Let's Discuss Poland

[Seras]

So portuguese people don't exist? there basically spaniards with amother language?

no, they're CAUCASIANS, just like french,english, germans and yes, even poles.




also, it doesn't matter what country they represent...ultra-nationalists are a blight upon the face of the earth.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Sweden - slavic?

note the lack of knowledge of the Swedish peoples i meant Scandinavian

 

[Gaius Octavius]

no, they're CAUCASIANS, just like french,english, germans...

Finally, somebody got it right.

 

[Breunor]

Sweden? Name a time in history when Sweden herself (not all slavic peoples as one) was a world power, an empire, or a major economical factor on the planet. Not for Europe... not for Scandinavia, but for the whole planet. How about a colonial power? Ever? No? Don't site 2 or three measly colonies, give me large numbers of powerful colonies. How about Poland. Any? Come on, name one... still can't do it?

End this pointless thread that gives rise to nothing more than flamed posts and flamed emotions.

Oh, and put Mexico in the game. :|

Many people view Sweden as a world power in the Augustus Adolphus period, the early 17th century. This occurred because of Gustavus' changes to the army, which gave him the most efficient army in Europe. Indeed, Gustavus' reforms (to me) are the most important in changing 'Medieval' warfare to 'modern warfare' He had a professional military, and was the first to employ light artillery. he was a brilliant innovator.

At the beginning fo the 30 years' world, I would have put Sweden second in Europe (behind Spain). I have seen other writers put Sweden as first. Clearly, the Swedish entry into the war turned it from a Catholic romp to Protestant advantage. By the end of the 30 Years' War, ascendent France probably eclipsed Spain, which was on the descendent.

Sweden was also an important power for a lot of the 16th Century, when they basically formed, but clearly weren't yet as strong as Poland before Gustavus.

Sweden fall came in the Great Northern War; Creasey views Poltava (1709) as one of the 15 decisive battles of history (although I detest this book, it has a huge impact on people's view of history). But there is no doubt that with the Great Northern War, Russia emerged as a great power and Sweden had lost its great power status. Needless to say, Russia during the Peter period was destined to pass Sweden, but had Charles XII won Russia could have been impeded for some time.

So the Swede greatest period was pretty much the 17th century. They were still a fair power agfter that for some time, but by the 19th century they weren't a major political force. Their period of great power was largely built on political stability and a more efficient military, but their military reforms were copied and they just couldn't keep up with the larger populations and economies of Russia, England, France, etc. Significantly, Sweden defeated the Empire in a series of battles during the 30 Years' war; but the Empire could recover. At his greatest victory, Lutzen in 1632, the Empire was defeated, but Sweden's loss was greater, as their brilliant king lay dead on the field.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Thanks for the info. I didn't know all that! However, this is hardly enough to claim Imperial status in comparison to most of the other civs represented in the game, not to mention Europe is over-represented already. Almost a century of influential power in Europe does not contest to the power and influence displayed by the other European civs in the game. Besides, I imagine there are any number of other nations that could claim 80 years of superiority some time in their history.

It just does not warrant a place in Civ. Like i said before, many cultures, civs, and nations have rich histories, but that doesn't mean they merit a place in the game.

 

[hoopsnerd]

Finally, somebody got it right.

No, this is wrong, and more offensive than anything else in this thread because it is sincere. There is no such thing as "races" as far as humans are concerned. Asian/Caucasian/African/Inuit are not races, there is only one race: the human race. The whole concept of a sub-group of "race" has had no place in the scientific community for decades, and remains out despite the further exploration of the human genome. To quote science magazine: "Allelic frequencies vary between any selected human groups--to assume that those variations reflect 'racial categories' is unwarranted." "Race" as mentioned above is nothing but a social construct, and has no place in an unbiased discussion.

 

[cybrxkhan]

many civs can have a place if they were regional powers or "lesser" powers at one time or another. and this does not necessarily mean political power - it could also mean economical, cultural, or even its popularity in pop-culture.

poland, vietnam, austria, hittites, nubia, iroqouis, phoenicia, are all examples of this.

however, the problem with these is that there are too many choices to choose from. Firaxis is a bit conservative when choosing these.

 

[Evil Twin]

Whether Ethiopia is worthwhile or not to be included... the statement

"they are too stupid to feed themselves"

goes beyond all bounds of acceptability.

I realise his entire aim is to start fires - it's glaringly obvious from some of the other ignorant and prejudiced attacks he's made in other threads.... but why should they be permitted? It is a hate post and that's against the rules (and normal society too.... if he'd have said that in my presence, I would have been far less polite in reply). I don't care if he wants to ignore facts and state fiction, but attacking a people who have suffered so much for so many years is undeniably disgusting.

I think that it is perfectly "grown up" to expect people to not make such nasty slurs.... or to see such children punished.

I stand by what I said - they take international aid and squander it on machine guns to butcher each other with. Their leaders are all fools who should be deposed. But until that happens, Ethiopia is culturally dead which is why I find their mere presence in civ disturbing.
Call me racist all you like, it doesn't make it true. I'm simply stating facts. Do you think I wish harm on the Ethiopian people? Quite the opposite. But I wish they'd pull themselves together and stop their insipid territorial wars and useless dancing around fake "holy" artifacts.

As for your response in real life.. since you fit the general description of the Internet Tough Guy, I doubt you'd even respond at all.

 

[Arlborn]

I stand by what I said - they take international aid and squander it on machine guns to butcher each other with. Their leaders are all fools who should be deposed. But until that happens, Ethiopia is culturally dead which is why I find their mere presence in civ disturbing.
Call me racist all you like, it doesn't make it true. I'm simply stating facts. Do you think I wish harm on the Ethiopian people? Quite the opposite. But I wish they'd pull themselves together and stop their insipid territorial wars and useless dancing around fake "holy" artifacts.

As for your response in real life.. since you fit the general description of the Internet Tough Guy, I doubt you'd even respond at all.

Aztecs, Mayas and Incas....See them now?
How good is Rome today?

Nothing personal, but we SHOULDN'T base the inclusion in the present only.

 

[Evil Twin]

Aztecs, Mayas and Incas....See them now?
How good is Rome today?

Nothing personal, but we SHOULDN'T base the inclusion in the present only.

Well, the present is why their inclusion offends me.
Their past lack of any interesting accomplishments is what makes their inclusion boring, and politically correct.

 

[Arlborn]

Well, the present is why their inclusion offends me.
Their past lack of any interesting accomplishments is what makes their inclusion boring, and politically correct.

Valid argument, but falls in personal opinion after all.

 

[Photi]

this thread is two days old and has TWELVE pages. Go Poland!

 

[Breunor]

many civs can have a place if they were regional powers or "lesser" powers at one time or another. and this does not necessarily mean political power - it could also mean economical, cultural, or even its popularity in pop-culture.

poland, vietnam, austria, hittites, nubia, iroqouis, phoenicia, are all examples of this.

however, the problem with these is that there are too many choices to choose from. Firaxis is a bit conservative when choosing these.

And this applies to a half of the Civ's in the game now. At the end of the day, its subjective. For instance, my own subjective view would put Ethiopia above a lot of the Civ's in the game (and NOT for political correctness!) but I don't think there were any terrible picks, and the Firaxis team just made a choice. Sometimes, they choose on 'fame' apparently (for instance, Babylon and Sumeria over, say Assyria) but this choice is reasonable as a game.


Breunor

 

[Jperkinson]

In Continuum, I read this statement as the following dialog:

3) The Ethiopian highlands has very fertile soil that gives birth to the Nile. The dirt is also rich in natural resources including gold.

To which the reply:

Somebody ought to tell this to the Ethiopians then. Maybe they'd stop polluting my TV with charity appeals because they're too damn stupid to feed themselves.
Moderator Action: Ease up. Trollish behavior is not acceptable around here.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I read this statement as:
Somebody ought to tell this to the Ethiopians then. Because if that is true, then Maybe they'd stop polluting my TV with charity appeals because they're Apparently too damn stupid to feed themselves.

I don't find this offensive... A blunt point, but not offensive....

The truth is that this 'fertile' land is not developed well enough to support the existing population... The foreign aid that has been delivered in the past does nothing but artificially support more people, resulting in perpetual starvation...

furthermore, Evil Twin is right that the region is vexed with warlords and horrible leadership, preventing proper agriculture from being developed.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

All ancient civilizations have their ups and downs. When a civilization is over 2000 years old, several decades of incompetent warlords do not diminish its overall importance.

However, when a civilization is just a couple of centuries years old, its citizens tend to overvalue contemporary times. Ethiopia, Khmer, Mali have it tough right now. So? It's not the present that merits their inclusion in CIV.

 

[Evil Twin]

You know, I am blunt. And maybe that leads to misunderstandings, but that's how I am. Perhaps the result of being brought up in an era of political correctness.

 

[cybrxkhan]

we're supposed to be discussing Poland...


threads NOT on Poland turn into threads on Poland...

threads ON Poland turn into threads NOT on POland...

is this a new CFC law of nature that i must write up???

 

[Evil Twin]

we're supposed to be discussing Poland...


threads NOT on Poland turn into threads on Poland...

threads ON Poland turn into threads NOT on POland...

is this a new CFC law of nature that i must write up???

Oh I wouldn't call it new..

 

[hoopsnerd]

You know, I am blunt. And maybe that leads to misunderstandings, but that's how I am. Perhaps the result of being brought up in an era of political correctness.

Political correctness sickens me, it's like a fascist movement. What's next, a dress code?

 

[Catharsis]

we're supposed to be discussing Poland...


threads NOT on Poland turn into threads on Poland...

threads ON Poland turn into threads NOT on POland...

is this a new CFC law of nature that i must write up???

I think you need to expand your Biggles-Pho-Kielbasa Law. Certainly if someone makes an ignorant statement, or a statement ignorant in the view of others, then the length of a thread is increased. But if the thread is such that ignorance is the norm, then the Ignorance Factor of the thread will increase to a point at which it is completely saturated and cannot increase further. At that point, due to a quantum irregularity, the thread must bifurcate, one part of the thread becoming non-ignorant but ignored, while the other goes off on a tangent and starts building up that Ignorance Factor all over again, but on a different subject.

This is why a thread devoted to Poland will not work. QED.