Language and National Identity

[Zeekater]

And a good thing too! Nei, just kidding.
I think the tension between Wallonie and the Flemish has calmed a bit, personnaly, I don't care one bit about it. My best friend is Wallon, I'm flemish btw. I always call him stupid Wallon, just to antagonize him

As a side note, I sometimes find myself thinking in English, without noticing, kinda strange.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Zeekater
And a good thing too! Nei, just kidding.
I think the tension between Wallonie and the Flemish has calmed a bit,

When watching cycling, you can't miss the Flemmish 'national' pride, though.

And uh.... A month ago this Wallonian garage keeper was far more friendly, when I told him I was Dutch, and thus not Flemmish .

 

[Zeekater]

Not only cycling, also our tennissers are the best of the world!

 

[raen]

Yes language is very important in national identity. But people nowadays have to know a second language (particulary english) if they want to talk with people of other countries (example: civfanatics ) and read documents or books. In my case, my University books are all in English.

And is english because is an easier language to learn and speak. Maybe English is better for rock and roll, other languages like Portuguese is better for Portuguese traditional music, i.e., traditional music evolved because of the language, so it plays a big part of national identity.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Remember, languages develop among groups of speakers that live together or at least are in close contact. When you live as a group, you all take on certain cultural characteristics, and these become evident in later national identities.

Therefore, more than likely, any group likely to consider itself a nation has at least some linguistic bonds.

 

[Hitro]

Language is an immensly important part of national identity and a people's culture. It is for that reason of course also a main point of division between nations.

Originally posted by John Bull
Just out of curiosity, what language do bilingual people think in?

Those who learned it from the beginning probably in both, at least those I know do, depending on which they are speaking at the moment. They all say they prefer a certain one for thinking for themselves, but also mix them.

I personally think that I only really got to understand (to "know") English when I started thinking in it. So that I don't have to translate the thoughts for this post, for example.

 

[Pariah]

Still, that doesn't stop a nation breaking up - or a new nation breaking away - while still sharing a common language. As witness Britain's many former colonies, starting with the USA.

American culture has managed to transcend many linguistic barriers and suffuse the World.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by stormbind
I don't think language makes much difference to culture.

It may affect psyche though. It has been said the Swedish are cold (as in heartless) and they have a primitive language not unlike that of the Vikings.

German is certainly not the "language of love" and the people are very technical and perfectionist.

In contrast, the French are said to be very romantic (more like mushy than romantic imho) and they have a slurry language.

So maybe our vocabulary or grammar affects our behaviour?

I'd think it's more likely that our behavior affects our vocabulary and grammar.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by WillJ
I'd think it's more likely that our behavior affects our vocabulary and grammar.

True: let's face it, people as different Magnus Magnussen to Roy Chubby Brown may speak the same language, but their habitual style and content of speech are as far apart as saints and psychos!

 

[gael]

I used to think it mean't nothing until I went abroad and was speaking to people who were bilingual.

They'd ask me if i can speak Irish and all i could do was say no and feel very un-Irish.

You can argue about it all you like, but thats what it basically boils down too.
I still don't know how to speak my native tongue, and I'll probably never get round to it. I think spanish is a more practical language to learn if i was to learn another.
Still though,..i always feel less Irish because of it.

Americians don't understand.

 

[Margim]

"How much is language part of that "stuff" that defines a people?"

I don't think there is a definite answer to that question - In modern Israel, Hebrew seems to have become used as a common point of communication, to help draw together a people. Then look at their surrounding neighbours, the Arabs, who on many things stand together in cultural and religious identity, but whos local dialects are so varied that many Syrians would have a tough time listening to Egyptians, for example (or so my Arab friends told me). Language is an important factor, but not always crucial in identity.

 

[Free Enterprise]

An extremist Anthropology book (the author is an ardent foe of the United States and United Kingdom) suggested English is highly conducive to using combat and warlike phrases in everyday speech. For example: Someone launched an offensive against corruption in society.

More sympathetic observers suggested the English (and therefore if this is true English speaking countries) are level headed and pragmatic.

Of course language could have no or very little effect on personality.

 

[Shadylookin]

the world should convert to US english as well as our standard system. language gives you the ability to communicate with people i guess if it's a small group of people speaking it they will feel closer, but i'm not going to feel conected with someone just because we speak the same language.

1000 posts horray

 

[Sims2789]

English is the main language where i live, but many people speak Spanish, Tagolag(Philipino), Chinese(mostly Cantoneise) as well as many other languages.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I think a good example about languages would be Switzerland. In that country, people speak 3 different languages but share the same common swiss identity. When you're from Zurich, you speak the same language (almost) than people from Berlin... but generally speaking I guess you'll feel closer to someone from Geneva than to someone from Berlin.

The national identity isn't only about language, it's also about history and traditions. If you try to compare Quebec and France you'll realize both countries are very different culturally speaking. That can be easily explained by History and the different environments. When I was in Montreal, I've got the feeling I was in "french speaking" United States. The city was american, the cars were american, the shops were american. However, someone from Canada or the US will consider Quebec as very different than their home.

At the opposite, when I am in Brussels, I just feel like if I was in another city of France. Of course it's written in two languages there, but that's about the same in Corsica or in Brittany. Today, there's no more border between Belgium and France, and we share also the same currency. The little things that make me feel it's a foreign country are disappearing more and more.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
At the opposite, when I am in Brussels, I just feel like if I was in another city of France. Of course it's written in two languages there, but that's about the same in Corsica or in Brittany. Today, there's no more border between Belgium and France, and we share also the same currency. The little things that make me feel it's a foreign country are disappearing more and more.

Move up 100km north to Antwerpen (Anvers), and you might change your opinion.

Belgium is very special country. Just like you don't feel you are abroad in Wallony, I hardly feel away from home when in Flanders.

Brussels itself is the exception. It is neither Wallonian nor Flemmish.

On the other hand, I hardly feel like a stranger when in a French city or town.

 

[Yago]

I think a good example about languages would be Switzerland. In that country, people speak 3 different languages but share the same common swiss identity. When you're from Zurich, you speak the same language (almost) than people from Berlin... but generally speaking I guess you'll feel closer to someone from Geneva than to someone from Berlin.

Je vote, donc je Suisse. Well, for the language, I am quite certain that in Berlin, they do not understand the way I speak, and frankly, I have hard time understanding them, when they do not speak standard German, as I found out as I was there. Swissgerman differs heavily from standard German, but exists only spoken. Actually, the Germans don't get normally neither, they think it consists out of one big "CHHHHHH" and a random "liiii".

As for language as a factor for nationality. One may chose as critierium, if one likes to. It's a German innovation, as such, I don't think so highly of it. Culture and traditions as a whole are more much more important than the small part language.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Well of course Yago, but what I meant is that even if you don't speak at all the same language in Neuchâtel and in Sankt Gallen, you still feel to be part of the same country and to share a same identity somewhere... and that even if you speak very different languages.

I'm not sure to be right though. I've been only 3 days in my life in Switzerland and it was in Geneva. It's just a general impression I've got. Even if french speaking swiss and german speaking swiss have clichés on each other, no one wants to split the country in half... not even Christoph Blocher. Am I wrong ?

 

[Yago]

I think its fair to say that national cohesion in Switzerland is quite strong. I'd even say, much stronger as in many countries. I'd even say, that there is no place like home, and I personally would be crying a river, if one canton would go. Then, the outlook that one canton would want to split is 0000000. So, I think we will be there for a quite long long time..

And I'd seriously hate to be not Swiss anymore.

And we are Swiss.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Originally posted by John Bull
Just out of curiosity, what language do bilingual people think in? And what about those who don't have language?

Both and they are quite interchangable, except for maths.