Lenin

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I think his NEP was the best chance Communism, or something reaonably close to it, had of working in the real world. While it was in a way an authoritarian version of today's welfare state, it still had that capitalist feel that distinguishes it from a more tre 'Communism." i still think it was better than what Communism became later in the century, and even now.

 

[amadeus]

Better than Stalin? Sure.

Lenin set up the system that allowed Stalin to rise to power. I don't think either one is better or worse; they're equally bad, but in different ways.

 

[Pyrite]

He's revolution hijacking scumbag. Nothing about Lenin was the least bit revolutionary in practice.

 

[luiz]

Lenin set up the system that allowed Stalin to rise to power. I don't think either one is better or worse; they're equally bad, but in different ways.

Life under Lenin would be more tolerable than under Stalin, generally speaking. In that sense Lenin was better, or rather "less bad".

 

[Leha]

For no better options I voted Lenin was no better than later communists.

People, you are SOOOOO misguided about Lenin - it is amusing
I remember when I was student of certain USSR university we had discipline called " History of Marxism-Leninism" (very interesting study, BTW )
We were to conspect works of Lenin and Marx/Engels, it was mandatory.
I encourage those who believe Lenin was good to read his work "Dictature of the Proletariat" (Or something like this).

EDIT: Found it, it is called "The Dictatorship of the Proletariat"

Edit of the edit:Oh, and I'm positive Lenin was WAAYYY smarter than Stalin, and that made him more dangerous.

Edit of the edit of the edit: And he didn't mean to leave NEP forever. NO WAY . He understood that financially Soviet Russian Federation is in a deep hole and released screws a little. He was smart, I don't deny this.

 

[Leha]

Life under Lenin would be more tolerable than under Stalin, generally speaking. In that sense Lenin was better, or rather "less bad".

Oh, but we had no chance to chek it, had we?
There are serious suspicions that one tyrant was just "quicker" and "took care of" the other tyrant.

 

[Eli]

In absolute terms he sucked. You cant force communism on a country and not suck in my book.

Relatively to other commies, he was one of the best. Most other communist leaders were exposed to the communist idea as a ready product and went on to implement it. They were not smart enough to comprehend the communist idea the way Marx and Lenin understood it. Most of them being mainly men of action, not men of the book. As a result, they treated what they couldnt really understand as a holy dogma.
And so, being merely adherents, when faced with a crisis or a theoretical impossibility which nevertheless happened, they chose more and more radical communist policies.


Lenin, on the other hand, actually understood and even contributed significantly to communist ideas. A deep understanding of something allows any smart man to see it's flaws, it's weaker points, it's uncertainties. As a result, at times of crisis Lenin was more flexible and less dogmatic. Due to that, he was also less willing to choose extreme courses of action.

 

[plarq]

For no better options I voted Lenin was no better than later communists.

People, you are SOOOOO misguided about Lenin - it is amusing
I remember when I was student of certain USSR university we had discipline called " History of Marxism-Leninism" (very interesting study, BTW )
We were to conspect works of Lenin and Marx/Engels, it was mandatory.
I encourage those who believe Lenin was good to read his work "Dictature of the Proletariat" (Or something like this).

EDIT: Found it, it is called "The Dictatorship of the Proletariat"

Edit of the edit:Oh, and I'm positive Lenin was WAAYYY smarter than Stalin, and that made him more dangerous.

Edit of the edit of the edit: And he didn't mean to leave NEP forever. NO WAY . He understood that financially Soviet Russian Federation is in a deep hole and released screws a little. He was smart, I don't deny this.

Ha! Similar lessons are studied in P.R.China, it's also mandatory. IMO, Lenin was just a bit better than Hitler and other fascists, since he denounced racism and militaristic nationalism. Also his work perfectly matches Commie Totalitarian state.

 

[Leha]

Ha! Similar lessons are studied in P.R.China, it's also mandatory. IMO, Lenin was just a bit better than Hitler and other fascists, since he denounced racism and militaristic nationalism. Also his work perfectly matches Commie Totalitarian state.

You study it too? Poor thing

 

[nonconformist]

There's not my opinion.

Lenin put in place the foundations for Stalin's rule.
However, he was a competant, and intelligent leader, despite the Red Terror, and such ruthless crimes.
There is a definite line to be drawn at 1928, 1956 and such.

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

IMO, having Lenin on your T-shirt is no better than having Stalin or Hitler. For some reason most people would acknowledge that Stalin was a madman, but quite a few would say that Lenin actually was OK when in reality he was just as bad.

 

[plarq]

You study it too? Poor thing

Don't laugh at me while you're free and I'm not.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

IMO, having Lenin on your T-shirt is no better than having Stalin or Hitler. For some reason most people would acknowledge that Stalin was a madman, but quite a few would say that Lenin actually was OK when in reality he was just as bad.

Why so?

You'd have to have very little regard for life to consider Lenin's and Stalin's crimes even remotely comparable. Me and Luiz agree on very little, least of all Lenin, but on Stalin I think a sizeable majority of the world can agree on something like the following:

Better than Stalin? Sure. But than again with the exception of Pol Pot and perhaps Hitler and Mao, who isn't?

Stalin, along with the aforementioned genocidal tyrants, is in a league of his own. What did Lenin ever do to even come close to them?

 

[Che Guava]

Greatest soviet leader ever...by default...and with the possible exception of Gorbachev...

 

[BCLG100]

Lenin was ok but compared to the Tsars before him or Stalin afterwards it wasnt really that hard to look good.

 

[Winner]

Where is the option "he was a terrible, blood-thirsty monster, tyran, embodiment of pure evil"?

 

[ComradeDavo]

Lenin was 2 things

1)A terriable leader who made many mistakes and split the European/Russian left-wing into rival factions

2)A brutal tyrant who cared nothing for peoples lives

I've studied Lenin a fair bit for history lessons in the past and got round to reading his biography by Robery Service last eyar, as well as looking at sources on him from a wide range of viewpoints. I have concluded that whilst he certaianlly did have a huge impact he also effectively ruined any chance of left-wing co-operation in Russia and his policies had no cosideration for human costs, whilst his betryal at Kronstadt where so many 'real communsits' were slaughtered by Lenin and the Red Army just goes to show that it was more about him and his people gaining power rather than a real workign class revolution.

If Lenin had been more willing to co-operate with fellow European/Russian left-wing groups, given the first revolution a chance to work and develop a democracy in Russia and had actually developed empathy towards people rather than seeing them as statistics then perhaps we could have had a very different history.

 

[luiz]

Good points, Davo.
It is indeed noteworthy that Lenin persecuted the non-Bolveshevik elements of the russian left(Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries) more than the tzarist police.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Good points, Davo.
It is indeed noteworthy that Lenin persecuted the non-Bolveshevik elements of the russian left(Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries) more than the tzarist police.

Indeed, Lenin was very brutal in 'dealing' with political opposistion, so much so that I think he actually really harmed himself by driving away political allies. Had he been more willing to co-oprate and got more left-wing groups onside then it could have been possiable to maybe even help the German communsist take power there, when you think about revolutionairy strategy on a Europe wide scale it makes the best sense for the varying groups to co-oprate with each other. As it was the German revolution rather spectacuarly failed.

I would also add that alot of his writings with contradictory and reactionairy, and that I think that had the whites got some organised structure and co-opertaed more with each other the Reds would probably have lost the civil war, I mean when you look at it it really seems surprising that the Reds won. The defeat in Poland showed that the Red Army could be beaten rather spectucarly.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Just to comment on Lenin's 'popularity' today, I think that many people glorify him and try and make out that it was Stalin who messed up communism in Russia. No doubt this is partly due to the Soviets themselves glofiying Lenin after they ahd decided that Stalin wasn't exactly Mr niceman.

What people need to understand is that Lenin was responisable for the way that communism came out in Russia, it wa she who really championed the idea of a small group of leaders taking control of the revolution, rather than the Marxist ideal of the workers on mass taking power.

Many people say 'well he was better than the Tsar' - I think people are missing the point here. The Tsar was gone, in prison somehwere when the Bolsheviks took power. They overthrew a democtaric government, the 'provisional government', which had multi-partys and organsied elections. It was by no means perfect, but it was never really given the chance to develop.