Let's Discuss Poland

[Tortilla Boy]

Alright:

10 Reasons Why Poland Shouldn't Be In Civ

1. If they get put in, TheLastOne36 will gloat.
2-10. Aren't important really, 1 is bad enough.

Okay, okay... let's restrain ourselves to that Las Vegas civ proposition. I liked the hookers UU idea. Not that I've changed my mind, and started to think that this stuff of yours around Cambridge is of any greater importance, been there this summer, nothing but plushie bears and shops with unjustifiable prices. j/k

 

[Tortilla Boy]

Winged Hussars look interesting. c'mon, who else has horses with wings?

Actually, Mongols raiding Europe had. We took the idea from them, cause thought it's neat and making lots of noise when you are in gallop

 

[cybrxkhan]

^hmm... never recalled that when i read about the Khans...

 

[Fugl]

Just thought id comment on some of the US-hype, while it looks powerfull right now, its more interesting what lies ahead of us imo.

As i see it, US became a major power after ww1, along with France, England, Russia.
Ww2 left all of Europe as the big loser incl the `winners`France+England, back was just the two now superpowers US and Russia (soviet), untill around 90` Soviets fast decline starts openly, warzaw-pact dies fast, while Nato still tries to find excuses for continuing, despite no obvious threats can be seen.

So now in 07` whos gonna be the new kids on the block? Clearly China will surpass US in economy very soon and already does by huge margin in manpower ,real question is when and if they choose to challenge US`s military also.

India looks strong too, has all the potential China have, but needs some more decades to evolve.

Lastly id say EU, after endless wars for domination since the antique i think this will become even more statelike in future, also pretty charming future for this block imo, no single nation won, they all did the diploway

No wonder US is trying to get closer ties with rest of Northamerica to keep up with theese 3 giants.

So where is Russia in all this? who in reality is just a semigiant compared to the rest, not sure, guessing they will keep to themselfes, and most likely have closest ties with EU.

oh, and any fullscale wars between any of theese huge blocks is just so scary to think about, it prolly wount happen, so let the spacerace begin

 

[TheLastOne36]

Just thought id comment on some of the US-hype, while it looks powerfull right now, its more interesting what lies ahead of us imo.

As i see it, US became a major power after ww1, along with France, England, Russia.
Ww2 left all of Europe as the big loser incl the `winners`France+England, back was just the two now superpowers US and Russia (soviet), untill around 90` Soviets fast decline starts openly, warzaw-pact dies fast, while Nato still tries to find excuses for continuing, despite no obvious threats can be seen.

So now in 07` whos gonna be the new kids on the block? Clearly China will surpass US in economy very soon and already does by huge margin in manpower ,real question is when and if they choose to challenge US`s military also.

India looks strong too, has all the potential China have, but needs some more decades to evolve.

Lastly id say EU, after endless wars for domination since the antique i think this will become even more statelike in future, also pretty charming future for this block imo, no single nation won, they all did the diploway

No wonder US is trying to get closer ties with rest of Northamerica to keep up with theese 3 giants.

So where is Russia in all this? who in reality is just a semigiant compared to the rest, not sure, guessing they will keep to themselfes, and most likely have closest ties with EU.

oh, and any fullscale wars between any of theese huge blocks is just so scary to think about, it prolly wount happen, so let the spacerace begin

USA wouldn't be a super-power right now if it's wasn't for europe and WW2.

 

[Tortilla Boy]

->cybrxkhan:

It was used by Tatar Uhlans, I'm not sure who copied who -there are different opinions on that. I think that it's of Asian origin, because it's doesn't fit into European warfare style. It's more like Mongol psychological warfare - like using fireworks in battle to wreak havoc and panic in enemy troops. But there are more of "winged" examples:

Greek-Venetian Stradiotti:

Spoiler :

Turkic Deli:

Spoiler :

Another Deli example:

Russian Sokolnik:

Spoiler :

Mirza Ali Giray, son of the Crimean Tatar Khan, and commander of the Tatar force assisting the Turks at Vienna in 1683:

Spoiler :

So, it's not like "out of the blue" thing, that Poles also had such troops

 

[Fugl]

TheLastOne36:
Agree, Europe destroyed itself sorta, leaving it very weak, both east and west blocks got dominated by the two real victors, especially east ofcourse, France fex was `allowed` to leave Nato

 

[Tortilla Boy]

USA wouldn't be a super-power right now if it's wasn't for europe and WW2.

It's more about crisis of financial systems in the past, but it's linked with two Wars, which had major impact on fall of Gold Standard.

Let's just say that US is so rich because it borrows so much from China (Chinese govt. buying US obligations) And it's bad, because we ride on the same cart - meaning, every country has it's reserves in $, but those $ are just words and trust. If one day China would try to do, what de Gaulle tried back in fixed exchange system (sending 7 ships filled with $ to US), we would be back in the Bronze Age.
The problem is, that occasionally crashes of financial systems do occur, which could imply that there is no "ideal financial system". Well, too bad.

 

[cybrxkhan]

->cybrxkhan:

It was used by Tatar Uhlans, I'm not sure who copied who -there are different opinions on that. I think that it's of Asian origin, because it's doesn't fit into European warfare style. It's more like Mongol psychological warfare - like using fireworks in battle to wreak havoc and panic in enemy troops. But there are more of "winged" examples

don't worry, i'm well versed in Mongolians. hence my name, cybrxKHAN. i've been reading on them since i was in elementary school.

its just ive never read about them having wings. i know they have made arrows that made funny noises, but never having wings to make funny noises as well.

so, well, thanks for that tidbit. theres always something to learn.

 

[RedRalph]

Hmmm.... I wouldnt be so sure about Russia being a second rate power. If they can keep their economy broadly in Russian hands, then they have the energy reserves to be extremely powerful. In fact, if the Shanghai co-operation Org can become a fully fledged alliance, it will rvial NATO. and when it comes down to it, Russia cant be pushed around and bullied like a lot of countries because of its nuclear arsenal. they wouldnt use it, but a country that has thousands of warheads cant be bullied like say, Iraq, Iran etc...

 

[Dennis_Moore]

Clearly China will surpass US in economy very soon

I doubt it, they still have a long way to go considering that they're still behing Germany and Japan (China is only #2 if you modify for domestic purchase power, which is rather irrelevant on a global scale).

 

[RedRalph]

I doubt it, they still have a long way to go considering that they're still behing Germany and Japan (China is only #2 if you modify for domestic purchase power, which is rather irrelevant on a global scale).

It might take 30 years, but tis going to happen, bar some massive catastrophe

 

[Molon Labe]

USA wouldn't be a super-power right now if it's wasn't for europe and WW2.

Probably true. Kind of funny how history affects the modern day, huh?

And if Julius Caesar had stepped on a rusty nail and died of tetanus or Napoleon of syphilis before either did anything, things might be different. And Babylon might have been the first civilization to walk on the moon.

The U.S. is a superpower, like it or not, right or wrong. That is in part due to the military, but only in small part. The U.S. is set up well for technological innovations and individual entrepeneurship and encourages both. It's why a disproportionate chunk of advances tend to come from Americans. Look at pharmaceutical research alone.

Two things I find particularly amusing: 1) People make assumptions about a country based on things they find on the internet and people that post on forums.

2) Paris Hilton and Britney Spears are name checked worldwide. Says something about the both the state of the culture and the influence it has.

 

[Swedishguy]

what i hate more than this nationalistic talk about Poland (im not taking either side just saying the quantity) is how everyone thinks Americans are dumb fat @$$es that dont know anything. I'm American, and happen to be pretty intelligent for a 12 year old boy. It's fine if you watch those youtube videos about how (here comes the keyword) some Americans are stupid, just don't take from that video that all Americans aren't smart.

I don't think that americans are, um...

dumb fat @$$es that dont know anything

just that most of them are. Some might be quite intelligent.

 

[Spearthrower]

Whether you think it or not, it doesn't need to be posted, does it?

 

[Fugl]

Agree with Spearthrower on thatone

Anyhow

RedRalphWiggum:
Shanghai co-operation is interesting, but imo it doesnt look like it will be a single political statelike power, more a pendant to Nato at most as you also say, and to awoid cold, and especially hot wars in Asia, while it maybe also can be used to keep US and EU out of interests while they develop further, in long run however India and China wount need it i think, as they get more and more powerfull on their own,Shanghai co-operation imo also shows that Russia now needs to rely on others if they want any large influence.

Russia`s main problem imo is relative small population compared to the other 4 and one of the fastest dropping too, now just half of was it was in the Soviet heydays, now i dont think Russia will be bullied around either, but to be a true greatpower imo, you need a good economy, and a market so big it just cant be ignored combined with a large population, then you have the opportunity to raise great armies, wich i think future will be more about rather than actually having them.

Dennis_Moore:
All analysis point that way
Also worth mentioning that EU already surpasses US in economy, tho its still not a state in traditional sense, development towards it is happening, like more joined forignpolicy etc, but still slowly however, but benefits of being part of a influencial superpower is just too many when alternative is being small with in reality very little influence globally, even for the larger nations of Europe.

 

[RedRalph]

RedRalphWiggum:
Shanghai co-operation is interesting, but imo it doesnt look like it will be a single political statelike power, more a pendant to Nato at most as you also say, and to awoid cold, and especially hot wars in Asia, while it maybe also can be used to keep US and EU out of interests while they develop further, in long run however India and China wount need it i think, as they get more and more powerfull on their own,Shanghai co-operation imo also shows that Russia now needs to rely on others if they want any large influence.

Russia`s main problem imo is relative small population compared to the other 4 and one of the fastest dropping too, now just half of was it was in the Soviet heydays, now i dont think Russia will be bullied around either, but to be a true greatpower imo, you need a good economy, and a market so big it just cant be ignored combined with a large population, then you have the opportunity to raise great armies, wich i think future will be more about rather than actually having them.

Yeah I know its being set up to be a counterweight to NATO, it wont ever be a supranational entity like the EU, but it could still be the second most powerful bloc on Earth with the singing of a formal military alliance. Less likely now the DPRK isnt going to be attacked (Never was going to be in reality). but if Iran is, you can bet $s for Os they will increase their military co-operation.

China needs Russia as much as vice-versa. Chinas army, although numerically huge, cant be used effectively beyond their borders because of obsolete equipitment. theyre relying on Russia to help them upgrade their army (even then the tech level of their army wony be top class, maybe second class), and Russia view China as a gigantic market for its energy, potentialy big enough to keep their economy afloat. China has energy supplies from Sudan and Venezuela, but frankly energy-rich countries unfirendly to the US arent long-term reliable sources of Oil or Gas. Russia is...

I thjink over the next 15 years China and Russia will see an alliance as both of their best chances to rise and counter NATO

 

[Fugl]

RedRalphWiggum:

Agree with you, can easily be outcome, also most in EU dont like the idea of an EU streching to pacific with inclusion of Russia, thus Russia is looking elsewhere for partners.

However think even later on better alternatives to the limited resource fossilfuels is are found, thus obsoleting it, by that time (30-50years?) i doubt an advanced, developed China will need Russia for that much, maybe still for some resources

 

[Grimz101]

You are forgetting that Russia is an energy superpower, if you live in Europe no doubt you would of heard on the News, about Russia demanding Higher prices to countries like Georgia (they were low before due to vassalship, but then they stopped being vassals.. i dont know how considering they dont have 50% land or population )
But Russia has used its leverage before with oil, as it supplies Europe, infact if Russia stopped sending Oil to Europe, that would be a major crisis and infact cripple Europe/ The European Union untill they could secure new deals with the OPEC Nations (stands for oil someing something ) the only other Energy superpower is Saudia Arabia, and well America basicly has them as a vassal, and one potential Energy superpower Venezuela, who actually have more oil then the whole middle east, but in a harder form to extract, which costs more ect.. but as the price of oil rises, Venezuela will be a Energy Superpower.

Another poster talked about USA economy in foreign reserves, and that is entirely true, China and many many other countries have huge reserves of American Dollars, which the American economy may well depend on.. im not sure im not starting Economics in College till a weeks time , most of this is because of Oil, since you buy the barrel in dollars, its priced that way.. well countries such as Iraq(before it got vassalized by America, and before George W Bush gave speach about Axis of evil and whatnot) wanted to stop trading oil in Dollars but in Euros, then America invaded!! OMGosh Conspiracy!!
Iran is considering the same i think,
North Korea is following suite!
Venezuela is embracing selling Oil in Euros instead of dollars, wait a minute arnt Iran, and North Korea, aswell as Iraq who first thought about selling Oil in Euro instead of Dollar are all of George W Bush axis of evil!! Conspiracy!
Venezuela has been accused of Terrorism aswell, and i think was added to the list and taken off a week later.. tut tut America.. well because of Mainly Venezuela all OPEC nations are considering it, selling oil in Euros, meaning maybe 75% of American Foreign reserves could potentially be sold away, maybe making something comparable to the Wall street crash, if this is not true i wonder why Bush keeps Declaring war/accusing terrorism on all the Countries who are trying to push this through.


China, in 50 years will have stronger Economy then America if current annual growth stays the same, which i doubt.. considering all the Crisis America is in right now Housing crisis which will reappear soon, since they did not fix it, just avert it i say.. Foreign Reserves crisis.. other crisis that i dont know about .
India will have stronger Economy with about 75 years, mainly because China can easily move a town of 100,000 people to build a road easily, because they care about the Nation as a whole and Economic growth, and well India is Democratic meaning it cant get away with such things , and India needs to sort out its current system, because im not lying its Running the Caste System, it needs to stop doing that( it is currently trying) but well its hard when you have 1-1.3billion people i forget..


Someone wrote about China's power projection and they are completely right, China can only project power within its Region, it does not have a Blue water navy (one like Britain, India or America) which can project itself around the world and invade anywhere, like America did to Iraq for instance.. China would not be able/have a very hard time doing so.. China since the 90s after the First Gulf war, where they watched a side (Iraq again) get beaten, and well China has similar levels of tech when it came to Military, so since then they have been mass updating their military, and are working with Russia to develop / steal new stuff and have a 1st rate military, Also forging closer Links with India, i think within the last 6 months they reopened borders with India, after it had been shut a long time due to a Minor Border war.. China was Friendly with Pakistan, so they got -4 You traded with our worst Enemies with India, and well India was best friends with Russia during the Sino-Soviet split so the same to them, but well soon maybe they will help each other with military tech i bet, Also America sells weapons to Israel, Israel sells it to China, Directly or through India/Russia, China recently tested its anti Satalite weapons, which was a success, which would potentially mean taking away America's biggest Advantage, think of the 1st Gulf war again when they beat (i know again Iraq) Satalite gave them clear picture, it helped take out their communication and infrastructure, so well China is getting there fast...

 

[RedRalph]

People might have seen in the news today, China is thought to possibly have hacked the Pentagon, and can do so with regularity apparently. and they are in the process of developing a blue water navy, they really havent needed one til now, until 1991 the main threat being the giant to the north, but now the US is seen as the potential aggressor or interferer in the Formosa dispute. and obviously in such a case of war (Which aint going to happen, the Us wont commit mass suicide/murder over Formosa) a navy would be very important.

China can defend China at present, no one in their right mind would attack China, but they are seeking to increase their military capability, as are Russia, and theres no reason to think the two nations wont become even more close over time, especially as together they can control the former Central Asian SSRs, thus monopolising a huge % of the worlds energy reserves. and thats not all. Venezuela is trying to seel more and more of its oil to China instead of the US (in €s as Grimz said), so they could potentially be a lower tier member of any future alliance. the Cold war is over, and it wont get to that level of tension again, but there is a clear new strategic picture emerging for the next century IMO.