KoS4 - Something more casual (?)
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
I'll second the good trades, I liked the one for gold+poly, how much did we get? In fact it looks like everything went really well!
We are dancing on the edge of strike which is always a good sign that we are expanding at the right rate (ie asap
), I think Carthage should work the wine village instead of a plains forest. We lose 1 turn of the GLib, but gain a bunch of cash and there are a bunch of forests to get chopped in as well.
For techs maybe we should put partial research into Currency instead of Priesthood? I know that we really want Monarchy to lift the happy cap and move towards Feudalism, but getting currency would really help our tech situation, both for the extra TRs and for building wealth.
I love how Nappy and Zara are keeping up with us despite having no imrouved land.
We are dancing on the edge of strike which is always a good sign that we are expanding at the right rate (ie asap
), I think Carthage should work the wine village instead of a plains forest. We lose 1 turn of the GLib, but gain a bunch of cash and there are a bunch of forests to get chopped in as well.For techs maybe we should put partial research into Currency instead of Priesthood? I know that we really want Monarchy to lift the happy cap and move towards Feudalism, but getting currency would really help our tech situation, both for the extra TRs and for building wealth.
I love how Nappy and Zara are keeping up with us despite having no imrouved land.
timmy827
King
What? No horde of enslaved workers? Slacker!
Given our finances, I'd support working the cottages in Carthage over the plains forests, and using chops to guarantee TGL. Since Hammy has no marble this should be pretty safe. Also, silver over grass hill mine in Hadru. Do we actually want to grow there? If we do, then Hadru pretty much has to keep the corn full time, not sure if that's what we want.
Anyone know why Zhou has no foreign trade route?
Kossin, good call on putting TGL Carthage, you were definitely right that Zhou wouldn't be fast enough.
Huerfanista, thanks, you're right. My spreadsheet has a stupid colored-font scheme such that Joao's and some other leader's rows are impossible to read. With that knowledge, perhaps we should consider trading Lit now for some cheap techs?
Send the chariot in Chinook to the capture-Ainu party, Chinook will be plenty safe with one axe.
Pacal will trade Fur for Rice. Maybe now is also the time to embrace Judaism? Adding a few more people in Carthage would be nice.
Given our finances, I'd support working the cottages in Carthage over the plains forests, and using chops to guarantee TGL. Since Hammy has no marble this should be pretty safe. Also, silver over grass hill mine in Hadru. Do we actually want to grow there? If we do, then Hadru pretty much has to keep the corn full time, not sure if that's what we want.
Anyone know why Zhou has no foreign trade route?
Kossin, good call on putting TGL Carthage, you were definitely right that Zhou wouldn't be fast enough.
Huerfanista, thanks, you're right. My spreadsheet has a stupid colored-font scheme such that Joao's and some other leader's rows are impossible to read. With that knowledge, perhaps we should consider trading Lit now for some cheap techs?
Send the chariot in Chinook to the capture-Ainu party, Chinook will be plenty safe with one axe.
Pacal will trade Fur for Rice. Maybe now is also the time to embrace Judaism? Adding a few more people in Carthage would be nice.
I'd trade Lit to Joao for Sailing+PH+60 gold+?Hunting? (If we connect the Ivory we can work on SoZ for failure gold)
This will free up our workers from roading and allow them to go chop out Parthenon and TGL... chop every forest if necessary, including the tundra ones. Hammy lacks Marble so we should have no trouble. However, Pacal has it so refrain from trading Literature to him unless he has a lot of gold to sell.
I agree Carthage should still be working the cottaged wine for extra commerce... we can certainly use it for gold. Let it grow 1 pop as well.
Definitely trade rice<->fur, we'll need it in a few places.
Not convinced about Judaism still. The only reason I'd see fit to convert is for Organized Religion atm.
What's our next trade chip?
-not Music (probably we'll be too slow with Hammurabi beelining)
-not Monarchy (everyone has it)
-Compass could work
-going for Currency right away could work... it would certainly help fix the bleeding gold problem
-CoL since the religion is still up for grabs it could stay a monopoly for a while. Also opens up Philo bulb with Meditation
I'd say: CoL+Meditation with Philo bulb should work, however we're a bit behind on GPP atm but TGL+Parthenon will help there. It's unfortunate that we don't have the second discount for CoL (currency), so we can consider Drama as well.
Let's send 3~4 units to get the last barb city we see... I'd rather Mansa not get it.
Still > I'd run 2 scientists in Carthage after growth and chop forests instead of working them.
EDIT: keep pillaging roads. Also I'd like to explore the top left part of the landmass.. I think fogbusting is not helpful in that area. If anything, it'd help to have a barb city spawn there.
This will free up our workers from roading and allow them to go chop out Parthenon and TGL... chop every forest if necessary, including the tundra ones. Hammy lacks Marble so we should have no trouble. However, Pacal has it so refrain from trading Literature to him unless he has a lot of gold to sell.
I agree Carthage should still be working the cottaged wine for extra commerce... we can certainly use it for gold. Let it grow 1 pop as well.
Definitely trade rice<->fur, we'll need it in a few places.
Not convinced about Judaism still. The only reason I'd see fit to convert is for Organized Religion atm.
What's our next trade chip?
-not Music (probably we'll be too slow with Hammurabi beelining)
-not Monarchy (everyone has it)
-Compass could work
-going for Currency right away could work... it would certainly help fix the bleeding gold problem
-CoL since the religion is still up for grabs it could stay a monopoly for a while. Also opens up Philo bulb with Meditation
I'd say: CoL+Meditation with Philo bulb should work, however we're a bit behind on GPP atm but TGL+Parthenon will help there. It's unfortunate that we don't have the second discount for CoL (currency), so we can consider Drama as well.
Let's send 3~4 units to get the last barb city we see... I'd rather Mansa not get it.
Still > I'd run 2 scientists in Carthage after growth and chop forests instead of working them.
EDIT: keep pillaging roads. Also I'd like to explore the top left part of the landmass.. I think fogbusting is not helpful in that area. If anything, it'd help to have a barb city spawn there.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
We might have just enough EPs to steal hunting from Nappy and there should be enough to steal another tech from Zara (Meditation/Monotheism?) That way we won't have to trade for them and might be able to use Lit for a half researched monarchy/currency. We would need a spy though, the only place we could reasonably slot one in is Utica.
Good catch on the fur trade, keep those voyageurs busy!
Techs
Personally I'd prefer to tech CoL over Drama even without the currency discount as it will then provide either access or a discount on Civil Service. It also opens up Cast System, which, besides providing the opportunity to force out another GS quickly, would also open up Merchants if we are still desperate for cash.
Compass is interesting because it opens up our UB. But I don't think we have the spare hammers for it yet so I'd prefer another tech that has a bit more of an immediate benefit besides trade value.
SoZ
I'm reluctant to start building another wonder even if it is for failure gold. I just don't think that we have the production to keep sufficient units coming out as well.
Good catch on the fur trade, keep those voyageurs busy!
Techs
Personally I'd prefer to tech CoL over Drama even without the currency discount as it will then provide either access or a discount on Civil Service. It also opens up Cast System, which, besides providing the opportunity to force out another GS quickly, would also open up Merchants if we are still desperate for cash.
Compass is interesting because it opens up our UB. But I don't think we have the spare hammers for it yet so I'd prefer another tech that has a bit more of an immediate benefit besides trade value.
SoZ
I'm reluctant to start building another wonder even if it is for failure gold. I just don't think that we have the production to keep sufficient units coming out as well.
timmy827
King
We aren't trading or stealing Hunting. We part-researched it in an earlier turnset when a clear tech path was not laid out, and are something like only 25 beakers short ATM (sorry, in rush and can't look at save to confirm).
Judaism -
I think there's almost a schizophrenia in our discussions, we keep talk about doing things that involve good relations with Hammy/Pacal (gold begging, friendly vassaling) but don't convert to their religion. The bonus needs time to grow...Also, again, converting would give another happy face in Carthage...
We can debate what our next trade chip is gonna be after the next set, because we will be too broke during this one to research anything
I guess the scientist beakers can go to Meditation for a future Philo bulb; probably CoL is a better trade chip than Drama but we'll see.
Judaism -
I think there's almost a schizophrenia in our discussions, we keep talk about doing things that involve good relations with Hammy/Pacal (gold begging, friendly vassaling) but don't convert to their religion. The bonus needs time to grow...Also, again, converting would give another happy face in Carthage...
We can debate what our next trade chip is gonna be after the next set, because we will be too broke during this one to research anything
I guess the scientist beakers can go to Meditation for a future Philo bulb; probably CoL is a better trade chip than Drama but we'll see.I'm against adopting a religion.
Pacal is the founder of christianity, so he will switch to it soon.
A few more turns and the gems + gold are connected.
We have wine + ivory which will be soon on line too.
We have all the 3 happy metals, so with forges that's another 3 happy faces.
Also, we have at least 3 happy calendar resources, dyes, spices and silk.
A market will give another 3 happy faces and at last, hereditery rule civic will fight unhappy faces.
Nice set. 
kossin, am I up? I can post some notes tonite. Been busy the last few days...
kossin, am I up? I can post some notes tonite. Been busy the last few days...
Yes, and I'm on deck.Nice set.
kossin, am I up? I can post some notes tonite. Been busy the last few days...
~~~
Religion is only worth 1 happy per city and much anger from at least 2 neighbors, possibly 3 as Tatran pointed out soon. As soon as gems and gold are connected we'll have a pretty good happy cap to grow in to.
I'm just catching up here after a few days away.
@Tatran,
How much money are we getting from city capture? Around 100? We'll be losing over 20gpt @ 0% after Chinook comes out of revolt by the looks of it. Not sure how we're gonna generate trade value here. I think Philo's pretty far off. We actually don't have a single gpp in any city right now!
I don't think I've ever seen that at this stage. I guess going PH-COL is pretty straightforward here, though it's gonna take forever. I prefer it over Drama.
That's sorta why I was complaining about Hippo in earlier TS's... I think we should've farmed it and ran some scientists. I'm confused by that city. We're building a barracks now... I would borrow the corn to grow it to cap in 3t, then start on gpp.
Kerkouane is looking crappy. Wanna work the gold, given our money troubles, but I think it's still better to whip that granary soon, getting some overflow into a WB. It really needs to get growing.
I'll capture the south barb city asap... The two chokes are looking great. Keep at it.
I would chop two forests for GLib at least, then trade away Lit when we're a few turns away. With two chops, we should be done building it in about 9-10t. I agree with running two scientists there after growth. Wanna work that corn.
Parthenon seems like a really long shot... Is the intent to actually complete it? I'd be happy just investing some marble-hammers for now, and cashing out later.
Trade rice for fur, as mentioned.
@Tatran,
How much money are we getting from city capture? Around 100? We'll be losing over 20gpt @ 0% after Chinook comes out of revolt by the looks of it. Not sure how we're gonna generate trade value here. I think Philo's pretty far off. We actually don't have a single gpp in any city right now!
I don't think I've ever seen that at this stage. I guess going PH-COL is pretty straightforward here, though it's gonna take forever. I prefer it over Drama.That's sorta why I was complaining about Hippo in earlier TS's... I think we should've farmed it and ran some scientists. I'm confused by that city. We're building a barracks now... I would borrow the corn to grow it to cap in 3t, then start on gpp.
Kerkouane is looking crappy. Wanna work the gold, given our money troubles, but I think it's still better to whip that granary soon, getting some overflow into a WB. It really needs to get growing.
I'll capture the south barb city asap... The two chokes are looking great. Keep at it.
I would chop two forests for GLib at least, then trade away Lit when we're a few turns away. With two chops, we should be done building it in about 9-10t. I agree with running two scientists there after growth. Wanna work that corn.
Parthenon seems like a really long shot... Is the intent to actually complete it? I'd be happy just investing some marble-hammers for now, and cashing out later.
Trade rice for fur, as mentioned.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Tartan might correct me, but I think Kerkouan already has a workboat out on the fish ready to be deployed next turn.
You're right about it being a bit desperate though, maybe the GS should have been settled instead of made into an academy?
Maybe we should consider burning the last barb city and rebuilding it later? It's not in the best of places after all.
You're right about it being a bit desperate though, maybe the GS should have been settled instead of made into an academy?
Maybe we should consider burning the last barb city and rebuilding it later? It's not in the best of places after all.
Chinook provided 150 
Currency is badly needed, so I prefer to research it ourselves.
Mansa (busy with Metal Casting) doesn't have it.
Carthage must get the Great Library asap. Chop + whip.
Maybe use Hadrumentum to build research and forget about the Parthenon.
Btw, hereditery rule is the favourite civic of Pacal (+6) and Joao (+4).
Joao doesn't have Monarchy yet.
Currency is badly needed, so I prefer to research it ourselves.
Mansa (busy with Metal Casting) doesn't have it.
Carthage must get the Great Library asap. Chop + whip.
Maybe use Hadrumentum to build research and forget about the Parthenon.
Btw, hereditery rule is the favourite civic of Pacal (+6) and Joao (+4).
Joao doesn't have Monarchy yet.
Agree with pretty much everything. If we can trade CoL for Currency down the line it's good as CoL is cheaper to research with 2 prerequisite techs. Let's cash out on Parthenon, we need all the gold we can get now.I'm just catching up here after a few days away.
@Tatran,
How much money are we getting from city capture? Around 100? We'll be losing over 20gpt @ 0% after Chinook comes out of revolt by the looks of it. Not sure how we're gonna generate trade value here. I think Philo's pretty far off. We actually don't have a single gpp in any city right now!
That's sorta why I was complaining about Hippo in earlier TS's... I think we should've farmed it and ran some scientists. I'm confused by that city. We're building a barracks now... I would borrow the corn to grow it to cap in 3t, then start on gpp.
Kerkouane is looking crappy. Wanna work the gold, given our money troubles, but I think it's still better to whip that granary soon, getting some overflow into a WB. It really needs to get growing.
I'll capture the south barb city asap... The two chokes are looking great. Keep at it.
I would chop two forests for GLib at least, then trade away Lit when we're a few turns away. With two chops, we should be done building it in about 9-10t. I agree with running two scientists there after growth. Wanna work that corn.
Parthenon seems like a really long shot... Is the intent to actually complete it? I'd be happy just investing some marble-hammers for now, and cashing out later.
Trade rice for fur, as mentioned.
Similarly, we can partial build Heroic/National Epics in several cities with Marble and get a good amount of gold out of them.
Not sure we can slot the Epics this TS, but that's a good idea.
I guess we're going PH-COL then? It's a tricky spot tech-wise, but I think that's probably the best option.
What do we do with the barb city? Someone suggested razing it for cash, but I can't imagine settling there before MM after razing. I'd be inclined to try and keep it. Opinions?
I guess we're going PH-COL then? It's a tricky spot tech-wise, but I think that's probably the best option.
What do we do with the barb city? Someone suggested razing it for cash, but I can't imagine settling there before MM after razing. I'd be inclined to try and keep it. Opinions?
timmy827
King
Speaking of which, where do we want the Epics for real? Would assume NE in carthage since it's getting great library. No city stands out as really great for HE though.
Kossin - how do we trade CoL for Currency, then get a tech discount on CoL from Currency?
Kossin - how do we trade CoL for Currency, then get a tech discount on CoL from Currency?
By employing dark magic, ofc.Kossin - how do we trade CoL for Currency, then get a tech discount on CoL from Currency?
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