Larry Flynt: Hero? Scumbag? Or Both?

Formaldehyde

Both Fair And Balanced
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I finally took the time to watch The People vs Larry Flynt in its entirety. I encourage anybody who is interested in First Amendment issues to do the same. Woody Harrelson was nominated for an Oscar, Golden Globe, and SAG award for his amazing performance.


Link to video.

It chronicles the life of Larry Flynt, who I think is one of the most controversial men who has ever lived. He lived in abject poverty as a child in the back hills of Kentucky. Flynt had a knack for running bars, created a chain of them, and eventually opened a stripper bar called The Hustler. That developed into a chain of stripper clubs.

Flynt then had the resources to start Hustler Magazine. It developed national notoriety for being the first mass-marketed magazine to show women's vaginas. Prior to that, you had to purchase a magazine in a sex shop which were limited strictly to adults. Larry eventually was sentenced to 7 to 25 years in prison. It was overturned on appeal.

Larry Flynt became such a controversial person that he and his and his attorney were shot exiting the courtroom after one of his many appearances on various charges stemming from his magazine. The shooter was never identified at the time. Flynt was paralyzed from the waist down. It turned out the assailant is a mass murderer. Flynt made news recently by trying to save him from impending execution.

One issue of Hustler Magazine had a fake Campari ad featuring Jerry Falwell talking about his first sexual encounter. According to the parody, it occurred in an outhouse with his mother. This so incensed Falwell that he sued for slander and emotional distress. The slander charge was overthrown because it was clearly a parody that nobody believed. But Falwell was awarded $200K for emotional distress.

Larry Flynt's lifetime attorney successfully argued against the verdict in the Supreme Court. It was overturned by a 9-0 decision.


Link to video.

Here are few of the my favorite Larry Flynt quotes, which there are many:

"If the First Amendment will protect a scumbag like me, then it'll protect all of you -- 'cause I'm the worst."

"If you're not going to offend somebody you don't need the First Amendment."

"You know, everybody believes in free speech until you start questioning them about it."

So what do you think about this highly controversial figure?
 
Another good example might be Howl, which (in part) features the obscenity trial of the beat poet, Allen Ginsberg.

Some people found Howl offensive, while others considered it high art.

Spoiler :
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,
starving hysterical naked,

dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for
an angry fix,

angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection
to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,

who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking
in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating
across the tops of cities contemplating jazz,...


Howl has everything, race issues, drugs, homosexuality - something to offend everybody. His publisher was tried for distribution of obscenity, but was aquited.

Freedom also means tolerance of other peoples' opinions, politics, religion, tastes - even when promulgated by a scumbag like Larry Flint.
 
If someone doesn't like pornography, then I'd recommend them not to look at it.

(I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea for minors to be exposed to it, though.)

I'd also like to be reassured that women who participate in the sex-industry do so freely. I'm not always sure that this is the case.
 
Just getting himself shot doesn't make him a hero. And he most certainly had no business sticking his nose into my State's capital punishment system. I'm gonna go with scumbag. That said, being a scumbag doesn't mean you deserve to be shot, nor does it mean you should lose your 1st amendment rights.

Before someone jumps on me about my capital punishment comment, the man wasn't being executed for shooting Flynt. It had nothing whatsoever to do with that particular crime. It was a Missouri matter and some California whoever had no business telling us what to do.
 
Larry Flynt, a fellow kentuckian. I loved the movie, I've seen it a few times. The movie gave me a favorable impression of him. However it is a movie so I don't know how accurate it is. My stepfather said you can't even mention his name in magoffin county, people there really hate him, probably it's a religious place. Then again, my stepfather is prone to exaggeration.

Courtney Love was excellent in the movie, just a perfect role for her. I heard she had to get regular drug tests and the film company took out a huge insurance policy because of her. Milos Forman really wanted her in the role and fortunately they agreed to take the risk. I'd like to see her in more stuff. Her bad reputation just really hurts a potential movie career. Even if she has a narrow range there are enough similar roles out there that she could do. It was kind of funny at the beginning when we're supposed to believe she's 17.

If Larry Flynt hadn't have got shot and paralyzed I think he would have died of AIDS so in a way it saved his life.
 
Didn't he out several Republicans for cheating on their spouses during the Clinton impeachment process? Hero.
 
Probably both. He's a heroic smut-peddler who sticks by his morals, which include not executing people and mass-marketing pictures of nekkid women.
 
Thanks for posting this - I never saw the movie, but I just watched the second clip. I think I should watch the whole movie some time.

To be honest, I'll watch anything with Edward Norton. First saw him in American History X. I judge films by how often I think of them in the months and years afterwards. Most of my most memorable movies have Edward Norton in them :hmm:

As regards 1st Amendment considerations, I'd rate Larry Flynt "Hero" based on the material provided in the OP. I'm sure real life is stranger and more complicated than fiction, but that's what I'm going with now.
 
The reason he is a hero is because he is (to certain parts of the public at least) a scumbag. A tenacious, principled savvy entrepreneur scumbag.
 
Neither.

He has virtues and vices like the rest of us.

Anyone can take a correct stand on freedom of speech- doesn't make them a hero.

He's not a villain, though. I'd rate Jerry Fallwell to be much more of a villain than Larry Flynt, along with the 700 club geezer.
 
Neither.

He has virtues and vices like the rest of us.

Anyone can take a correct stand on freedom of speech- doesn't make them a hero.
His "correct stand" includes him getting attacked by crazed gunmen and G-men alike. That's no internet news-comment flyby.

Just getting himself shot doesn't make him a hero. And he most certainly had no business sticking his nose into my State's capital punishment system. I'm gonna go with scumbag. That said, being a scumbag doesn't mean you deserve to be shot, nor does it mean you should lose your 1st amendment rights.

Before someone jumps on me about my capital punishment comment, the man wasn't being executed for shooting Flynt. It had nothing whatsoever to do with that particular crime. It was a Missouri matter and some California whoever had no business telling us what to do.

Don't you find it a bit insane that we give the power to kill citizens to our state governments? On some level it's an admission that people in one state are simply less valuable than the people in another. I'm not sure why a state would do that to itself. :scan:

edit: and to be clear, my state kills its people as well so this isn't a "my state is better than yours" thing.
 
His "correct stand" includes him getting attacked by crazed gunmen and G-men alike. That's no internet news-comment flyby.

That's not something he did, it's something that happened to him.

Other people being evil scumbags to you does not a hero make. It makes a victim.

Victims are not the same as heroes. They don't deserve to be victims, but being attacked by an evil scumbag does not infuse you with virtues you didn't have before you became a victim.

Evil scumbags, so-so people, average people, good people, and heroes alike can all be victims. Being a victim is not a value judgment.
 
That's not something he did, it's something that happened to him.

Other people being evil scumbags to you does not a hero make. It makes a victim.

Victims are not the same as heroes. They don't deserve to be victims, but being attacked by an evil scumbag does not infuse you with virtues you didn't have before you became a victim.

Evil scumbags, so-so people, average people, good people, and heroes alike can all be victims. Being a victim is not a value judgment.
I feel like to make your point you're treating everything that happened to him as something that happened all at once, one time.
 
I feel like to make your point you're treating everything that happened to him as something that happened all at once, one time.

I am not sure why you feel that way.

Example- people who were abused, repeatedly, as children are not heroes. They're victims.

Having bad stuff happen to you does not infuse you with virtue. That is why victims and heroes are two different things.

Being a hero is something you do. Being a victim is something that happens to you.
 
Don't you find it a bit insane that we give the power to kill citizens to our state governments? On some level it's an admission that people in one state are simply less valuable than the people in another. I'm not sure why a state would do that to itself. :scan:

edit: and to be clear, my state kills its people as well so this isn't a "my state is better than yours" thing.

I don't find it insane in the least. It's more different than France and the UK each independently having the death penalty (when they had it.)
 
@pizzaguy Being a hero is what you do in the face of the things that can happen to you because of what you're doing.

Larry Flynt sticks up for free speech and does so even when he faces bodily harm, social rejection, financial threat, etc. and never backed down after being repeatedly victimized. I'm sure he'd trade his entire financial empire to regain the full use of his body again, but that he'd probably trade no such thing for his principles is where the respect comes from.

I totally get what you're saying, that we need to be healthier with the term hero than to just give it to anyone who happened to get the bad end of the stick, but I think precisely because he was willing to put him self in danger to promote free speech means he deserves some credit.
 
Being a hero is what you do in the face of the things that can happen to you because of what you're doing.

Larry Flynt sticks up for free speech and does so even when he faces bodily harm, social rejection, financial threat, etc. and never backed down after being repeatedly victimized. I'm sure he'd trade his entire financial empire to regain the full use of his body again, but that he'd probably trade no such thing for his principles is where the respect comes from.

I totally get what you're saying, that we need to be healthier with the term hero than to just give it to anyone who happened to get the bad end of the stick, but I think precisely because he was willing to put him self in danger to promote free speech means he deserves some credit.

Not shutting up when others try to silence him is admirable, but not heroic in my book.

He's no more heroic than any politician, who puts themselves in front of crowds to argue for certain policies. There's always a risk some nutjob shoots you.

Well, there have been several shootings directly outside the pizza place I work at. People have ran into my store, bleeding out. This has happened several times. My car's been stolen, I've been rammed into by text-n-drivers, wound up in the hospital. I face danger every day going into darkened neighborhoods with high crime. I continue to do it, even though it is dangerous, and bad stuff repeatedly happens to me, has injured me physically and financially.

I am not a hero.
I am just a guy who is stubbornly doing his thing.

This is not heroism. Heroism is the retired firefighter who goes to ground zero on 9/12 and works 12 hour shifts digging out survivors, when nobody knew if we were getting hit again, when nobody was offering a paycheck, when it was a dangerous situation and the conditions were hazardous and people suffered long term harm, all to save lives, selflessly.

That's a hero.

Stubbornly standing up for one's political beliefs is admirable, and we should all. Doing a risky task is brave. But heroism, it is not.
 
Oh, and the house I was living in- some nutjob came and tried to literally murder my roommate by standing at the window and firing random shots into the darkness. One almost hit my roommate, one almost hit me.

I'm still not a hero. That word gets thrown around so much it loses all meaning.

Stubborn, unafraid, these are words that can be used. Hero? That's a whole different ballgame, folks. It takes more than stubbornness to be a hero.
 
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