Sakae. Perhaps having seen them leave, or possibly out of uncontrollable bloodlust, a number of Chinese troops threw themselves at the city's Walls before their commanders could rein them in:
And, oddly enough, the Catapults were silent this turn, which allowed the Castle to go up without loss of fortification. A few turns of unquiet peace settled in, as the Chinese siege weapons thudded dully against the city's defenses.
In the west, meanwhile, a two-pronged attack from Odessa and Eridu converged on Sparta:
Had Pericles not chosen to throw in with the sinister Chinese, this unfortunate siege would have been unnecessary. Though, to be fair, Greece had failed in its simple task of keeping Rome out of Russia, so this could be seen as just punishment.
Sparta, as so much of the world, fell under Persian control:
With the Temple of Solomon surviving the siege, the Great Prophet standing ready in Thebes settled in permanently, spurring on production and providing tithes to the coffers.
In the east, meanwhile, Xerxes stood poised to rout the Chinese from the Malay peninsula:
No Wonders, sadly, or even Great People beyond a lone General, but Sakae commanded bountiful Plantations and rich Towns. It was well worth the Maintenance.
Back in Greece, a ragtag band of Persian bushwackers descended on the Greek settlement of Corinth:
With more traditional forces pummeling the Walls of Athens, I was forced to send what I could to bring down Corinth. If Pericles was to die, he was to die. I would not permit Greece to live a useless existence as a ghost-Civilization in Africa, disheartening Athens and Sparta with memories of ancient freedom.
During the fighting, something magical happened:
Leonidas born to Greece during a war with Persia in which Immortals were involved! Brilliant!
It was too bad that Leonidas wasn't the brilliant warrior he was in history. Even if he was, he couldn't have done much. Someone called in the cavalry:
Qin's days are surely numbered now, and those of his vassals with him. He now stands against the numberless hordes of the thousand nations of Persia, and the stolid Centurions of the Roman Empire. China's backwards forces, though numerous, will be mown down like wheat!
Xerxes, normally content to take his advisors' suggestions to heart, laughed heartily with the development of Liberalism. They had told him to ignore it, that it was a race that he could not win. Well, win it he had, and he was going to take what he believed to be the choicest spoil:
Gunpowder and even Nationalism were beginning to pop up on Tech screens, and, for now, Astronomy was of little use. Printing Press, though, would be unique amongst the nations of the world, and it would improve the numerous Towns dotting Egypt and Mesopotamia. It was also an important step towards Replacable Parts and Rifling.
In 1040 A.D., the Persian irregulars finally torched Corinth:
And the proper Western Army took Athens:
Pericles is no more and, as you can see, down in the lower right, Leonidas works for me now.
So at this point I throw it back to you. China is willing to give up much for peace:
P'yongyang is a powerful city, deep in the heart of China, but it would be... rather isolated at this point. Sadly, Qin is not willing to consider giving up Guangzhou.
Which is a shame, since I'm poised to attack it:
Not a great army, which is why I'd like him to cede it without a fight.
Here's a look at the world as a whole:
Not too terribly much to see here, I don't think. I believe my objectives right now are to go on the offensive with China, and rebuild and remobilize my Western forces to maybe take Utica off of Hannibal's hands.
The power graph:
As you can see, Julie's in military build-up mode again, which is scary. but his ire seems to be focused on China right now, which is a good thing.
The tech situation:
Who would've thought that Boudica would be a tech leader? Well, I guess she is England at this point...
Finally, the tangled Diplomacy web:
So here we are. How did I do? What should I do next? How's the weather? How 'bout them Cowboys?
Here's the save:
Xerxes scanned the reports with a scowl. Julius Caesar had sent his men to Odessa and his Siege to Eridu. Rome was willing to declare peace for a substantial tribute of gold, but such a debt would cripple Persian research. No, Xerxes instead chose to burn Caesar's siege and give him what he really needed:
Perhaps the Persian system of Education would enlighten Julius as to the wisdom of sending one's Trebuchets and army to the same place. And, besides, if we are to get everything we can for Education, we are letting the proverbial slave out of the pen anyway, so is peace not a fair trade?
Sadly, nobody else was willing to give us too terribly much for Education, save our future enemy, Pericles:
Xerxes did not forge the Persian empire and achieve his fabulous look by being modest. He was a risk-taker! With Philosophy in hand, he immediately began research on Liberalism. Caesar was intent on learning the secrets of Chemistry. He was sure to delay teaching his people the finer points of the Liberal Arts. Xerxes detested them, himself, but if it held the technological key that so many of his advisors said it did, it would be worth sullying his hands.
In 940 A.D., indeed, the time for talking with Qin Shi Huang was over:
The forces outside Chengdu built fortifications, driving the civilian population to build them a castle as Chinese Catapults moved into position.
A small force of Macemen and Trebuchets left Chengdu in the dead of night, sneaking south towards Sakae. Perhaps having seen them leave, or possibly out of uncontrollable bloodlust, a number of Chinese troops threw themselves at the city's Walls before their commanders could rein them in:
And, oddly enough, the Catapults were silent this turn, which allowed the Castle to go up without loss of fortification. A few turns of unquiet peace settled in, as the Chinese siege weapons thudded dully against the city's defenses.
In the west, meanwhile, a two-pronged attack from Odessa and Eridu converged on Sparta:
Had Pericles not chosen to throw in with the sinister Chinese, this unfortunate siege would have been unnecessary. Though, to be fair, Greece had failed in its simple task of keeping Rome out of Russia, so this could be seen as just punishment.
Sparta, as so much of the world, fell under Persian control:
With the Temple of Solomon surviving the siege, the Great Prophet standing ready in Thebes settled in permanently, spurring on production and providing tithes to the coffers.
In the east, meanwhile, Xerxes stood poised to rout the Chinese from the Malay peninsula:
No Wonders, sadly, or even Great People beyond a lone General, but Sakae commanded bountiful Plantations and rich Towns. It was well worth the Maintenance.
Back in Greece, a ragtag band of Persian bushwackers descended on the Greek settlement of Corinth:
With more traditional forces pummeling the Walls of Athens, I was forced to send what I could to bring down Corinth. If Pericles was to die, he was to die. I would not permit Greece to live a useless existence as a ghost-Civilization in Africa, disheartening Athens and Sparta with memories of ancient freedom.
During the fighting, something magical happened:
Leonidas born to Greece during a war with Persia in which Immortals were involved! Brilliant!
It was too bad that Leonidas wasn't the brilliant warrior he was in history. Even if he was, he couldn't have done much. Someone called in the cavalry:
Qin's days are surely numbered now, and those of his vassals with him. He now stands against the numberless hordes of the thousand nations of Persia, and the stolid Centurions of the Roman Empire. China's backwards forces, though numerous, will be mown down like wheat!
Xerxes, normally content to take his advisors' suggestions to heart, laughed heartily with the development of Liberalism. They had told him to ignore it, that it was a race that he could not win. Well, win it he had, and he was going to take what he believed to be the choicest spoil:
Gunpowder and even Nationalism were beginning to pop up on Tech screens, and, for now, Astronomy was of little use. Printing Press, though, would be unique amongst the nations of the world, and it would improve the numerous Towns dotting Egypt and Mesopotamia. It was also an important step towards Replacable Parts and Rifling.
In 1040 A.D., the Persian irregulars finally torched Corinth:
And the proper Western Army took Athens:
Pericles is no more and, as you can see, down in the lower right, Leonidas works for me now.
So at this point I throw it back to you. China is willing to give up much for peace:
P'yongyang is a powerful city, deep in the heart of China, but it would be... rather isolated at this point. Sadly, Qin is not willing to consider giving up Guangzhou.
Which is a shame, since I'm poised to attack it:
Not a great army, which is why I'd like him to cede it without a fight.
Here's a look at the world as a whole:
Not too terribly much to see here, I don't think. I believe my objectives right now are to go on the offensive with China, and rebuild and remobilize my Western forces to maybe take Utica off of Hannibal's hands.
The power graph:
As you can see, Julie's in military build-up mode again, which is scary. but his ire seems to be focused on China right now, which is a good thing.
The tech situation:
Who would've thought that Boudica would be a tech leader? Well, I guess she is England at this point...
Finally, the tangled Diplomacy web:
So here we are. How did I do? What should I do next? How's the weather? How 'bout them Cowboys?
Here's the save:
