KoS4 - Something more casual (?)
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
timmy827
King
OK, think it's sort of steady-as-she-goes, no major decisions to be made now.
Stealing gold probably is a poor idea. It's a base cost of 3EP per gold, while a tech is 1.5EP times its beaker cost, so we'd get more from stealing a tech even if it couldn't then be brokered. And it's a lot more likely that AI's will have useful techs to nab instead of enough gold to make spy-stealing good.
Give Ainu the FP farm and move Kerkouane's tile assignment to one of the cottages, that avoids working an unimproved tile.
Which way was the cultural battle over Zhou's fish going? Building a library instead of lighthouse seems sensible there to secure the tile.
Clearly, the best way out of the tech hole is to pop the hut by the barb city for something resellable
Stealing gold probably is a poor idea. It's a base cost of 3EP per gold, while a tech is 1.5EP times its beaker cost, so we'd get more from stealing a tech even if it couldn't then be brokered. And it's a lot more likely that AI's will have useful techs to nab instead of enough gold to make spy-stealing good.
Give Ainu the FP farm and move Kerkouane's tile assignment to one of the cottages, that avoids working an unimproved tile.
Which way was the cultural battle over Zhou's fish going? Building a library instead of lighthouse seems sensible there to secure the tile.
Clearly, the best way out of the tech hole is to pop the hut by the barb city for something resellable
Here's my 'plan'
Resources
Techs
Cities
Others
Resources
- wheat <-> fur with Pacal
- watch for gpt deals
Techs
- A 'bit hopeful' but it might just be possible to finish CoL during my set and be ready to bulb Philosophy. If so, I'll try to get Monarchy, Currency and Feudalism as priorities.
Cities
- Carthage: start on 2 scientists when it doesn't affect NE build anymore
- Utica: will keep spamming units from here to keep our power rating up. Napoleon has a lot of archers regardless. Maybe add a few cottages (the shared one)
- Hadrumetum: farm -> copper. It will shrink in 18 turns but also complete The Parthenon in 18 turns... or get more failure gold. Might chop a forest or 2 and even work the other mine
- Hippo: I think we need more culture for now against Hammurabi if we want to keep our tiles (iron mostly) before he peace-vassals>Monastery
- Kerkouane: as Timmy pointed out, send its farm to the city below. might whip a few buildings
- Zhou: add Library>Monastery at head of queue... we won't be working water tiles as long as that fish isn't ours. Whip as necessary
- Leptis: hopefully we get a missionary here or I'll just build an extra one (2 cities needing border pops)
- Chinook: keep pouring culture I guess
- Ainu: gets a farm and will 2-whip buildings. Gets cottages since it's okay on food.
Others
- If things continue this way, Pacal should land the AP under Judaism (hopefully he won't convert before finishing it) so Temples+Monasteries should be built for the hammers
- I'm considering a gift city to Mansa. He doesn't like us now and it would be an easy way to get him to at least Cautious
- Barb city: I'll move a few swords over there to capture it... we can certainly use the gold. Not sure if I'll keep or raze, it will depend on economy
- City builds: I might build science if it can net us CoL... actually I think this is likely. Building science everywhere at the moment nets us CoL in 7 turns (30% slider)
- Add in a settler somewhere for Mansa, in a crappy tundra location probably.
- We still need a few settlers for the peninsula so if ever in doubt I'll build a few and send them in that direction
- Joao doesn't like us either... I'll try to scout his way to see what can be done (gift city perhaps?)
- Some tiles need pillaging, especially the Napoleon area. Zara has a bit too many roads for my liking too... perhaps I can get a chariot to chase his worker(s)
- Keep killing open archers
- Shwedagon Paya can be part-built for failure gold as well since we have a gold resource... might swap that one somewhere too.
City-gifting is a great idea. I was wondering how we could fix MM diplo a bit.
I didn't think of going for the barb city, as it's just so damn far... Figure if you send 6-ish units there, and it takes them (off the top of my head) 12t, that's over 100g in maintenance and supply committed to capturing for just over 100g.
Zara has some roads, especially in the east. I chased settler and couple of workers around in the middle of his territory, and tried to keep units in a few spots still... We could use some chariots. Using swords for this work is kinda silly, but we do have them now and they kill open archers easily.
I don't know how I missed the cultural battle with Ham. I remember checking the iron at some point before playing and it seemed ok to me... Didn't think the fish would be in danger... He got another border pop late in the set. I guess we should whip a library asap, agreed.
I wanted Kerkouane to grow/whip LH and library quickly, and don't really care at all about the other city. Maybe I should've farmed another FP for this reason, but I figured I'd start on cottages. It can just grow on the pig and get a couple of grass farms, IMHO.
I didn't think of going for the barb city, as it's just so damn far... Figure if you send 6-ish units there, and it takes them (off the top of my head) 12t, that's over 100g in maintenance and supply committed to capturing for just over 100g.
Zara has some roads, especially in the east. I chased settler and couple of workers around in the middle of his territory, and tried to keep units in a few spots still... We could use some chariots. Using swords for this work is kinda silly, but we do have them now and they kill open archers easily.
I don't know how I missed the cultural battle with Ham. I remember checking the iron at some point before playing and it seemed ok to me... Didn't think the fish would be in danger... He got another border pop late in the set. I guess we should whip a library asap, agreed.
I wanted Kerkouane to grow/whip LH and library quickly, and don't really care at all about the other city. Maybe I should've farmed another FP for this reason, but I figured I'd start on cottages. It can just grow on the pig and get a couple of grass farms, IMHO.
Actually I was thinking of about 3 units only to get the barb city, seeing as it doesn't appear to be on a hill. However, we can also leave it for after Currency which could save us 1 settler.
Kerkouane: I see. Working the cottages won't delay growth that much I think but I might swap the farm back to Kerkouane after the other city has a few improvements (it'll be whipping 4->2 for a while anyway I assume).
Planning on playing tomorrow, so any input is welcome!
Kerkouane: I see. Working the cottages won't delay growth that much I think but I might swap the farm back to Kerkouane after the other city has a few improvements (it'll be whipping 4->2 for a while anyway I assume).
Planning on playing tomorrow, so any input is welcome!
Damn! 
I guess we could have seen that coming a mile away, given they're completely in love with each other...
Can we at least move all the workers?
I guess we could have seen that coming a mile away, given they're completely in love with each other...
Can we at least move all the workers?
Yea, no problem there. I've also trapped 3 of Zara's workers.
The big question is what to do... take peace at first opportunity or keep messing up with MM? I'm not too sure we can handle too many troops down there but I'll see what I can do when I resume playing.
The big question is what to do... take peace at first opportunity or keep messing up with MM? I'm not too sure we can handle too many troops down there but I'll see what I can do when I resume playing.
Here's my report... turns 185-200
First of all IBT Zara brought in MM to the fight =\
This is bad as I was expecting to get Feudalism from Mansa after a city gift... oh well.
On the western front, things were better however.
We also cashed out on The Parthenon, which gave enough gold for 100% research to Code of Laws.
Next turn I trapped 3 of Zara's workers, you can see the units net around them.
Also took revenge on MM
Some gpt deals I took:
I got another GG and decided to make a second WIII warlord, this time on a Sword. I sent the first Warlord down south to deal with MM, so this one roamed Zara's land.
Completed NE in Carthage and got 100 failure gold in exchange.
I also begged 100 gold from Hammy and 80 gold from Pacal this turn.
-ns
Another gpt deal
In 250AD we got bad news...
Pillaged some tiles...
We're officially in the green as of this trade:
Same turn I tried buddying up to Joao...
Finished Monarchy after CoL>Currency.
Queued Feudalism at 0% research, hopefully someone gets it soon so we can vassal Napoleon and focus on Mansa Yaqob / Zara Musa.
I didn't revolt right away to HR however as we would be getting a GP the next turn:
The religion is ours of course.
I sent the Missionary north, hopefully we can get the religion in Carthage.
You know the AI is bad at handling GPs when you see this:
After bulbing I revolted to HR, hopefully we can get Pacal to Friendly and Joao to Cautious at least to OB.
Yet another gpt deal
Stopped at t200, some things are going well, some not so well.
I already mentioned Zara having Iron > he has a Sword and an Axe roaming.
MM is researching Construction, so we can expect Catapults very soon
Maybe get HBR to counter? Or Construction ourselves?
Hammy is in WHEOOHRN (not us, he was Pleased) > Napoleon or Joao.
We're gaining on the fish tile by Zhou
We have Philosophy monopoly
Relations are okay...
Mansa wants Ainu for Peace. He might accept CoL for Peace but since he's researching it, probably not.
Once Nappy is out of the way, we can focus on MM/Zara I think. We might have to take Peace at one point but we need to seal off Zara from the west peninsula before doing so.
This might allow to peace-vassal Hammy and Pacal at some point if we get enough power and Friendly status (shouldn't be too hard with religion+HR for Pacal, Hammy's civic is Bureau so we have to wait a bit more I think.)
All in all, if we can keep Mansa down, I *think* the game is decided.
I also put a few markers here and there as reminders (whipping etc.)
*Leptis should be left in its current micro setup to get max overflow for whipping next turn.
Funny statistic...
Current workers: 18
Built.... 2
First of all IBT Zara brought in MM to the fight =\
Spoiler :
This is bad as I was expecting to get Feudalism from Mansa after a city gift... oh well.
On the western front, things were better however.
Spoiler :
We also cashed out on The Parthenon, which gave enough gold for 100% research to Code of Laws.
Spoiler :
Next turn I trapped 3 of Zara's workers, you can see the units net around them.
Spoiler :
Also took revenge on MM
Spoiler :
Some gpt deals I took:
Spoiler :
I got another GG and decided to make a second WIII warlord, this time on a Sword. I sent the first Warlord down south to deal with MM, so this one roamed Zara's land.
Spoiler :
Completed NE in Carthage and got 100 failure gold in exchange.
Spoiler :
I also begged 100 gold from Hammy and 80 gold from Pacal this turn.
-ns
Another gpt deal
Spoiler :
In 250AD we got bad news...
Spoiler :
Pillaged some tiles...
Spoiler :
We're officially in the green as of this trade:
Spoiler :
Same turn I tried buddying up to Joao...
Spoiler :
Finished Monarchy after CoL>Currency.
Spoiler :
Queued Feudalism at 0% research, hopefully someone gets it soon so we can vassal Napoleon and focus on Mansa Yaqob / Zara Musa.
I didn't revolt right away to HR however as we would be getting a GP the next turn:
Spoiler :
The religion is ours of course.
Spoiler :
I sent the Missionary north, hopefully we can get the religion in Carthage.
You know the AI is bad at handling GPs when you see this:
Spoiler :
no we don't get to keep the GS unfortunately!After bulbing I revolted to HR, hopefully we can get Pacal to Friendly and Joao to Cautious at least to OB.
Spoiler :
Yet another gpt deal
Spoiler :
Stopped at t200, some things are going well, some not so well.
I already mentioned Zara having Iron > he has a Sword and an Axe roaming.
MM is researching Construction, so we can expect Catapults very soon
Maybe get HBR to counter? Or Construction ourselves?
Hammy is in WHEOOHRN (not us, he was Pleased) > Napoleon or Joao.
We're gaining on the fish tile by Zhou
Spoiler :
We have Philosophy monopoly
Spoiler :
Relations are okay...
Spoiler :
Mansa wants Ainu for Peace. He might accept CoL for Peace but since he's researching it, probably not.
Once Nappy is out of the way, we can focus on MM/Zara I think. We might have to take Peace at one point but we need to seal off Zara from the west peninsula before doing so.
This might allow to peace-vassal Hammy and Pacal at some point if we get enough power and Friendly status (shouldn't be too hard with religion+HR for Pacal, Hammy's civic is Bureau so we have to wait a bit more I think.)
All in all, if we can keep Mansa down, I *think* the game is decided.
I also put a few markers here and there as reminders (whipping etc.)
*Leptis should be left in its current micro setup to get max overflow for whipping next turn.
Funny statistic...
Current workers: 18
Built.... 2
timmy827
King
OK, seems like you did very well with a crappy situation.
Stupid unpillageable river connection between Aksum and Mansa. Curious, do Aksum and Gondar both get the iron in this case?
Don't think I've ever been in a situation like this (war with 1/2 the world, and territory that is logistically nightmarish). I'm not demoralized, but I'm coming up blank for advice right now.
Stupid unpillageable river connection between Aksum and Mansa. Curious, do Aksum and Gondar both get the iron in this case?
Don't think I've ever been in a situation like this (war with 1/2 the world, and territory that is logistically nightmarish). I'm not demoralized, but I'm coming up blank for advice right now.
We should have Napoleon vassaled within 20 turns. We'll probably have to take peace with MM/ZY at some point because it'll be hard to break them up.
The best thing to do is collect Pacal and Hammy as peaceful vassals next (build units and more cities) and then hit either Joao or MM+ZY.
If ZY should ever break free (we should actually consider letting him expand a bit), we can redeclare on him and capitulating him wouldn't be too hard I think.
I don't think Zara is getting the Iron everywhere as some cities are disconnected from his network. Can't remember is other cities also are on Aksum's network but if so, yes.
Roster, just in case.
1. kossin - Just played
2. Stochastic - asked for auto-skip
3. Mutineer - UP
4. mlinneak - On deck
5. timmy827
6. Tatran
7. babybluepants
The best thing to do is collect Pacal and Hammy as peaceful vassals next (build units and more cities) and then hit either Joao or MM+ZY.
If ZY should ever break free (we should actually consider letting him expand a bit), we can redeclare on him and capitulating him wouldn't be too hard I think.
I don't think Zara is getting the Iron everywhere as some cities are disconnected from his network. Can't remember is other cities also are on Aksum's network but if so, yes.
Roster, just in case.
1. kossin - Just played
2. Stochastic - asked for auto-skip
3. Mutineer - UP
4. mlinneak - On deck
5. timmy827
6. Tatran
7. babybluepants
I do not think there mach to discuss.
Hold of Masta, personally I am not sure we want peace with him, except if we want to trade feudalism form him. He does not build mach units and war was declared with out usual sod building preparation, so should not be mach problem. Vassal Nappy and expand more. Other reason to make peace with Masta could be " we afraid your powerful enemies. ( If I understand that reason correctly you are in war with other civ that has big power level or war successes on you. Will play tomorrow.
Hold of Masta, personally I am not sure we want peace with him, except if we want to trade feudalism form him. He does not build mach units and war was declared with out usual sod building preparation, so should not be mach problem. Vassal Nappy and expand more. Other reason to make peace with Masta could be " we afraid your powerful enemies. ( If I understand that reason correctly you are in war with other civ that has big power level or war successes on you. Will play tomorrow.
Played 15 turns.
News are good.
Did pillaging/roaming stuff, pull units of mansa borders to heal.
Watch trade every turn, but no one going Feudalism. Mansa give all tech he has to Zara, Zara upgraded all his LB, created mini Sod. and send it our way, forced me to do some emergency whipping.
Got fail gold form Paya - good for as.
Sod did not attack, retreat inside his borders and now moving west, making me shaffle units back and forward.
But at some moment I see unexpected message:
Zara renounse protection of Mansa. Ha!
My guess his power level shot up...
Som I made peace with Mansa
Next turn we are still worst enemy, so I switched to no state religion.
Next turn:
and Nappy capitulated.
Next turn;
and we his WFUBTA with some civs.. unexpected, is there limit very low? I did not think we did a lot of trades.
Zara doing fine on his own. My guess his power raiting is to high. We need to kill his Sod and expand more. Nappy now free to expand, he has setttler in city.
So we need to keep up, we have space.
This is Zara Sod needed watching:
We need our UU or cats to deal with it.
Kill it efficiently, expand a city and I think Zara will capitulate.
Please note we are still in org religion, but no state religion. we will need to choise to return to Monoteism or revolt to somethign cheaper, but in a view of Zara Sod I did not wanted to go to revolt.
News are good.
Did pillaging/roaming stuff, pull units of mansa borders to heal.
Watch trade every turn, but no one going Feudalism. Mansa give all tech he has to Zara, Zara upgraded all his LB, created mini Sod. and send it our way, forced me to do some emergency whipping.
Got fail gold form Paya - good for as.
Sod did not attack, retreat inside his borders and now moving west, making me shaffle units back and forward.
But at some moment I see unexpected message:
Zara renounse protection of Mansa. Ha!
My guess his power level shot up...
Som I made peace with Mansa
Spoiler :
Next turn we are still worst enemy, so I switched to no state religion.
Next turn:
Spoiler :
and Nappy capitulated.
Spoiler :
Next turn;
Spoiler :
and we his WFUBTA with some civs.. unexpected, is there limit very low? I did not think we did a lot of trades.
Zara doing fine on his own. My guess his power raiting is to high. We need to kill his Sod and expand more. Nappy now free to expand, he has setttler in city.
So we need to keep up, we have space.
This is Zara Sod needed watching:
Spoiler :
We need our UU or cats to deal with it.
Kill it efficiently, expand a city and I think Zara will capitulate.
Please note we are still in org religion, but no state religion. we will need to choise to return to Monoteism or revolt to somethign cheaper, but in a view of Zara Sod I did not wanted to go to revolt.
Great set! Looks like we're finally making headway.
Zara is of course not capitulating since he has longbows everywhere.
Change Napoleon's research to HBR (21 turns atm) so we can trade for it, we can always gift him Calendar.
Meanwhile we should finish CS and then research Construction as Mutineer pointed out. Combined with HBR from Nappy, we'll have Numidians and Elephants... gg Zara and whoever else stands in our way.
I am a bit concerned about the diplo situation with Hammy, we'll have to go back into Judaism to get him to Friendly with Bureaucracy. Unfortunately Mansa won't like us very much but there's not much we can do about that right now.
Send a unit to check Nippur... if there's a SoD there we might be getting a Hammy DoW not too far from now.
I don't like the Great Artist sitting in Dur-Kurigalzu, I think we're going to get culture-bombed =\
Should we get a GA out of Carthage we could consider bombing him back to keep the corn.
Hippo probably won't be able to spawn a GP anytime soon so I think I'd send the scientist to the cottage.
Kerkouane needs to whip (no lighthouse and we're working coast)
I would whip Ainu right now. 2 cottages and a tundra mine aren't worth 7gpt.
Other than that, here's a quick reference to the # of soldiers/unit chart.
In terms of gpt, I think it's clear Elephants are worth it over others. Military wise, they're the strongest thing available to us not too distantly. In any case, we should be able to capitulate Zara in about a turn set.
Then we'll want to work on buttering up Hammy and Pacal -> Judaism. Mansa can wait in his little corner, he'll be too afraid to declare war on us.
Zara is of course not capitulating since he has longbows everywhere.
Change Napoleon's research to HBR (21 turns atm) so we can trade for it, we can always gift him Calendar.
Meanwhile we should finish CS and then research Construction as Mutineer pointed out. Combined with HBR from Nappy, we'll have Numidians and Elephants... gg Zara and whoever else stands in our way.
I am a bit concerned about the diplo situation with Hammy, we'll have to go back into Judaism to get him to Friendly with Bureaucracy. Unfortunately Mansa won't like us very much but there's not much we can do about that right now.
Send a unit to check Nippur... if there's a SoD there we might be getting a Hammy DoW not too far from now.
I don't like the Great Artist sitting in Dur-Kurigalzu, I think we're going to get culture-bombed =\
Should we get a GA out of Carthage we could consider bombing him back to keep the corn.
Hippo probably won't be able to spawn a GP anytime soon so I think I'd send the scientist to the cottage.
Kerkouane needs to whip (no lighthouse and we're working coast)
I would whip Ainu right now. 2 cottages and a tundra mine aren't worth 7gpt.
Other than that, here's a quick reference to the # of soldiers/unit chart.
Spoiler :
In terms of gpt, I think it's clear Elephants are worth it over others. Military wise, they're the strongest thing available to us not too distantly. In any case, we should be able to capitulate Zara in about a turn set.
Then we'll want to work on buttering up Hammy and Pacal -> Judaism. Mansa can wait in his little corner, he'll be too afraid to declare war on us.
timmy827
King
Don't have time to check the save this morning for more advice, but kudos, seems like we are doing great.
Nice! :goojob:
Quite the turnaround. The Zara-MM vassal thing is just silly. What a PITA. He just gave him longbows for nothing.
Joao could also be a target for Ham... Hopefully that's it, so we don't have to deal with more defence. In terms of diplo it's a bit irrelevant, I guess. We wanna be sucking up to him with Juda and Bureau. NSR for that trade is good, but I'd go right back.
Quite the turnaround. The Zara-MM vassal thing is just silly. What a PITA.
He just gave him longbows for nothing.Joao could also be a target for Ham... Hopefully that's it, so we don't have to deal with more defence. In terms of diplo it's a bit irrelevant, I guess. We wanna be sucking up to him with Juda and Bureau. NSR for that trade is good, but I'd go right back.
mlinneak
Prince
Nicely done, kossin and Mutineer. I see I am up. I will not be able to review the save tonight, so I would like to do that tomorrow evening and post a plan, then actually play the evening following, if that is okay with the team. I also appreciate any suggestions and recommendations in the meantime. Are we going to have an issue now claiming land by Napoleon? Is there any particular place we especially want that I should try to build up a settler for before he is able to take it? Or should I really just be focusing on LBs and military?
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