Leader / Civ Picking Thread

I'm just shutting up and reading. This game hasn't even started yet, and it's already friggin brilliant.

 

I'd say IND, being alone with IND is huge and it seems like that could happen..

So, HC or Bismarck, depending if we want FIN or EXP..

 

I must agree that we need a leader that will be good in general terms. Out of the leaders laid out, I think Huayna Capac does not really stand up to this standard. I feel Huayna is kind of one trick pony. He does wonders for wonders, but that's about it (compared to other FIN leaders that is). I'd hate to see us relying on wonder. Rushing for any specific one is very risky and building as much as possible is going to cost us in diplomacy.

Out of other leaders I kind of like the potential for skulduggery Mansa Musa has. As pointed out before in this thread, doing anything else than EE with Mansa is sure going to take others by surprise.

 

getting pretty late here and definitely not sure if the demand from sommers still stands (not sure how much time we get before we have to finally vote)

but i prepared couple of saves with Pacal of Egypt, Sury of India, Izzy of India and Mansa of India on the same map/starting location.

I left out barbs (hopefully) and tried to generate something that could look like the capital we can get. (the first start loc was like 5 gold with not enough food, lol)

can maybe look into it tomorrow, but feel free to test a bit the economy to T40/50 to get better insight.

it's Emperor diff, toroidal wrap (hopefully) and i hope i didn't make some really bad mistake.

 

Well I'm thoroughly confused now. I'd pushed for Uuayna Capac earlier, it seems a wonder heavy strategy is not favored because it would put a target on our backs, which is reasonable. My multiplayer experience is with a group of friends that aren't very aggressive, so I'm not used to seeing a wonder heavy strategy hunted down.

I would be very happy with Mansa Musa, as well as Isabella. I still feel like Financial is the better trait to have, but expansionist is starting to grow on me, mostly because I'd like to see how more experienced players utilize it. I only wish this discussion had picked up like this a few days ago when we would have had more time to mull it over and run test cases.

 

I think you can make our pick as Mansa Musa, Sommerswerd.

 

I posted that we might need another day to decide. I respect the experience of bistrita and 2metra too much to not give them a full chance to sway folks to their choice. Plus I want somebody to have a chance to take a look at that tho test saves vranasm made. So maybe a weekend day is just what the doctor ordered for that.

I am still convinced that Mansa Musa is the better pick, but I am no dictator (regardless of popular opinion) I genuinely want us to have the best leader choice for the circumstances.

Which is why we went Civ first. Im convinced that was the right move as there are so many great leader choices.

IND trait means you must build Wonders, as many as you can, or you're wasting it. In this game there is Boudica of Zulu, Maya, Inca, and Egypt... all known rushmongers. Maya and Inca especially are kings of the choke. If we are Wonderwhoring, as you should do with IND, they will all know this and they would be foolish not to rush us when they know we have no army because were Wonderwhoring. At least thats what Id expect from experienced players.

Lets see if anyone wants to test out the starts. there is no harm in waiting. I like Mansa Musa too, but our opponents will understand if we take a little extra time.

Anyway they owe us 24 hours from our first pick which I made almost instantly.

 

Thanks for requesting the extra time, but you made me panic there for a second!

Mansa Musa is solid, and I will be very happy with that pick, but I do think that the start will be a little slower with him, so we'll have to make that up with great gameplay and diplomacy. If we take Exp we can get our cities up and running faster with granaries for whipping and fast workers to improve our tiles.

I also want to hear more from 2metra, and will try to find out a little more about civic upkeep. I'd love to hear more of bistrita's thoughts, too.

 

OK I couldnt sleep, so I played the test Map with Mansa Musa of India. I had 3 cities on turn 37. Now mind you I wasn't even trying, no calculating, no restarting... first try 3 cities on turn 37 and 5 cities on turn 58. I would have had 7 on turn 65-66 but I just stopped because there was no point.

Since bistrita warned us that RB would get 3 cities by turn 40, I feel pretty confident that Mansa Musa with Fastworkers can hold his own in terms of REX.

 

well if we do tests it's always better to post the save you came up with so everyone can see the cost you paid for the effort you claim you did...

this one seems like you did worker, warrior(s), settler, settler?

it's obvious if we want strong rex we will for the first 60 turns build only worker, settler, warrior, axe (I suppose mapmaker makes sure everyone has copper) and maybe 1 library will be started around T60

edit:

1 thing should not be overlooked though is worker->granary OF strategy that can be employed by RB with pacal, but needs food heavy capital

 

Tried with Sury as well. Now this has not been a scientific study, mind you... just kicking the tires a little.

I played it different this time, going to the plains hill to settle instead of settling in place. The extra hammer dropped the production to 12 not 10 as I expected, but I only wasted 3 tunrs getting to the hill and it saved 3 turns on the worker, so it was an even trade

On this game I got 3 cities by turn 37 again, but this time I also got GW on tun 43. I will see if I can duplicate the feat with Mansa Musa.

 

"Claim" I did? Why not just "the effort you did"? Hmmm sounds like you have sumpthin on yer mind pard'ner . What reason do I have to "claim" results unless I actually got those results?

Anyway I went Worker, settler settler all chops in the first test and Worker worker settler settler GW in the 2nd city on the 2nd test. That hopefully gives enough info for anyone to test for themselves.

 

ah sorry old habits ;-)

well i took the pacal of egypt save, I admit I didn't have 3 cities by turn 37, but I think the save should look interesting (I did normal opening I would use with this type of map, the target was not to beat t37 3 cities, but how I would play the opening with the land).

played it a bit to t50 to see how things evolve

 

So not a roarin' military then. The price you pay.

 

ok took sury now... now things went different

biggest difference is that India doesn't have early access to pottery, which I abused a bit with Egypt. at t50 I already started on math, while with sury I don't even have AH yet.

lack of access to pottery with this start means you have to farm flood plains I didn't with Egypt (but that really is map specific)

otoh I got to 4 cities at t50 with 4 fast workers, 5 warriors, 1 axe in 1T and another one in 2T

mind you not sure if there is need for archery in between economic techs (that's something I will always respect if MP players say we need archery at point X)

 

and mansa musa, izzy i won't do since i personally don't like her

interesting enough this time some things went a bit different then with sury (not sure why)

have 4th city 2 turns sooner then with sury. like this a bit better then sury

problem still remains the techs, if RB goes with pottery first and capital area will have flood plains they will have big tech advantage, that's something we can't match and will be in catch up right from start.

mind you maybe strategy of all teams will be BW first, but with egypt would be a bit foolish especially if there will be commerce tiles

 

I was talikg about a normal start not a 3 producion plant posible.

 

i had a run with Surry.At turn 50 i had 4 cities planted all with granary well the 4th was 1 or 2 turns to completion, 4 workers , 2 wariours (i could had more if wanted) and like techs i had potery fishibg,bw and started on hunting.The important thing ist all cities ahd granary with hunting resource happy cap would be 5 so evry city will work in less then 10 turn 3-4 cottages.and i didnt took the marble hill becasue thats for sure we dont get something like that.I chalnege anyone to get something similar or betetr with other leader, and yea was played without reloads or something like that for beter worker management, i am sure i could have 2-3 wariors more or even 1 worker.

 

Loked again at vrnasm play wich its realy strong, but few question how much will take until fish and corn will be worked? how much will take until granaries in all 4 cities, by that time Surry will have all cities size 5 and capitol 6 working a bunch of cotages and aftr Ah we go writing and get some very fast libraries...

 

One thing to consider guys- the map maker might do something similar to the last game. Racing to BW and then a quick rush would have been a waste of time. Since this is a multi-site game there might be some protections in place to prevent a site from getting eliminated early.

And we shouldn't forget how important early contact with the other teams is, even with tech trading off. Remember, this isn't your usual sp game.