King of the World, Open game, Chapter I :Hatshepsut

[r_rolo1]

The Earth 18 civs was one of the most popular scenarios brought by Vanilla Civ : 18 civilizations in a hand made map, with every civ facing diferent chalenges and oportunities ( European civs cramped in a tiny space, with no option except to fight each other or to expand overseas, the Incas cramped between the Pacific and the Andes, the Americans with wide open spaces to the west, like the Russians to the east, etc ) make it a very interesting variation of the normal maps ( especially before BtS, when the map scripts created less than varied maps ).
After our friend Neal had started ( and unfortunately not finished ) 2 games with this map in Warlords, it was suggested than a Open game using this map would be a good idea. So I decided to open a game where to discuss and apply strategies about this particular map. As the scenario exists in all the Civ IV incarnations, players using Vanilla , Warlords of BtS are welcomed to play and share their experiences ( in spite of some buildings ,techs and wonders could make a diference. For a example in vanilla Mali and Egypt were swarmed by barbs because they simply couldn't fill Africa before of barbs start to swarm in strengh. The Great Wall in Warlords and BtS can help a bit with that... )

Because we don't have any kind of bias against any civ, it was choosed the first civ that appears when we load the scenario ( Single Player -> Load a scenario -> Earth 18 civs ), the Egyptians leaded by Hatshepsut ( aka Hatty ) :

Spoiler :

Hatty has the War Chariot as UU ( a stronger chariot immune to first strikes enabled by the wheel and horses ( that requires Animal Husbandry ) ), that became more useful with the inclusion of a anti axeman bonus to all chariot type units in Warlords and BtS. In Warlords and in BtS, Hatty also has a UB, the Obelisk, that replaces the monument ( thay in vanilla is called Obelisk :crazyeyes: ) and enables the hiring of two priests, leading to all kind of religious flavour strategies and Great Prophet settling ......

Here is the start:

Spoiler :

The touch of a hand made map.... riverside incense floodplain, riverside stone floodplain and riverside marble flooplain . Of course that so much FP means heavy and besides the marble and the stone, no in sight....

This are the settings that I am going to use ( BtS 3.13, no Bhruic patch to patch ):

Spoiler :

I'll try to post in every 100 turns a small report saying what I did and what happened and I would like to see some others from other players ( of course that you aren't obliged to that.... this for fun ,not a competition ).

First, some thoughts:
I don't play this scenario for a long time ( since Vanilla ), but I do recall that thre are horses nearby ( not sure if in the BFC )... but the nearest civ is Persia , not exactly the better candidate to a chariot rush . There are a lot of wonder options as well..... the Henge ( good synergy with the UB ), the GW ( no barb problems ), the Pyramids ( early Rep ), Oracle ( do I really need to explain? ).... maybe a Obsolete-type strategy may be in hand.
As far as I can remember, there are not good production sites nearby ( the nearest place is in Eastern Anatolia and I'm not sure that we can get there before Cyrus ) so BW may be in hand as well, even if only for pop control...

Oh well, good luck to all, and let the games begin !!!

 

[shyuhe]

what difficulty and game speed are you going to play on? It'll probably help if we all play with the same settings. I've never played an earth game but I'll give it a try until my computer dies.

 

[tycoonist]

you could rush Saladin instead...

 

[Hackapell]

Ramsess II would have been overkill here...
Rush saladin and musa, conquer Africa, head to the stars.
You don't mind if I play warlords and play at Noble, right?

 

[r_rolo1]

@shyuhe
Check image on third spoiler ( monarch, epic speed )

@tycoonist

True enough..... I forgot him. But if I can remember well, he has crappy land, not worthing the effort

@Hackapell

Ramesses would be really a overkill here, but this is a Vanilla scenario....
And play what level, speeed and plataform you wish

 

[Gwil]

I will most likely join on this - I have been looking at the Earth map with some joy, just for the "lol Risk" element of it alone is fun. I'll probably play BtS/Prince and see how I fare.

 

[cheffster]

I'm most definatly playing this one with the exact settings: epic/monarch.

marble/stone/wheat ON the floodplains in the initial fatcross

I've never seen a better start, period, that is once you fix the health problem.

Never played 18-civ earth scenario, really looking forward to this one, great idea rolo

 

[MrFelony]

France's start is even better IMO. stone, marble, wheat, horses, Iron, coal, AND clams. and its Luis XIV so he's industrious...AND he's cultural. you can flip london before the ADs easy.

Saladin has crappy land, but he almost always founds hinduism so he's worth the rush, because his location can mean it spreads to +40% of the world with nets 50-70GPT from the shrine if you get trade routes set up fast. I find that one fo the most important things is to get a religion set up fast along with the trade routes with the shrine if possible so the trade routes open up as soon as possible meaning your religion spreads as fast as possible. I'll probably play on emperor and just REX all of Africa.

 

[r_rolo1]

^^I already played 80 turns ( couldn't play more , terribe toothache )
and Saladin remained atheistic until Confu spread to them.... but well, in this game Alex founded Buddhism .... Will see if I am able to play and post today.

 

[MrFelony]

the first game I played, Isabella managed somehow to not found Buddhism, but besides that it's almost always been Isabella founds Buddhism and Saladin Hinduism. I'll probably get around to playing it sometime soon. either tomorrow or tuesday

 

[pawelo]

Wouldn't I have been involved in so many projects, RL work and fiancée overload, some minimum sleeping time, I would definitely gave this one a try

Stone&marble floodplains seems a little bit overkill but what a great epic game would it be.

I'll be sure to book some time for your games in the near future r_rolo!

 

[cheffster]

I've played to 1800BC.

I most often get "the villagers are hostile" from huts, but check this out:

Spoiler :

my capital, i settled 1NW from start to avoidbeing too unhealthy from the flood plains.

 

[slobberinbear]

This is my favorite scenario, and my favorite start. Love Egypt.

I'm going to try for a Specialist Economy with three core cities: (1) at the start location, (2) a "Nubia" city south of Thebes near the elephant tile, and (3) near modern-day Israel. For added historical flavor, I will attempt to found Judaism and build the Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, and Great Library.

My real question is how to best run a SE with Hatty. I see two options there:

1. Representation + Caste System, running scientists (and merchants when necessary). Good news: lots of scientists. Bad news: requires CoL and lacks way to rush production and/or reduce unhappiness.
2. Representation + Slavery, running scientists and priests (using Obelisks and Temples). Good news: uses UB, allows for pop-rushing. Priests provide a good all-around boost to commerce, production, and research (with representation). Bad news: Number of scientist specialists capped at 2.

I'm going to try option 2. I figure every city will be running 5 specialists (2 scientists, 3 priests), so that means a lot of farmed floodplains. I may be able to throw an engineer in there too once I build forges.

Warplans:

1. Ancient period: War Chariot rush Mansa Musa. Mansa has gems, seafood, and cows in his area IIRC, plus Iron and Wine to his NW. More health resources = good for Hatty, who has major health issues.
2. Late Classical period: War Elephants against Saladin, who has seafood and sheep for more health goodness.

Wiping out Saladin and Mansa Musa pretty much guarantees Hatty will own Africa. She just needs to settle near Morocco and Carthage to keep the Europeans out and along the East African coast to keep Persian and India away. The Congo, East Africa, and South Africa all have decent resources.

I suppose the other issue will be choosing a victory condition and deciding whether to stay in a SE.

I'll play and post tonight.

 

[MrFelony]

with all those FPs you could probably do a hybrid economy from the get go and just cottage everything. all the excess food should allow you to run enough specialists to counter act unhappiness and health issues.

 

[shyuhe]

I've had quite a bit of fun playing this game. Cheers to a great idea.

I played through turn 104 (forgot to pause at 100).

Spoiler :

I went AH, then mining--> masonry--> bronze working to turn out chariots as fast as I could. I then rushed Saladin and took Mecca while razing Medina. I then declared on Cyrus as well and took him out before he could hook up horses. At turn 100, I was building the oracle for a CoL slingshot and I had just founded my first city, Memphis near where Jerusalem is. India should fall pretty easily since they're only fielding warriors. It appears that France has picked up most of the wonders though so I'll have to go after them later for their wonders. Egypt is a little overpowered in this scenario but I'll take it... Definitely going for a domination win since this is epic speed.

 

[cheffster]

This game has been extreamly fun so far. I'm playing 3.13 and am going for a wonder-based/settled GP ecomony.

warning: I played through to 190AD, and gave a VERY long and detailed rightup just FYI.

Spoiler :

I ventured out West to settle my first city, Memphis, ontop of the marble and near the sheep/fish. Since Health is going to be a huge problem, I wanted to secure as many health resources as possible.

Since I hadn't connected memphis to my capital, I built the oracle there, and I decided to take Mathematics as my free tech, since I needed an aquedeuct ASAP in Thebes, not the mention the Hanging Gardens. (I forgot to take an ss of completing it tho.)

I managed to complete Stonehenge, then Pyramids in Thebes (gotta love nested Priests +2, +5, +3 with representation) Pyramids are huge since we're spiritual and have the power to change government civics whimsically.

I founded my next city to the south to link up the cows/ivory and start developing some floodplain cottages, I even cottaged over the incense tile later since it gives an extra +1 and I dont need luxury resources atm anyways.

Next order of business was the raze a barbarian city to the south. Then settle where I can link the gems/fish. I'm also researching music first to use the free Great Artist for a golden age to kickstart my development (even tho I don't have massallos)



80BC: I have built some more wonders, and decided to impose sanctions on potential rivals, this means war later, but I'm not worried about it. Forcing the AI's to stop trading with each other slows em down.

190AD: I get a great priest, and am eager to recruit him to work in Thebes.

However, I am of the Hindu faith, and someone else has already discovered theology:

So I'm going to lightbulb him and build the AP, then later tech divine right and make islam my state religion so one one else can reap the +2 per temple/monastary. I HATE lightbulbing great people, in most cases I consider it a waste, but this is one of the extreamly rare occasions I will do this. Having +4 per city and diplo beneifts > +2, +5, +3 in one city. But it hurts, with 16 civs theres more competition for building wonders.

 

[r_rolo1]

My game at turn 100 ( 375 BC )

Spoiler :

First of all forgive me for some moves: half of the turnset I was having terrible toothaches and the other I was under the effect of strong painkillers ( so strong that they discourage people of driving until 8 hours after taking them ). That explains why it took almost 70 turns without noticing that I forgot to research AH ...
I decided to use the stone and marble to make some wonders..... First of all the Henge ( cheap and giving free UB to every city) and the GW ( to launch all the barbs in Africa to Mansa ). Some civs started knocking on our door:

Spoiler :

While that happened I had this event by the first time in BtS ( interesting one )

Spoiler :

The other options gave the possiblity of extra health in the future, with the expense of ( 1 in the second and 2 in the third )... Like in Civ IV happiness normally is far more important than health ( and even more in the first tuns, even a temporary happy boost is better than a permanent health one ( the game proved me right: the extra citizen allowed by the extra happiness allowed me to work all the resource tiles in the BFC, that permited me to finish fast a temple, making a temporary hap boost in a permanent one )
After that I started the Oracle and got the standart CoL slingshot

Spoiler :

Confu auto spread to my capitol and Saladin's one, and I used the remaining missionary to spread the good word to Mansa ( want to keep him friendly until he cutted the jungle and settled some cites ). Later Alex converted to Confu as well... that means that Alex has 3 cities and 2 are confu ( Alex founded Budhism in Athens ) .Most of the Old world civs are jewish ( founded by Louis) ... No sign of Hindu faith. Maybe Monty?

My plans with Saladin ( use him as a buffer state against EuroAsian threats while I grab the lion share of Africa and finish mansa ) recieved a unexpected help:

Spoiler :

Nice.....

Got 2 Gprophets ( settled in Thebes : ATM 4 hammers and 10 coins are more valuable than a shrine ... ) and continue teching towards IW and CS (both needed for ReXing Equatorial Africa ) In the meanwhile I'll try to do a safety belt in the southern shore of the Mediterraneum to prevent european powers of settling Maghrib. I'm using now a paper thin army ( 3 warriors.... ), but that will change soon....

A Map of Egypt in 375 BC

Spoiler :

And a city screen of Thebes in the same year

Spoiler :

Good to see that people are having fun... that's the point ( P.S. I also love this map.... but I like more his 1000 AD incarnation. Maybe in another time I'll try to do a open game with it )

 

[MrFelony]

I went a much different route than you . I researched Pottery from the get go and started spamming cottages in my capital. I also settled 2 cities pretty fast in between building the GW, Oracle, and half of ToA. I also used oracle to get math in the hopes of getting hanging gardens for the health...but got beat to that 5 turns before it because i felt safe and put it off . currently it's turn 107 and i'm gearing up for REXing the rest of africa/blocking off saladins expansion into it (he's already got 2 cities on it , and then building an army to take out his hindu holy city which has spread to ~25% of the world already. after the Great Library is built i think we'll be golden.

 

[shyuhe]

I feel like the only warmonger here I've played my current game past turn 350 (about 1600 AD) and I should be able to wrap up my game soon. I'll try to post more then.

 

[illram]

@r_rolo1

The other options gave the possiblity of extra health in the future, with the expense of ( 1 in the second and 2 in the third )... Like in Civ IV happiness normally is far more important than health ( and even more in the first tuns, even a temporary happy boost is better than a permanent health one ( the game proved me right: the extra citizen allowed by the extra happiness allowed me to work all the resource tiles in the BFC, that permited me to finish fast a temple, making a temporary hap boost in a permanent one )

I found out the hard way that not selecting the +1 happiness option can really hurt a growing empire; it potentially causes 20-30 (can't remember) turns of unhappiness in some cities so even whipping becomes difficult and it can really put the brakes on a growing civilization at the most critical time, when happiness is already low. I'd agree that in most situations choosing the +1 happiness option is the best there.

Also good stuff getting this started, I'll give this a go sometime this week. I am curious to see how the new patch changes things...