Let's Discuss Poland

[bombel1979]

frankly speaking if Poland was included, Sweeden should go first... those two "civs" are comparable in terms of significance but I admit that Sweeden had larger impact on our history; but we have a few civs that should be included not earlier than civ V and are present in civ IV

 

[Molon Labe]

blitz, your assumptions and logic are wrong... sorry, but your education system is... hm, lets say that you focus on the elementary things
and that is why we know the difference between Nevada and Washington D.C and people from the West have problems with understanding the history of other regons then yours (just wondering how many school hours you were tougth about Polish history? and if none was it really a reason that Poland did nothing in last 1000 years?

when I was on a school visit in UK I was shocked that in the age of 14 your kids don't know things that are learned in Polish schools at the age of 10...

you should be glad that you can buy scientists from the poorer countries (we have great scientists but we are really poor in marketing innovations).

Im not talking that Poland was a great empire that is unknown by "the West". no that would be rubish, but I assume that your "fact basis" is not very broad... and if you don't have the knowledge how can you judge?

This thread moves fast, hard to keep up.

I think you make some strange assumptions about all things being equal. Like it or not, places such as Nevada and Washington DC have had far more influence in the world than, say, Polish history. I would be dismayed in your educational system if you didn't know about Washington DC just as I would be surprised your 10 year olds were taught the inner workings of the Inuit social structure. Point is you can't be taught everything, one hopes you're taught the important things first.

 

[DemonMaster]

First, which country that is in and which country is not is quite unimportant, because, a normal game of civ has nothing to do with history. I (from sweden) don't like the Vikings, not only because of the mythic approach of it (uh), but because they don't represent my playing style, I don't actually care what they are called.

Second, in scenarios (scenario, not mod), I love to play Sweden, if the scenario is well done and fairly accurate (I don't like to play sweden in RTW for example), because then it matters what I play.

PS
I'm not that good doing scenarios (anymore, I was good during CivII and Test of Time) so please can't anyone do the 30 year war or the great northern war scenario. If anyone do, I would gladly play both Sweden and Poland and others.

 

[Molon Labe]

No, this is wrong, and more offensive than anything else in this thread because it is sincere. There is no such thing as "races" as far as humans are concerned. Asian/Caucasian/African/Inuit are not races, there is only one race: the human race. The whole concept of a sub-group of "race" has had no place in the scientific community for decades, and remains out despite the further exploration of the human genome. To quote science magazine: "Allelic frequencies vary between any selected human groups--to assume that those variations reflect 'racial categories' is unwarranted." "Race" as mentioned above is nothing but a social construct, and has no place in an unbiased discussion.

Totally agree with you that race is a social construct rather than a scientific one. It always has been and different societies have divided the races in different manners.

However I do think you're far too quick to find offense where none exists. Caucasian, African, etc. are pretty well accepted social constructs, and whether they have a basis in science or not, to simply mention them is not "offensive".

 

[cybrxkhan]

you know, by stuffing all poland discussions here on ONE thread, instead of, say, five threads, this thread goes 5 times as fast, 5 times as furious, and 5 times as... repetitive.

Poland could be in. Poland has enough merit to be in. But... would it, and would Firaxis want it, to be in?

So, yes, i stand on my point.

 

[TheLastOne36]

the annoying thing is that the "we demand you add country X as a civ" ppl could simply mod it in themselves and it would take .00001% of the time and effort they've put into whining about it in the forums.

it took me all of 40 minutes to mod my first custom civ following a tutorial.

can you play it on multiplayer?

Poland didn't have to do much with the colonies of Courland. The only present day countries which may deserve to be related to them are Latvia and Lithuania. But that's just my opinion which you soon will prove to be western ignorance and a lack of education.
And while you are at it, could you also correct these entries at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_o...and_Semigallia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courland_colonization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Andrews_Island

There are written stupid things like that Courland, even though a vassal, acted autonomously, that they spoke German and Latvian there, that the settlers in the colonies were Baltic Germans etc.

True, but was courland the vassal of Germany or Poland?

Who supplied the materials and ships?

Germany or Poland?

 

[TheLastOne36]

you know, by stuffing all poland discussions here on ONE thread, instead of, say, five threads, this thread goes 5 times as fast, 5 times as furious, and 5 times as... repetitive.

Poland could be in. Poland has enough merit to be in. But... would it, and would Firaxis want it, to be in?

So, yes, i stand on my point.

your point stands, this topci is repititive. And you repeated the same thingagain to.

 

[Seras]

can you play it on multiplayer?

can and have

 

[TheLastOne36]

can and have

Against someone who doesn't have the mod? As in the other 99.99% of the civ population?

 

[cybrxkhan]

And you repeated the same thingagain to.

Poland helps me increase my post count!

well, anyhow, to furthur my point, when we get to 2nd expansion, a lot of regional powers (for any amount of time) - are game: Ethiopia, Hittites, Khmer, etc. etc.

 

[SkippyT]

First, which country that is in and which country is not is quite unimportant, because, a normal game of civ has nothing to do with history. I (from sweden) don't like the Vikings, not only because of the mythic approach of it (uh), but because they don't represent my playing style, I don't actually care what they are called.

I think that Sweden couldn't hold up a civilization by itself. Only if it would be merged with the other Scandinavian countries could it make a civilization more important than f.x. Israel, Poland, Polynesia, Austria or even Tibet.
I absolutely agree with you that the mythical Viking civilization is pathetic and should be dumped.
I think the main obstacle is neighbor-rivalry between Sweden and Denmark who just think they're enough themselves. Surely, both were important (Denmark conquering England and Normandy, Sweden in the 30 years war etc) but when you think about it, we Scandinavians have more in common than.. the French, English, Spanish, Russians and even Germans.

 

[Seras]

Against someone who doesn't have the mod? As in the other 99.99% of the civ population?

no, of course it was with other ppl that i shared the mod with. i don't play with 99.99% of the civ population either way so i don't see why it's an issue.

but surely if poland is such a popular and important demand you'd have no problem finding plenty of ppl wanting to play the mod with you, right?

unless of course there's realy only 3 loudmouths that account for all the poland discussions...then that sucks for you

Moderator Action: Warned - Trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Legat]

True, but was courland the vassal of Germany or Poland?

Who supplied the materials and ships?

Germany or Poland?

Where did I say something about Germany?

Can you provide a source that states that they used Polish ships? And even if they did, the people who colonized weren't Poles. I think people count more than material.

 

[TheLastOne36]

no, of course it was with other ppl that i shared the mod with. i don't play with 99.99% of the civ population either way so i don't see why it's an issue.

but surely if poland is such a popular and important demand you'd have no problem finding plenty of ppl wanting to play the mod with you, right?

unless of course there's realy only 3 loudmouths that account for all the poland discussions...then that sucks for you

Yes, but what if someone wants to play as sobieski, and i want to play as Augustas? i'm not going to downlaod a mod just so i can play with him...

Where did I say something about Germany?

Can you provide a source that states that they used Polish ships? And even if they did, the people who colonized weren't Poles. I think people count more than material.

I agree with you there.

Oh and that polish ship thing, well i don't think the germans are going to give ships to a rival colonial power?

 

[Seras]

Yes, but what if someone wants to play as sobieski, and i want to play as Augustas? i'm not going to downlaod a mod just so i can play with him...

why not?

you harp incessantly that the developers should make poland a civ but when faced with the option of playing with it included in the game you won't even go through the extremely minimal effort of DLing a mod.

 

[TheLastOne36]

And what if i want to play as Sobieski for example? I'm no going to ask everyone to download it!

1. It wastes time
2. No one will say yes.

 

[Legat]

Oh and that polish ship thing, well i don't think the germans are going to give ships to a rival colonial power?

I don't understand...

 

[TheLastOne36]

Would England give ships to france while there at war with them over the colonies?

I think not.

 

[Legat]

What does this have to do with Poland and Courland?

 

[Seras]

then wouldn't that mean that NO ONE ELSE CARES ABOUT HAVING POLAND IN CIV.?

it's the prefect case of 'put up or shut up'...if YOU of all people can't even get ONE game going with a poland including mod...obvisouly there's zero demand for it on the multiplayer market.