Leftism in Academia

[Bozo Erectus]

The only problem I have with the Leftism in Academia is that too often its more like Stalinism. Anyone who strays from the partyline in any way is villified and personally attacked, before finally being silenced.

 

[Azash]

It would seem an ability to not stick to conventions is helpful in academia.

 

[eyrei]

The professors where I went to college were mostly very liberal, but they were also teaching at a Quaker school, and intolerance is not tolerated in that environment. One of my best professors was a conservative ex-CIA agent, and he was the one talking about the comparisons between the fall of Roman empire and the current situation of the US. I'll have to try to find my notes and figure out how much he accurately has predicted since that was in 1997...

 

[Phlegmak]

This notion that university teachers are mostly liberal is a nonissue. I don't care at all about their politics unless they have huge posters of Chairman Mao or Lenin in their offices, or if they preach Communism in class.

 

[pboily]

I'm not sure what you're saying/asking here.

If I understand you correctly, I think you're a bit off here, because I don't think social science courses are siphoned off into different ideologies---it's supposed to be objective social science (keyword: science), after all. Social scientists have their expertise divided into different topics, not by viewpoints. The key is that when, say, an economics professor teaches his class about the merits (or lack of merits) of supply-side economics, he might be blinded by his own personal political views. When you say "random professors," this randomness is irrelevant if they all have roughly the same viewpoint.

Sorry, I meant, suppose you take a course like "Introduction to political thought that has shaped the 20th century" (or something like that).

You'll have to talk about capitalism and communism (amongst others). Would a "liberal" professor then refuse to teach that capitalism was a force that shaped the 20th Century? Maybe this is not the way it is done at all and even at the introductory level, the "liberal prof" needs to diss free markets whenever he gets the chance...

At any rate, in the introductory levels, where one is mostly fed facts and figures, it would seem to me that the political leaning of a prof can't play that much of a role. It colors the teaching, certainly, but as you've said, it doesn't do much to change a student's politics...

It probably sounds naive, but I've had next to zero contact (as a student or as a prof) with folks in field outside of mathematics.

 

[newfangle]

Granted, the analyst-algebrist divide isn't anything like the liberal-conservative tug-of-war

You can take that wretched neo-algebraist doctrine elsewhere.

 

[pboily]

Do you mean algebraist in the US sense or the European sense?

 

[Paradigne]

Well you CAN get a degree in Liberal Arts.

 

[pboily]

I know you're joking, but there was a fellow (here, on CFC) who thought a while ago that a liberal art degree was a Liberal art degree.

 

[Phlegmak]

I know you're joking, but there was a fellow (here, on CFC) who thought a while ago that a liberal art degree was a Liberal art degree.

Red Stranger.

 

[newfangle]

Do you mean algebraist in the US sense or the European sense?

Sorry, I should have specified the 'big A' Algebraist. I guess that's the US version.

 

[downtown]

I think its worth pointing out that many/most professors did something else before they became professors (acedemia doesnt pay all that well)...so the idea that "they arent in the real world" doesnt hold all that much water. Most of my teachers worked for the goverment (and a few still do, in the state department). My mother's teachers were all educational administrators, or worked for the national department of education. My dad's were artists. etc etc

 

[WillJ]

Could it be because academics are left alone in liberal societies and persecuted in totalitarian societies?

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Interesting, but I think that's going too far. I don't think mainstream conservative ideology has any more potential to turn into fascist totalitarianism than mainstream liberal ideology has the potential to turn into communist totalitarianism.

Well, I certainly saw through my friend (a former student working on his phd) a very politicized math department in Mississippi (you had a situation where the department supported all 3 big branches of mathematics... funding and direction fights... and then affirmative action policy and legislation determining admissions and very favorable preferential treatment to certain groups).

There you're talking about "politics" as in "Did you HEAR what Dr. Jones said?!" not "President Bush is a crackhead," right?

Strangely, going through a liberal arts degree in History, I really couldn't tell you my professors political leanings. They were all fairly moderate (I think I only saw a professor get into a politics fight with a student once). Now, some of the nonsense I saw as an outsider in some of the other departments was silly with infighting and political bickering.

Really, if anything, people are just as malicious and demeaning to one another in tenured academia as they are on the corporate ladder. Some people know how to get along with others and some need to go play with their dolly far far away.

I'm sure you're right about the malice thing.

It goes to the very heart of what it means to be conservative or liberal. And, by that, I mean in the most apolitical of senses.

Academics are, by nature, interested in progress, expanding knowledge, advancing intellect, etc... This is inherently at odds with conservatism.

Academics are more liberal for the same reason that bankers are more conservative. And that's the way it should be.

That said, most teachers I've come across can separate liberalism from Liberalism. Both the colleges I attended were "Liberal Arts" colleges, but the professors I interacted with were ALL OVER THE PLACE politically.

edit: 1 typo, 1 improved adjective

Furthermore...

As someone who teaches at the JC level, part-time, I can also tell you that, overwhelmingly, the people (teachers) I interact with are apolitical in regards to bringing it into the classroom. I think you'd be hardpressed to guess their political persuasion based on how and what they teach.

In other words, they are professional. What sucks is that for every 99 professionals, there's 1 idiot. And that 1 idiot is more than enough for the Rush Limbaugh's of the world to paint a completely distorted picture.

I agree with your apolitical liberalism idea (there's a reason they're called the liberal arts, after all). As for actual politics, well it's good to hear about them being professional, although them being all over the place certainly seems to go against the norm.

My pesonal theory has been for quite some time that academics, for obvious reasons specially those in the social sciences, like to think that they can shape society according to their grand vision. They publish books on it, give lectures, become travelling professors at Sorbonne and whatnot. In their view it all works perfectly, but most with a real world experience would feel doubtful about their ideas to the say the least.

Although can't conservatives have grand visions too?

This notion that university teachers are mostly liberal is a nonissue. I don't care at all about their politics unless they have huge posters of Chairman Mao or Lenin in their offices, or if they preach Communism in class.

I don't think that's unheard of.

Sorry, I meant, suppose you take a course like "Introduction to political thought that has shaped the 20th century" (or something like that).

You'll have to talk about capitalism and communism (amongst others). Would a "liberal" professor then refuse to teach that capitalism was a force that shaped the 20th Century? Maybe this is not the way it is done at all and even at the introductory level, the "liberal prof" needs to diss free markets whenever he gets the chance...

At any rate, in the introductory levels, where one is mostly fed facts and figures, it would seem to me that the political leaning of a prof can't play that much of a role. It colors the teaching, certainly, but as you've said, it doesn't do much to change a student's politics...

It probably sounds naive, but I've had next to zero contact (as a student or as a prof) with folks in field outside of mathematics.

Your guess is as good as mine, but yeah, I'd think that it's less of an issue in intro courses.

After all, most intro courses are rather crappy surveys of all sorts of knowledge, all covered rather superficially, full of memorization and not much discussion ... not really a breeding ground for political ideology.

I think its worth pointing out that many/most professors did something else before they became professors (acedemia doesnt pay all that well)...so the idea that "they arent in the real world" doesnt hold all that much water. Most of my teachers worked for the goverment (and a few still do, in the state department). My mother's teachers were all educational administrators, or worked for the national department of education. My dad's were artists. etc etc

Are you sure that's the norm? Perhaps your teachers working in government is because you go to American University? I know almost all professors will do some work outside of academia (consulting, etc.), but I didn't think it'd be enough to fully bring them into the "real world."

 

[Tulkas12]

I tend to veiw this the other way around. Conservatives are't generally interested in teaching. Its not their bag. They ten to be more entrepenuerial then that. They go to the private secter as the risk/rward factor there is much greater. This goes ino the whole idea that I think modern liberalism is basically paternalism, in which I veis that lefties just wnat someone to take care of them.


Shane I thnk the confusion came from ( I know this bothers me too) the idea that conservatives are backwards. Conservatives lead the way in innovation as often as not I'm sure. Progressive is probably the biggest misuse of a word that I know of, and it will continue so I've gotten used to it.

 

[pboily]

"Conservative risk taker" is a wacky, wacky oxymoron. I dig what you are saying, it just looks funny, is all.

Of course, the world is a wacky, wacky place.

 

[betazed]

On a similar note and perhaps as a generalization of this study i saw somewhere (sorry no link as i cannot remember where - but IIRC in this forum and in a post by selecus nicator) that the % of people who are democrats (and hence more likely to be liberal) shows a inverse bell curve when measured against education.

so it is not just college professors who show this curious statistic, but the whole population too shows the same statistic.

while it is obvious why the lower end of the education scale would be democratic/liberal (I am using the term interchangeably - possibly incorrectly so), it is not at all obvious (though I can think of several pointers) why the other end of the spectrum is democratic/liberal.

 

[ainwood]

"Conservative risk taker" is a wacky, wacky oxymoron. I dig what you are saying, it just looks funny, is all.

Maybe. But "conservative" is not really a properly fitting label for right wing or capitalist views.

 

[downtown]

Are you sure that's the norm? Perhaps your teachers working in government is because you go to American University? I know almost all professors will do some work outside of academia (consulting, etc.), but I didn't think it'd be enough to fully bring them into the "real world."

I think it varies by field. For the fields where bias would matter the most (i.e, political sciences), I think it is the norm to have some practical application for your knowledge. Of all the schools I applied to, only BYU's poly sci department was lacking in professional experience.

Acedemia doesn't pay a whole lot. When you're young, being a professor isnt something that comes to mind, at least when you're studying politics. I think the same thing goes for law. You at least shoot for the big bucks. The halls of acedemia are filled with failed politicians

Plus, I dont think we should make too much of this stat. Clearly, professors arent making their students all that more liberal...or else we'd see that in elections. Any educator worth his pay ought to be able to explain the concepts of the subject without injecting bias, and when he deicdes to offer up his own opinion (which I think professors should do), that he makes a clear distinction between his thoughts and the text.

The only way this becomes a problem is if Professors grade their conservative minded students in a more harsh manner. Studies have shown (I posted one last year from the University of Nevada, and American has done a similar study that I participated in, and reached the same conclusion) that this is not the case. Conservatives do just as well as Liberals.

 

[luiz]

Most of my teachers worked for the goverment (and a few still do, in the state department).

Working for the government is not real world either. You can't get fired, you have full retirement, you have huge paternity/maternity leaves, you can be lazy and nothing happens, etc etc etc.

 

[downtown]

Working for the government is not real world either. You can't get fired, you have full retirement, you have huge paternity/maternity leaves, you can be lazy and nothing happens, etc etc etc.

This totally dpends on what you do in the goverment, and which level (local, state, federal), you work for. Some of the federal jobs are very very demanding...and if you're lazy in local goverment, its easier for somebody to spot you and throw you out