Lets discuss: Homophobia

[useless]

Why is it still seen to be socially acceptable to be homophobic?

Be it through religion;

All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are -- were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans - preacher John Hagee

Or politicians using homophobic remarks and using homophobic views to win votes:

?Normalization (of gayness) through desensitization. Very effective way to do this with a bunch of second graders, is take a picture of ?The Lion King? for instance, and a teacher might say, ?Do you know that the music for this movie was written by a gay man?? The message is: I?m better at what I do, because I?m gay.? ? Senator Michele Bachmann, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004

The "Don't say Gay bill is approved"

...comMr Campfield claims his bill is neutral and is not anti-gay... According to On Top magazine, he compared homosexuality to bestiality during an interview in 2009... Mr Campfield also claimed that homosexuality was a "learned behaviour"... The Tennessee Equality Project said the bill could lead to more gay teen suicides.

Let's not forget DOMA, DADT and Prop 8, which specifically target Gay people.

So i ask; Why is homophobia still seen as being socially acceptable?

 

[Lambert Simnel]

For the most part, it is no longer seen as socially acceptable to be homophobic in Western Europe.

The prevalence of such views in the US rather bemuses me, if I'm honest. I would have thought a more natural corollary from believing strongly in freedom would be to accept that whatever consenting adults do is OK, and no business of others to legislate against, condemn, or get involved with to any level.

 

[LucyDuke]

1. It's not. There are places where disparaging gays is as acceptable as disparaging women or Mormons.

2. The original vampire is still alive. Prejudices take root in youth and are harder to shake with age. Old people are more prejudiced than young people, and the only way for that to end, in most cases, is for them to die. First, what we're seeing now, they're becoming irrelevant. Later they'll die and we won't even have to defend silly old grandpa, that bigot.

3. You don't know how many gay people you know. Some people are still hush-hush about it. It seems harmless to crack a gay joke, 'cause hey, we're all straight here, right? Queers need to speak up. Be visible. Shame haters. People are usually pretty embarrassed when they realize what jerks they've been.

Oh, and of course...

4. It's fine, the magic book backs it up.

 

[classical_hero]

Homophobia then is simply a meaningless word if you are saying the homosexuality is wrong. There is a big difference between that and being afraid of Homosexuality. But I do like the way we are goin with this, since it means Christians are going to have to take a stand on this issue. are they gong to be more worried about what God says, or what man says. It is nice to see that Christianity is in the headlights of the world again, right were it belongs.

 

[useless]

1. It's not. There are places where disparaging gays is as acceptable as disparaging women or Mormons.

2. The original vampire is still alive. Prejudices take root in youth and are harder to shake with age. Old people are more prejudiced than young people, and the only way for that to end, in most cases, is for them to die. First, what we're seeing now, they're becoming irrelevant. Later they'll die and we won't even have to defend silly old grandpa, that bigot.

3. You don't know how many gay people you know. Some people are still hush-hush about it. It seems harmless to crack a gay joke, 'cause hey, we're all straight here, right? Queers need to speak up. Be visible. Shame haters. People are usually pretty embarrassed when they realize what jerks they've been.

Oh, and of course...

4. It's fine, the magic book backs it up.

I understand and accept your points, Lucy.

1. And the opposite, using the "F" word to describe homosexuals is acceptable, preventing them from serving in the military is still backed by many Lucy, especially on the right.

2. Agreed, I am eagerly waiting the eventual demise of the baby-boomers, with their racist, homophobic and generally bigoted rhetoric.

Moderator Action: As mentioned in a later infraction in this thread, please be careful as to how you throw around the words "bigot and racist"

3. So true, there's still this belief that "oh the homos are asking for it" by being openly gay. I believe those that subscribe to the belief that homosexuality is a choice, is attempting to justify their homophobic beliefs, as they can simply trot out "Well, they chose it! Maybe if they stopped being gay...". People need to be shamed, when they use racist homophobic slurs, the F word is not acceptabe.

4. Alas, there can be no logic when such a book is involved.

 

[civ_king]

congratulations on quoting idiots and "morans"

next?

Moderator Action: This adds nothing to the discussion, and is just trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[useless]

Homophobia then is simply a meaningless word if you are saying the homosexuality is wrong. There is a big difference between that and being afraid of Homosexuality. But I do like the way we are goin with this, since it means Christians are going to have to take a stand on this issue. are they gong to be more worried about what God says, or what man says. It is nice to see that Christianity is in the headlights of the world again, right were it belongs.

When people trot out the lie that "teaching homosexuality in schools" will some how turn children gay, they are relying on fear and hate, to spread their bigoted message.

 

[useless]

congratulations on quoting idiots and "morans"

next?

Congratulations on ignoring my point, about how it's seen as being acceptable in society to discriminate and propogate vicious lies and falsehoods about that group.

These people are taken seriously by others, that is what is so dangerous and worrying here.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

I work in a car dealership so amongst the sales people , mechanics , finance guys , managers etc you get a reasonably broad spectrum of society.

Socially acceptable to continually disparage gay people ? Probably not . At some point you'll get told to pull your head in .

Then why , in a workforce of 200 people is only 1 guy and no girls openly gay ? ( and that guy has to put up with a fair bit of , possibly well intentioned , pretty off colour humor )

There is still a weird undercurrent of "we shouldn't be homophobic , but geez I wouldn't want to be the gay guy."

I have made a point of never chipping in when people light heartedly make fun of him to his face , and he accepts it with humor . But he has pointed out to me that he is very aware of the fact I never join in . I say this not to sound like the good guy , but to point out that regardless of how well he takes it , I think it's mostly front , and maybe the joking is out of order.

 

[Jehoshua]

Thing is too many people who concur that homosexual acts are immoral mislay sentiment towards the sin, and apply it towards the sinner.

They thus (in particular certain fundamentalist protestant denominations) act in a way most devoid of charity and concern towards those with the inclination to homosexual acts in a way contrary to christian morality. One must love the sinner and respect the human dignity the sinner posesses in equal measure to ones own, yet he must also despise the sin and with charity without malice guide the one with the inclination towards the sin into a proper dispensation to the sin and along the path of christian perfection in chastity and firm discipline in following the commandments of Christ. This at least is how an orthodox Christian should respond to one of homosexual inclination.

Christians must realise that they themselves are sinners and that it is not the persons themselves that are evil but the sin and thus one should never fall into the grave error of unjust persecution against the homosexually inclined such as we see in several countries where homosexuals face the death penalty. These things are utterly condemned by the Church.

However neither should they ever accept the morality of homosexual acts. These are to be utterly condemned as sinful in the same manner as fornication, adultery and other sins of this nature are condemned.

 

[RedRalph]

'Light-hearted' homophobic jokes and so on are still acceptable, seriously hating people for being gay would make you a pariah.

 

[useless]

Thing is too many people who concur that homosexual acts are immoral mislay sentiment towards the sin, and apply it towards the sinner.

They thus (in particular certain fundamentalist protestant denominations) act in a way most devoid of charity and concern towards those with the inclination to homosexual acts in a way contrary to christian morality. One must love the sinner and respect the human dignity the sinner posesses in equal measure to ones own, yet he must also despise the sin and with charity without malice guide the one with the inclination towards the sin into a proper dispensation to the sin and along the path of christian perfection in chastity and firm discipline in following the commandments of Christ.

Christians must realise that they themselves are sinners and that it is not the persons themselves that are evil but the sin and thus one should never fall into the grave error of unjust persecution against the homosexually inclined such as we see in several countries where homosexuals face the death penalty. These things are utterly condemned by the Church.

However neither should they ever accept the morality of homosexual acts. These are to be utterly condemned as sinful in the same manner as fornication, adultery and other sins of this nature are condemned.

I don't believe in God, therefor I do not see such acts as Sinful (and therefore associated as being bad, along with the practitioner in the eyes of many).

RedRalph: Saying the F-word, or "that's so gay" in an negative context is pretty widespread, even by those that profess to be allies of the LGBT movement...

 

[holy king]

Homophobia then is simply a meaningless word if you are saying the homosexuality is wrong. There is a big difference between that and being afraid of Homosexuality. But I do like the way we are goin with this, since it means Christians are going to have to take a stand on this issue. are they gong to be more worried about what God says, or what man says. It is nice to see that Christianity is in the headlights of the world again, right were it belongs.

Xenophobia then is simply a meaningless word if you are saying that immigration is wrong. There is a big difference between that and being afraid of foreigners.


look, hatred always stems from fear.
when somebody says "i hate mosquitoes" he fears their freaking stings all over his body.
when somebody says "i hate eel pie", it's because he fears the taste of it. some people would even phrase that as "eel pie is just wrong". alternatively, you sometimes hear people ask "what's the freaking purpose of mosquitoes, they shouldnt even be in this world".

now, that kind of "rationalization" changes absolutely nothing about the underlying nature of their personal feelings.




also, something to think about in the end: you dont need to actually answer this, but ask yourself: do you ever masturbate to lesbian porn?

 

[Loppan Torkel]

When people trot out the lie that "teaching homosexuality in schools" will some how turn children gay, they are relying on fear and hate, to spread their bigoted message.

Is it bigoted or homophobic to believe or to teach out that a homosexual lifestyle is a sin according to religious texts, in your view?

 

[Jehoshua]

I don't believe in God, therefor I do not see such acts as Sinful (and therefore associated as being bad, along with the practitioner in the eyes of many).

However for a christian who adheres to the teachings of Christ he is not going to cast aside the teachings regarding homosexuality just because an atheist homosexual happens to disagree with them.

Thus the neccesity from the christian side to act with appropriate charity and in the understanding that is the sin not the sinner that is to be condemned.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

'Light-hearted' homophobic jokes and so on are still acceptable, seriously hating people for being gay would make you a pariah.

I think ANY joke is fair game as long as someone who might not be offended by it is present . I think the gay guy in question in my previous post though has to put up with a few too many "light hearted" jokes and is simply too nice a guy to openly bite back .

The fact that he has pointed out to me that he is conscious of me keeping my mouth shut proves it . But , when not in his company , I'm comfortable firing some very offensive stuff .

 

[useless]

Is it bigoted or homophobic to believe or to teach out that a homosexual lifestyle is a sin according to religious texts, in your view?

Want me to be brutally honest? Yes.

 

[holy king]

The fact that he has pointed out to me that he is conscious of me keeping my mouth shut proves it . But , when not in his company , I'm comfortable firing some very offensive stuff .

that's even worse than what your collegues are doing.
not for him, but for what it makes you.

 

[useless]

I think ANY joke is fair game as long as someone who might not be offended by it is present . I think the gay guy in question in my previous post though has to put up with a few too many "light hearted" jokes and is simply too nice a guy to openly bite back .

The fact that he has pointed out to me that he is conscious of me keeping my mouth shut proves it . But , when not in his company , I'm comfortable firing some very offensive stuff .

That is.. a very telling comment.

 

[Jehoshua]

Want me to be brutally honest? Yes.

I would call that a difference of opinion.

The problem is anyone when faced with a contrary opinion is going to go on the defensive or alternatively lash out against someone who says they're wrong. Thus in this case because certain religious groups condemn homosexual acts and thus is saying ones who supports such a lifestyle is wrong we have a mechanism within the homosexually inclined to lash out and proclaim the opposing viewpoint bigoted. One could argue using another example that the atheist is being bigotted for arguing against theistic religion. Or that the homosexual who supports homosexual unions is being bigoted against supporters of the definition of marriage as being between a man and a woman.

It is hardly bigotry if if such disagreements are met with the appropriate charity it is a difference of opinion. Furthermore I would add that if a homosexually inclined person defines his entire existence by his inclination to perform homosexual acts then that is a shallow and superficial understanding of his being to my account. His inclinations hardly define his entire person.