Learning Emperor
- Thread starter quill18
- Start date
I never tech monarchy myself, since the ai usually gets it pretty early as you can see. But you only put a few breakers in it so no harm done. (Unless I pick it from oracle or something)
Imho you can either go aest/lit and build GL. Or you can try trading col for maths or something and aim for cats and war. If you do go aest/lit, don't trade it too fast. Get some hammers into gl before trading aest and wait with literature till you're near completion. But since you're a monarch/emperor player, I'm not sure why I even bothered saying that.
But what would keep me away from war is the fact that you still have some land to settle.
As for this whole liz thing .. I'm actually not certain if declaring was the right thing to do. On one side diplo looks good, on the other side this is not the perfect time to be at war.
You might need to somewhat launch a fake attack on some city. Put some axes into the forest next to London, it'll give the ai pressure and should give you a better deal for peace. I'm not sure if pillaging helps, it's worth a try.
And I just noticed.. Hastings looks like too much of a sweet deal to pass. Three units defending, only 20% defense and it has marble. But you'll need some more axes for that.
However from what I see that city has no food so it's kind of a junk city till you can irrigate farms there. It's going to have culture problems aswell and you probably wont get access to the marble after all. I'm just trowing it in as an option.
What to do with the scientist is something that's very debatable. I would put an academy in amsterdam. Amsterdam+cottages+bureaucracy is going to be some nice stuff. Unless you plan to move the capital?
An academy in amsterdam is what would benefit you the most short-mid term to say at least imho. It should shave off some turns of your next research. This won't be your last GS by far, you can build an academy in the hague later.
I would go for hereditary and stay with slavery at this point. If this turns ugly you can whip axes. Caste system won't do much for you here, you can switch later 'if' you want to run more then 2 scientists in certain cities.
I think whipping amsterdam while keeping the scientists+working clams "might" give you a better science vs production ratio then switching those scientist to mines. I'm not into calculating stuff like this so I'm not sure. On the other hand your tech speed seems fine so it probably won't matter much in the end.
ps: I didn't use edits this time, muhahaha.
Imho you can either go aest/lit and build GL. Or you can try trading col for maths or something and aim for cats and war. If you do go aest/lit, don't trade it too fast. Get some hammers into gl before trading aest and wait with literature till you're near completion. But since you're a monarch/emperor player, I'm not sure why I even bothered saying that.
But what would keep me away from war is the fact that you still have some land to settle.
As for this whole liz thing .. I'm actually not certain if declaring was the right thing to do. On one side diplo looks good, on the other side this is not the perfect time to be at war.
You might need to somewhat launch a fake attack on some city. Put some axes into the forest next to London, it'll give the ai pressure and should give you a better deal for peace. I'm not sure if pillaging helps, it's worth a try.
And I just noticed.. Hastings looks like too much of a sweet deal to pass. Three units defending, only 20% defense and it has marble. But you'll need some more axes for that.
However from what I see that city has no food so it's kind of a junk city till you can irrigate farms there. It's going to have culture problems aswell and you probably wont get access to the marble after all. I'm just trowing it in as an option.
What to do with the scientist is something that's very debatable. I would put an academy in amsterdam. Amsterdam+cottages+bureaucracy is going to be some nice stuff. Unless you plan to move the capital?
An academy in amsterdam is what would benefit you the most short-mid term to say at least imho. It should shave off some turns of your next research. This won't be your last GS by far, you can build an academy in the hague later.
I would go for hereditary and stay with slavery at this point. If this turns ugly you can whip axes. Caste system won't do much for you here, you can switch later 'if' you want to run more then 2 scientists in certain cities.
I think whipping amsterdam while keeping the scientists+working clams "might" give you a better science vs production ratio then switching those scientist to mines. I'm not into calculating stuff like this so I'm not sure. On the other hand your tech speed seems fine so it probably won't matter much in the end.
ps: I didn't use edits this time, muhahaha.
quill18
Warlord
Duh...bureaucracy, of course. You're right, short/mid term is much aided by building in Amsterdam.
That's what I was thinking.
quill18
Warlord
It's Saturday morning and I should be able to sink plenty of turns into the game.
First thing I do is revolt to Hereditary Rule.
189 - 235 AD
My good old pal Charlemagne declares war on Liz!!! How's Judaism feeling now, sweetheart?
She still wants Utrecht (I'm still low on the power charts) but I'm working hard to bring a force to her lands.
A couple of turns later, this happens:
I don't THINK so.
193 - 295 AD
I must still be half asleep, as I'm forgetting to check on my trades. Luckily, my buddy Charles is looking after me:
In other news, Liz has kept an 2xAxe/2xSword stack sitting on a mine in Utrecht since the war started. She hasn't pillaged it or anything, just blocked it. She must be REALLY certain that she can capture Utrecht.
I've never seen an AI do that.
194 - 310 AD
MORE bad luck! Surely there are good random events somewhere???
Oh, the Aztecs are getting the good luck with the "parrots as pets" event.
...
Two pillages later and with a trio of Axemen outside of York, Liz still wants a city for peace.
*sigh*
This money is nice though.
We get Aesthetics on turn 201, with 7 turns to research lit. Both Liz and Kublai has Aesthetics already. Eep.
Charlemagne completes the Colosus on turn 202 and is leaving the pack behind in score.
In better news, my score has passed Liz's and Monty's!
On turn 203, Christianity is founded in Vienna. Hm.
Next turn, Liz and Charlie make peace. She still wants Utrecht from me...
Wow! London is down to just two defending SWORDS at the moment, and only +27% defense.
Next turn: And an archer now.
208 - 520 AD
I'm going to say no here, though it may be pointless as two other civ has Aesthetics. I am first to Lit though (this turn).
Amsterdam needs a whopping 24 turns to build the GL (22H/turn, no marble, no industrious) - and that's with Stagnation and crippling my commerce. Worth it, though, if I can get it.
Next turn the Khmer want me to break off trades with Charlie. Yeah, he's not going to like me much... I think he might be off-continent, which protects me a LITTLE, but also means that I have to watch out for attacks on Amsterdam/Glittering Pigs a bit more...
217 - 655 AD
Monty declares on Elizabeth again.
218 - 670 AD
Liz makes a move on Utrecht again. I kill 2 Swords, 3 Axes and lose nothing, and then she poisons my water supply!
It's a good thing she didn't throw my city into revolt before the attack -- THAT would have made a huge difference.
Monty reclaims one of his cities from Liz (from the earlier war).
She STILL wants Utrecht for peace.
220 - 700 AD
I get my first GG! I'm going to settle him in Utrecht, since it's a frontline production city. Amsterdam would also be a valid (better?) choice.
Taoism is founded in a distant land.
Christianity spreads to our lands! This is great news, I think, as Charlie will certainly convert to it (he founded it). Still, for now we stay pagan.
My pillaging campaign against Liz is still ongoing. I'm now squatting on her Iron...
223 - 745 AD
Taoism spreads to us.
Liz converts to Christianity. Okay...why, at this point? No one would have asked her. I guess Charles must just be spreading it aggressively.
Next turn, the Aztecs take Canterbury.
Well it's about TIME!!!
For the first time in 1055 years, we're at peace!
I get a quest:
I had this happen in another game, but for horses. The reward for claiming the square was 4 Chariots.
Unfortunately, I don't think I can culture-flip the tile.
There's 6 turns left on my GL build.
I complete construction and decide to research Currency, which only Kublai has.
I trade CoL and Aesthetics to the Khmer in exchange for Calendar and Monotheism.
A few turns later, the Buddhist AP is built. Hm...
I change my research to sink a turn into Metal Casting.
230 - 850 AD
Islam is founded.
232 - 870 AD
We complete the GL!
We also take the barbarian city of Olmec with our spare troops, at no loss:
All that jungle means lots of grassland for cottages -- plus we've got spice and dyes too!
To be continued below...
First thing I do is revolt to Hereditary Rule.
189 - 235 AD
My good old pal Charlemagne declares war on Liz!!! How's Judaism feeling now, sweetheart?
She still wants Utrecht (I'm still low on the power charts) but I'm working hard to bring a force to her lands.
A couple of turns later, this happens:
I don't THINK so.
193 - 295 AD
I must still be half asleep, as I'm forgetting to check on my trades. Luckily, my buddy Charles is looking after me:
In other news, Liz has kept an 2xAxe/2xSword stack sitting on a mine in Utrecht since the war started. She hasn't pillaged it or anything, just blocked it. She must be REALLY certain that she can capture Utrecht.
I've never seen an AI do that.
194 - 310 AD
MORE bad luck! Surely there are good random events somewhere???
Oh, the Aztecs are getting the good luck with the "parrots as pets" event.
...
Two pillages later and with a trio of Axemen outside of York, Liz still wants a city for peace.
*sigh*
This money is nice though.
We get Aesthetics on turn 201, with 7 turns to research lit. Both Liz and Kublai has Aesthetics already. Eep.
Charlemagne completes the Colosus on turn 202 and is leaving the pack behind in score.
In better news, my score has passed Liz's and Monty's!
On turn 203, Christianity is founded in Vienna. Hm.
Next turn, Liz and Charlie make peace. She still wants Utrecht from me...
Wow! London is down to just two defending SWORDS at the moment, and only +27% defense.
Next turn: And an archer now.
208 - 520 AD
I'm going to say no here, though it may be pointless as two other civ has Aesthetics. I am first to Lit though (this turn).
Amsterdam needs a whopping 24 turns to build the GL (22H/turn, no marble, no industrious) - and that's with Stagnation and crippling my commerce. Worth it, though, if I can get it.
Next turn the Khmer want me to break off trades with Charlie. Yeah, he's not going to like me much... I think he might be off-continent, which protects me a LITTLE, but also means that I have to watch out for attacks on Amsterdam/Glittering Pigs a bit more...
217 - 655 AD
Monty declares on Elizabeth again.
218 - 670 AD
Liz makes a move on Utrecht again. I kill 2 Swords, 3 Axes and lose nothing, and then she poisons my water supply!
It's a good thing she didn't throw my city into revolt before the attack -- THAT would have made a huge difference.
Monty reclaims one of his cities from Liz (from the earlier war).
She STILL wants Utrecht for peace.
220 - 700 AD
I get my first GG! I'm going to settle him in Utrecht, since it's a frontline production city. Amsterdam would also be a valid (better?) choice.
Taoism is founded in a distant land.
Christianity spreads to our lands! This is great news, I think, as Charlie will certainly convert to it (he founded it). Still, for now we stay pagan.
My pillaging campaign against Liz is still ongoing. I'm now squatting on her Iron...
223 - 745 AD
Taoism spreads to us.
Liz converts to Christianity. Okay...why, at this point? No one would have asked her. I guess Charles must just be spreading it aggressively.
Next turn, the Aztecs take Canterbury.
Well it's about TIME!!!
For the first time in 1055 years, we're at peace!
I get a quest:
I had this happen in another game, but for horses. The reward for claiming the square was 4 Chariots.
Unfortunately, I don't think I can culture-flip the tile.
There's 6 turns left on my GL build.
I complete construction and decide to research Currency, which only Kublai has.
I trade CoL and Aesthetics to the Khmer in exchange for Calendar and Monotheism.
A few turns later, the Buddhist AP is built. Hm...
I change my research to sink a turn into Metal Casting.
230 - 850 AD
Islam is founded.
232 - 870 AD
We complete the GL!
We also take the barbarian city of Olmec with our spare troops, at no loss:
All that jungle means lots of grassland for cottages -- plus we've got spice and dyes too!
To be continued below...
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
Seems like you built the Academy in Amsterdam according to the latest screenie? IMHO that was right move as this is gonna be your GS farm with GL + more specialists due to the surplus food.
Overall priorities from here are up for debate but could include
Backfilling your lands (Gold dessert + 1N?E of Rice E of Amsterdam)
Going after Liz
Teching for liberalism - ie GS focus (good way to do this is 4 GS - Phil, Paper, Education & Lib (if you don't research machinery)
I'm inclinded to expand and go for liberalism but thats prob the builder in me...
Another question at this stage is what re espionage - at the moment you just have it spread over everyone (admittedly without many courhouses et you only have 4/turn) but I think the key choice at this point is re Liz - if she is your target you may wanna direct all at her or if she will die soon then make sure no espionage for her otherwise it will be lost.
I am unsure of best use of espionage myself so would welcome suggestions
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
Interesting option that I missed - for me the perfect illustration of how a general strategy should adapt to the map. I always try to block the AI in order to be able to compete later on (land is power after all
) but being able to outtech the AI earlier on due to gold + gems may have been the best way to goMaybe someone (like me...) should play a shadow from an earlier save and see how it goes
quill18
Warlord
Urg... the same turn that our peace treaty expires, Liz wants us to convert to Christianity.
I *really* don't want to go to war with her again, and I'm SURE that a change to christianity is inevitable if Charlie founded it... but right now this is just going to do terrible things to my relationships with every BUT Liz.
So I say no.
Turn 235 - 900 AD
Rotterdam is founded:
It's going to have some food issues, but should be decent.
Turn 240 - 950 AD
Liz wants Construction for 370. I'd LOVE the money...but do I want her to have cats? It would only take her building 3-4 of them to overrun me I bet. I have to decline.
Now, on the other hand I can give her Lit, CoL, and Calendar for Feudalism (and STILL have 3 techs on her -- she is really backwards). I think this is a fantastic idea -- Longbows will go a long way to letting me play a defensive game. I still have numerous places to backfill and lots of nice islands to settle.
Monty and Liz make peace.
I'm going to queue up Civil Service at this point. Philosophy has been known for some time and I don't think that I can win a race to Liberalism. Bureaucracy would be nice, and Rotterdam and Glittering Pigs would benefit from having a farm built next to the city tile (this works, right?)
Turn 242 - 970 AD
Charlie offers me Horseback Riding and 110 gold for Currency. While the gold is nice, I really don't need Horsearchers right now...
And wow, Liz is quite demanding. She wants me to cancel deals with the Aztecs now. I'm sure we're headed for war, but I can't agree.
Turn 246 - 1010 AD
Another slave revolt in Amsterdam...
And Buddhism FINALLY spreads to us. Charlie and Monty are still Buddhist, and I'm cultivating strong relations with them, so I accept.
I also get a GS, which I will use for an academy in The Hague.
The next turn, I make these changes:
I'd still like to be Slavery in case of emergency, but I'm done with those revolts. OR is primarily for the missionaries at this point. I want to spread it quickly.
Turn 255 - 1100 AD
Kmher want me to cancel trades with the English. No, sorry.
Monty wants Aesthetics. Sure buddy, always happy to help!
CS comes in and I swap to bureaucracy.
I FINALLY open my eyes and realize that I can do some GPT trades...
This lets me bump my science rate up 10% to 60%.
Turn 259 - 1140 AD
First AP vote comes up: Stop trading with Suryavarman. I vote no, but it passes...
Turn 263 - 1140 AD
The Khmer break off a colony and we get Stalin. Hm, apparently I can trade with him, so I OB.
Turn 263 - 1140 AD
Machinery comes in, but I have no good trades to do with it. I finally decide to give Construction to Liz in exchange for all her 450gold since I have some pretty solid defensive units at this point, and I could use the money for deficit spending. I'd like to grab a tech that I could use for better trading soon...
Hey, I just realized that while the AP resolution closed my borders with Suryavarman, it did not cancel our GPT deal. Strange.
Turn 269 - 1240 AD
Charlie declares war on the still Christian Liz! If Monty joins in on the dogpile, that will eliminate two big threats to my security.
Only question is what to do if they ask me to join...
I *really* don't want to go to war with her again, and I'm SURE that a change to christianity is inevitable if Charlie founded it... but right now this is just going to do terrible things to my relationships with every BUT Liz.
So I say no.
Turn 235 - 900 AD
Rotterdam is founded:
It's going to have some food issues, but should be decent.
Turn 240 - 950 AD
Liz wants Construction for 370. I'd LOVE the money...but do I want her to have cats? It would only take her building 3-4 of them to overrun me I bet. I have to decline.
Now, on the other hand I can give her Lit, CoL, and Calendar for Feudalism (and STILL have 3 techs on her -- she is really backwards). I think this is a fantastic idea -- Longbows will go a long way to letting me play a defensive game. I still have numerous places to backfill and lots of nice islands to settle.
Monty and Liz make peace.
I'm going to queue up Civil Service at this point. Philosophy has been known for some time and I don't think that I can win a race to Liberalism. Bureaucracy would be nice, and Rotterdam and Glittering Pigs would benefit from having a farm built next to the city tile (this works, right?)
Turn 242 - 970 AD
Charlie offers me Horseback Riding and 110 gold for Currency. While the gold is nice, I really don't need Horsearchers right now...
And wow, Liz is quite demanding. She wants me to cancel deals with the Aztecs now. I'm sure we're headed for war, but I can't agree.
Turn 246 - 1010 AD
Another slave revolt in Amsterdam...
And Buddhism FINALLY spreads to us. Charlie and Monty are still Buddhist, and I'm cultivating strong relations with them, so I accept.
I also get a GS, which I will use for an academy in The Hague.
The next turn, I make these changes:
I'd still like to be Slavery in case of emergency, but I'm done with those revolts. OR is primarily for the missionaries at this point. I want to spread it quickly.
Turn 255 - 1100 AD
Kmher want me to cancel trades with the English. No, sorry.
Monty wants Aesthetics. Sure buddy, always happy to help!
CS comes in and I swap to bureaucracy.
I FINALLY open my eyes and realize that I can do some GPT trades...
This lets me bump my science rate up 10% to 60%.
Turn 259 - 1140 AD
First AP vote comes up: Stop trading with Suryavarman. I vote no, but it passes...
Turn 263 - 1140 AD
The Khmer break off a colony and we get Stalin. Hm, apparently I can trade with him, so I OB.
Turn 263 - 1140 AD
Machinery comes in, but I have no good trades to do with it. I finally decide to give Construction to Liz in exchange for all her 450gold since I have some pretty solid defensive units at this point, and I could use the money for deficit spending. I'd like to grab a tech that I could use for better trading soon...
Hey, I just realized that while the AP resolution closed my borders with Suryavarman, it did not cancel our GPT deal. Strange.
Turn 269 - 1240 AD
Charlie declares war on the still Christian Liz! If Monty joins in on the dogpile, that will eliminate two big threats to my security.
Only question is what to do if they ask me to join...
quill18
Warlord
Yuppers -- though I popped a second GS later for settling in The Hague. Glittering Pigs, I realized after the fact, is producing more commerce that The Hague, currently. The idea of second that 2nd GS there and using a 3rd one for The Hague might have had merit.
...Or do some people think that maybe settling (or lightbulbing) after the 2nd academy is better?
Excellent point. War has begun again, but if she survives those EPs will be very useful. *1-turn revolt = win*
quill18
Warlord
Interesting option that I missed - for me the perfect illustration of how a general strategy should adapt to the map. I always try to block the AI in order to be able to compete later on (land is power after all
Maybe someone (like me...) should play a shadow from an earlier save and see how it goes
That much more closely mirrors my general play style. My first settler is often aggressively placed not simply to block out territory -- but to serve as a launch pad for an invasion, or to deny/claim a resource.
The problem is that I felt more cautious due to the difficulty, feedback, and also the exaggerated game-rate from writing the play-by-play. After I missed out on copper and horses, it felt as though AGES had passed and that a rushed assault would come too late.
It's interesting, though, that if I'd done a more conservative placement of my second city (i.e. grab the cows/gold ASAP), I would have been in a better position to continue my research to IW and been able to execute an all-around more aggressive game.
With the spoiler info on the map, that's what I'd do now. Even if a Iron-fueled rush would have failed to work, there was still clearly a TON of territory (where The Hague is) that I could have claimed. My economy would have been more solid throughout the game too.
quill18
Warlord
First, let's adjust our EPs:
At our current rate, we'll need 45 turns to run my favorite: Support City Revolt. There's nothing like instantly dropping the cultural defense of a city to make an invasion go well...
I also rearrange my city builds a bit. Utrecht, for example, was a little concerned about losing tiles to English culture (only unworked tiles so far, but...) However, I get it working on a Maceman instead. Cottage-heavy The Hague actually has decent production (20H), partially due to the forge -- even while producing almost as much science as the 4-scientist Amsterdam. It builds a catapult.
I'm hoping to have 2-4 cats and 4-8 maces at the ready for when (not "if") I get called in to the war. I hope that even vs Longbows, it should be enough take one English city. My target would be york -- though it is TERRIBLY placed. One tile from the river. One from the coast. Two tiles of tundra. Still, it would probably be a great production city. Amsterdam is nearly done a Longbow, and may create another couple of 'em to be shipped to the front line.
Turn 273 - 1265AD
Nottingham falls to Charlie. Surely, Liz is in her deathhrows... If I want to snag a city from her, it will need to be before she capitulates.
Turn 276 - 1280AD
Monty joins the fight vs. Liz...
Turn 279 - 1295AD
Newcastle falls to the Aztecs. I'm pumping out cats as fast as I can!
Turn 280 - 1300AD
Two cats are ready in Utrecht, along with 4 maces, 3 axes, and 1 Longbow (leaving 2 Longbows and 1 archer in Utrecht, with more troops passing through on GOTO orders).
Kublai converts to Taoism, which he founded. Yes...give Charlie and Monty more targets...
Turn 282 - 1310AD
I declare against Liz. Even with just 2 cats in my first attack (2 more will be at the front in a couple turns), I need to make a move ASAP. At least those two can soften the defenses while the others arrive.
3rd GS pops. Glittering Pigs is really pumping out commerce nicely, so I'll build an academy there (my third).
Turn 283 - 1315AD
And......Liz capitulates to Charlie. Shortest. War. EVAR.
I suppose I shouldn't have wasted the effort, but at least I buffed my power rating a bit. I'm going to redistribute my maces to towards my squishy inner cities (fearing a sea attacking from the Khmer), and also closer to Monty's border.
'cuz...you know. Monty.
Here's my focus now:
- I'm ignoring the liberalism race.
- I'm going for Banking.
- I'm going to REX to the islands.
I think I can maintain the peace on my current continent (or defend my narrow front line). I'm behind in techs to Charles, Kublai and, to a lesser extend, Sury.
I'm hoping to pull off a financial/heavy-cottage late game tech comeback for a Space Victory.
I wonder, though. If we built the UN...could we pull off a diplomatic victory? Sury is currently #1 in population based on the Victory screen's Domination text. Would Charlie and Monty vote for me, and would it be enough?
We'll see how things are when we get to the phase. For now, I'll keep making nice with 'em out of self-preservation.
Oh, and if Charlie converts to Christianity, I'll probably want to follow him -- which will certainly put us at odds with buddhist-founding Monty.
Yeah, better not count on a Diplomatic victory.
Now, I'm not sure if this is wise, but I'm pumping Amsterdam (size 10) to 5 scientists. This is the most I can do without starving. We're in a tech crunch and we need an edge while the cottages mature. Plus, this is basically our GP farm.
Which suddenly makes me realize...you know what would be better than a GS right now? A merchant. A trade mission would net us HUGE money for deficit research. Hm... 3 GPT vs 3 beakers... The beakers are better because they'd get +75% vs +25%.
Hm.
Okay, maybe scientists for now, merchants for the next GP - after I get a bank (and grocery?) in Amsterdam.
Expansion plans:
Staring with the SE site, which next 2x fish, 1x crab, 1x horse.
At our current rate, we'll need 45 turns to run my favorite: Support City Revolt. There's nothing like instantly dropping the cultural defense of a city to make an invasion go well...
I also rearrange my city builds a bit. Utrecht, for example, was a little concerned about losing tiles to English culture (only unworked tiles so far, but...) However, I get it working on a Maceman instead. Cottage-heavy The Hague actually has decent production (20H), partially due to the forge -- even while producing almost as much science as the 4-scientist Amsterdam. It builds a catapult.
I'm hoping to have 2-4 cats and 4-8 maces at the ready for when (not "if") I get called in to the war. I hope that even vs Longbows, it should be enough take one English city. My target would be york -- though it is TERRIBLY placed. One tile from the river. One from the coast. Two tiles of tundra. Still, it would probably be a great production city. Amsterdam is nearly done a Longbow, and may create another couple of 'em to be shipped to the front line.
Turn 273 - 1265AD
Nottingham falls to Charlie. Surely, Liz is in her deathhrows... If I want to snag a city from her, it will need to be before she capitulates.
Turn 276 - 1280AD
Monty joins the fight vs. Liz...
Turn 279 - 1295AD
Newcastle falls to the Aztecs. I'm pumping out cats as fast as I can!
Turn 280 - 1300AD
Two cats are ready in Utrecht, along with 4 maces, 3 axes, and 1 Longbow (leaving 2 Longbows and 1 archer in Utrecht, with more troops passing through on GOTO orders).
Kublai converts to Taoism, which he founded. Yes...give Charlie and Monty more targets...
Turn 282 - 1310AD
I declare against Liz. Even with just 2 cats in my first attack (2 more will be at the front in a couple turns), I need to make a move ASAP. At least those two can soften the defenses while the others arrive.
3rd GS pops. Glittering Pigs is really pumping out commerce nicely, so I'll build an academy there (my third).
Turn 283 - 1315AD
And......Liz capitulates to Charlie. Shortest. War. EVAR.
I suppose I shouldn't have wasted the effort, but at least I buffed my power rating a bit. I'm going to redistribute my maces to towards my squishy inner cities (fearing a sea attacking from the Khmer), and also closer to Monty's border.
'cuz...you know. Monty.
Here's my focus now:
- I'm ignoring the liberalism race.
- I'm going for Banking.
- I'm going to REX to the islands.
I think I can maintain the peace on my current continent (or defend my narrow front line). I'm behind in techs to Charles, Kublai and, to a lesser extend, Sury.
I'm hoping to pull off a financial/heavy-cottage late game tech comeback for a Space Victory.
I wonder, though. If we built the UN...could we pull off a diplomatic victory? Sury is currently #1 in population based on the Victory screen's Domination text. Would Charlie and Monty vote for me, and would it be enough?
We'll see how things are when we get to the phase. For now, I'll keep making nice with 'em out of self-preservation.
Oh, and if Charlie converts to Christianity, I'll probably want to follow him -- which will certainly put us at odds with buddhist-founding Monty.
Yeah, better not count on a Diplomatic victory.
Now, I'm not sure if this is wise, but I'm pumping Amsterdam (size 10) to 5 scientists. This is the most I can do without starving. We're in a tech crunch and we need an edge while the cottages mature. Plus, this is basically our GP farm.
Which suddenly makes me realize...you know what would be better than a GS right now? A merchant. A trade mission would net us HUGE money for deficit research. Hm... 3 GPT vs 3 beakers... The beakers are better because they'd get +75% vs +25%.
Hm.
Okay, maybe scientists for now, merchants for the next GP - after I get a bank (and grocery?) in Amsterdam.
Expansion plans:
Staring with the SE site, which next 2x fish, 1x crab, 1x horse.
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
While I agree you need to expand and that Willem is well suited to water cities with his UB I think you should get your home continent cities up and running soon / first (lower maintenance) - there are at least 2 more sites there
If you are ignoring liberalism (which for what its worth you could have won comfortably if you hadn't got machinery and cut of the GS lightbulbs) I would consider beeling democracy for emancipation and rapid cottage growth.
For the next GS I would reccomend bulbing printing press for the +1 Gold on towns and villages.
Also don't forget to get the awesome UB up and running as soon as possible (think ahead I think you get it with steam power)
quill18
Warlord
What's Aztec for "please don't hurt me?"
Oh...but Monty is still willing to talk about attacking an AI...he's not set to attack already. Good! I was sure that stack was coming my way!
It might still, but at least I can be a little more forewarned. What sucks is that I've got a -2 penalty with Monty due to border tensions with his new English cities.
Anyway, I clearly need me some anti-mounted-unit defenses. Fast.
I'm directing my EPs to Monty because he needs watching. I actually lost him from my Power meter. Actually, I'm going to split the EPs between him and Kublai. The Mongols would be an AWESOME target for Monty's aggression. They are currently at about a -1, due to borders, years of peace, and religious tension.
Banking comes in. I can't give up 30-40 gpt to switch to Mercantilism (though Charlie has switched to it). I'm going to go for paper and I'd like to beeling Economics if I think I can get their first, else it will be printing press first.
I trade Banking around, picking up three techs, including Compass. I wish I had OB with Sury for some really good trade route income. Ah well...
Turn 294 - 1370 AD
Many peaceful "builder" turns later, I get a cool event:
Now, for "free" I get +1 to the plot. I think it's worth 136 gold for the shot at +3 health...and a free scientist! *crosses fingers*
I don't think I got the super-bonus.
But I did pop Iron 1N of Glittering Pigs!!!!
The extra 2H in that plot is going to allow me to switch from mines to windmills on the other hills immediately. That city needs a food boost, so that's great. (Plus the commerce too.)
Turn 300 - 1400 AD
Liz hits the seas:
I might be able to flip this city -- but I need to fill up my islands quickly before they are stolen.
Turn 306 - 1430 AD
I meet Frederick of Germany, who's so backwards as to not have Calendar!
He's the founder of Confuscionism and obviously isolated somewhere.
Turn 308 - 1440 AD
The long awaited switch to Christianity has finally occurred in the Holy Roman Empire. I don't want to flip religions yet... I'm not his neighbour. Monty is a mutual neighbour between us. I'm hoping that those two civs go after each other and leave me alone.
Right now, Monty is FRIENDLY with us at +12, meaning he won't declare war, according to my research. On the other hand, he's FURIOUS with Charly (-7). Charly is +3 with us and -3 with Monty.
I will convert the moment Charly asks me too, but until then I'll be quite pleased that Monty won't come my way...
*crosses fingers* DoW on Charly, DoW on Charly...
Actually, Monty has "too much on his hands" right now. That's either very good news, or very bad.
Next turn, Sury demands Optics. Yeah, that's fine -- I really don't want a defensive war right now...
Turn 313 - 1465 AD
Printing Press comes in. I trade it around for a few techs and big pots of gold.
I didn't realize it until now (MUST PAY MORE ATTENTION), but no one even has Education to date (but Gunpowder sure is getting around). Liberalism is looking like a real possibility all of a sudden. I should have pursued it sooner after all.
I can run a 90% research rate right now for about 20 turns thanks to money raised from the printing press. Education is due in 10...
A GS comes in. He can bulb about 2/3 the cost of Education.
Let's look at our status:
No one else has education yet.
Hey wait...Am I really basically in a tech-lead situation here?
How the HELL did that happen?
Hm...lemme check something.
Yup, wow. The AI has nothing to offer me save Divine Right (which they won't trade, and I don't want.)
(Everyone but Monty has the Printing Press now -- I think 2 had it when I discovered it, so I'm not giving up a democracy-line monopoly.)
Now, if I read this chart correctly, the GS will try to bulb Chemistry if I finish researching Education on my own.
So either I DON'T bulb him, and hope I win.
Or I DO bulb him, potentially without reason.
Okay, more checking.
Okay, let's see. No one has Education. Sury and Monty (who have similar GNPs as me) are missing philosophy, as is Stalin. Charlie (who I don't have charts for) doesn't even have paper yet.
That leaves Liz, Fred, and Kublai as the only people in the same position as me. Liz is behind me in GNP. Fred and Kublai are unknowns...
My gut tells me that we'll win. That I should settle the scientist in The Hague for long-term beaker benefits. Hm...how many beakers is he going to make? 6 base. At least doubled to 12 by buildings. That requires a 200 turn investment for a return. It's more than doubled with OU. And more than a base of 6 if I use Representation at some point. Still...100 turns for a payoff?
Screw it...I can't lose Liberalism at this point -- and it's not like the beakers are wasted even if we would have won without it.
2 turns left for Education to complete.
Turn 317 - 1485 AD
No one else has Education. I'm 7 turns from Liberalism at 100% research (-117/Turn!! I have 1634 banked though.)
Turn 319 - 1495 AD
Monty wants me to go to war with Charlie.
Listen, dude, I'd love nothing more than to knock Charlie down a peg and to gain your permanent love and affection through super lotsa ++++. But I can't do that.
He's got at LEAST Grenadiers. My longbows can't put up with that. But, don't let me stop YOU from declaring on him while I cower back here.
...
It didn't. Monty DoW on Charlie (and Liz).
Anyone have popcorn?
Oh...but Monty is still willing to talk about attacking an AI...he's not set to attack already. Good! I was sure that stack was coming my way!
It might still, but at least I can be a little more forewarned. What sucks is that I've got a -2 penalty with Monty due to border tensions with his new English cities.
Anyway, I clearly need me some anti-mounted-unit defenses. Fast.
I'm directing my EPs to Monty because he needs watching. I actually lost him from my Power meter.
Actually, I'm going to split the EPs between him and Kublai. The Mongols would be an AWESOME target for Monty's aggression. They are currently at about a -1, due to borders, years of peace, and religious tension.Banking comes in. I can't give up 30-40 gpt to switch to Mercantilism (though Charlie has switched to it). I'm going to go for paper and I'd like to beeling Economics if I think I can get their first, else it will be printing press first.
I trade Banking around, picking up three techs, including Compass. I wish I had OB with Sury for some really good trade route income. Ah well...
Turn 294 - 1370 AD
Many peaceful "builder" turns later, I get a cool event:
Now, for "free" I get +1 to the plot. I think it's worth 136 gold for the shot at +3 health...and a free scientist! *crosses fingers*
I don't think I got the super-bonus.
But I did pop Iron 1N of Glittering Pigs!!!!
The extra 2H in that plot is going to allow me to switch from mines to windmills on the other hills immediately. That city needs a food boost, so that's great. (Plus the commerce too.)
Turn 300 - 1400 AD
Liz hits the seas:
I might be able to flip this city -- but I need to fill up my islands quickly before they are stolen.
Turn 306 - 1430 AD
I meet Frederick of Germany, who's so backwards as to not have Calendar!
He's the founder of Confuscionism and obviously isolated somewhere.
Turn 308 - 1440 AD
The long awaited switch to Christianity has finally occurred in the Holy Roman Empire. I don't want to flip religions yet... I'm not his neighbour. Monty is a mutual neighbour between us. I'm hoping that those two civs go after each other and leave me alone.
Right now, Monty is FRIENDLY with us at +12, meaning he won't declare war, according to my research. On the other hand, he's FURIOUS with Charly (-7). Charly is +3 with us and -3 with Monty.
I will convert the moment Charly asks me too, but until then I'll be quite pleased that Monty won't come my way...
*crosses fingers* DoW on Charly, DoW on Charly...
Actually, Monty has "too much on his hands" right now. That's either very good news, or very bad.
Next turn, Sury demands Optics. Yeah, that's fine -- I really don't want a defensive war right now...
Turn 313 - 1465 AD
Printing Press comes in. I trade it around for a few techs and big pots of gold.
I didn't realize it until now (MUST PAY MORE ATTENTION), but no one even has Education to date (but Gunpowder sure is getting around). Liberalism is looking like a real possibility all of a sudden. I should have pursued it sooner after all.
I can run a 90% research rate right now for about 20 turns thanks to money raised from the printing press. Education is due in 10...
A GS comes in. He can bulb about 2/3 the cost of Education.
Let's look at our status:
No one else has education yet.
Hey wait...Am I really basically in a tech-lead situation here?
How the HELL did that happen?
Hm...lemme check something.
Yup, wow. The AI has nothing to offer me save Divine Right (which they won't trade, and I don't want.)
(Everyone but Monty has the Printing Press now -- I think 2 had it when I discovered it, so I'm not giving up a democracy-line monopoly.)
Now, if I read this chart correctly, the GS will try to bulb Chemistry if I finish researching Education on my own.
So either I DON'T bulb him, and hope I win.
Or I DO bulb him, potentially without reason.
Okay, more checking.
Okay, let's see. No one has Education. Sury and Monty (who have similar GNPs as me) are missing philosophy, as is Stalin. Charlie (who I don't have charts for) doesn't even have paper yet.
That leaves Liz, Fred, and Kublai as the only people in the same position as me. Liz is behind me in GNP. Fred and Kublai are unknowns...
My gut tells me that we'll win. That I should settle the scientist in The Hague for long-term beaker benefits. Hm...how many beakers is he going to make? 6 base. At least doubled to 12 by buildings. That requires a 200 turn investment for a return. It's more than doubled with OU. And more than a base of 6 if I use Representation at some point. Still...100 turns for a payoff?
Screw it...I can't lose Liberalism at this point -- and it's not like the beakers are wasted even if we would have won without it.
2 turns left for Education to complete.
Turn 317 - 1485 AD
No one else has Education. I'm 7 turns from Liberalism at 100% research (-117/Turn!! I have 1634 banked though.)
Turn 319 - 1495 AD
Monty wants me to go to war with Charlie.
Listen, dude, I'd love nothing more than to knock Charlie down a peg and to gain your permanent love and affection through super lotsa ++++. But I can't do that.
He's got at LEAST Grenadiers. My longbows can't put up with that. But, don't let me stop YOU from declaring on him while I cower back here.
...
It didn't. Monty DoW on Charlie (and Liz).
Anyone have popcorn?
quill18
Warlord
Yeah, once again I let myself be intimidated by the Emperor-level AI and wasn't confident.
I've never looked up the bulbing paths before (I did so a moment ago, before I read your post). I think I need a more graphical chart than the one I found, but this was definitely another thing to add to my "things learned" column.
Now, I'm so far ahead in tech (no one has education and I've sunk a few turns into Lib) that I'm certain I've got it, and might even be able to maneuver in such a way as to snag a more expensive tech...but I think that Astronomy will be the strongest move anyway. Less trickiness involved. I can use it to buff my economy simply via the trade route buff, and I can easily for Chemistry to get a jump start towards Steam Power (Charlie will give me Chem for Edu/Music right now -- I think I'll make that trade when I have 1 turn left on Lib).
And if I get Astro from Lib, I can settle more islands. I know, I know -- home continent cities need to go up. I agree. They will. But I don't think the overseas maintenance will be THAT bad. The overseas trade route income (plus coast+financial) will be considerable.
quill18
Warlord
quill18
Warlord
Hey wait...don't the Dikes require a river position, just like Levees? So only Utrecht, The Hague, and Olmec can build 'em. There's a total of 4 workable water tiles between them...
So much for taking advantage of the UB... They may as well just be levees. Not that Levees are BAD, but yeesh...
Hackapell
Rhetorician
Nope, Dikes work as long as your city is on water. this includes lakes, ocean and rivers, making it FAR more flexible than standard levees.
quill18
Warlord
So they really ARE Moai Statues, then? Wow. (Actually better, since they are levies too, and cheaper.)
Thanks! I wish the Civilopedia had this info...
Oh, and speaking of which...I still haven't built the statues. Feedback welcome.
quill18
Warlord
Can I get a sanity check on building the National Epic in Amsterdam? (Yes, have NOT had the chance to build it yet...)
While it's a beast for production, it's clearly the best GP farm we've got.
While it's a beast for production, it's clearly the best GP farm we've got.
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
Yeah not sure if a chart exists but the best I have found for this is a component of the BUG mod - it shows on the tech tree (F6) view what each type of GP will bulb currently and after your research all the techs you have selected. I find this SUPER helpful.
BUG is great actually (e.g. can set reminders for yourself in x turns, includes civalerts which tells of pending city growth, unhappiness, new techs to trade etc)
Wow am amazed you have a tech lead given your GNP at 1250 AD = how did you do it? Was it cos the AI has been at war and building lots of units?
Bleys
Deity
Man I cant wait til I get BTS (its just not worth spending 80 bucks on right now, argh), so I can run a game like this myself. I am not going to bore the folks here with Vanilla games, though.
I cannot beat Emp with any consistancy whatsoever. So much seems like luck. The games I have equalized with I got outstanding starts and great hut-pops. But if I only get cash or something from huts, I seem to lag far behind. In my most recent attempt, Liz with a 5 floodplains + rice + corn start, decided to play it as pure CE as I could, even found some Stone (in a horrid spot), but I only got 2 huts, neither gave me a tech, was 5+ turns late for every important wonder, and that just kept me behind. Of course, the fact that I had no copper and Monty as a neighbor didnt help. Vanilla's tendency of having civs drop cities in crappy spots in the middle of your territory didnt help either. Thats one big reason I want the expansions. Why cant they patch that crap out of the vanilla? Its very lame.
I cannot beat Emp with any consistancy whatsoever. So much seems like luck. The games I have equalized with I got outstanding starts and great hut-pops. But if I only get cash or something from huts, I seem to lag far behind. In my most recent attempt, Liz with a 5 floodplains + rice + corn start, decided to play it as pure CE as I could, even found some Stone (in a horrid spot), but I only got 2 huts, neither gave me a tech, was 5+ turns late for every important wonder, and that just kept me behind. Of course, the fact that I had no copper and Monty as a neighbor didnt help. Vanilla's tendency of having civs drop cities in crappy spots in the middle of your territory didnt help either. Thats one big reason I want the expansions. Why cant they patch that crap out of the vanilla? Its very lame.
