Liberty start : libraries or monuments first ?

[Magean]

Hi,

If I go liberty, I might be able to plant 3 cities early on but they'll have no monuments (as compared to a tradition start). So I may :
-build libraries first to get my NC on time
-build monuments first to overcome the sluggish culture start but then NC will get delayed
-mix that liberty start with tradition opener and legalism to save hammers and moneys with free monuments. Policy order would be : trad opener -> liberty till free settler -> legalism.

Which is, in your opinion, the best option (this is no liberty vs tradition thread, the postulate is that we go liberty for the free settler anyway) ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Doctor Doom]

I would advise against mixing tradition and liberty unless your Poland. In my liberty games I normally have saved up enough gold to buy a library in my lowest production city. Try to aim for the NC at around T70-90 depending on your start.

Also try to get ATLEAST 4 cities with liberty if you're gonna only 3 you might aswell use tradition!

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

going liberty, I might build a monument first in the first two cities, then a library first in the third city. the idea is to get the NC up fast, so ideally you would be buying that third library if possible. I find 4 cities before the NC is too slow, found the 4th city after NC.

In fact, i am sure there have been times I have had 2 city NC with a liberty start, but then you are at risk of not getting the best location for the third city since it will be delayed a little. It kind of depends on your neighbors and the size of the map.

 

[Magean]

In my liberty games I normally have saved up enough gold to buy a library in my lowest production city.

But do you build a monument first in your other cities ?

Also try to get ATLEAST 4 cities with liberty if you're gonna only 3 you might aswell use tradition!

Of course. When saying "3 cities" I wasn't including the capital.

 

[direblade99]

I assume you're going to plant more cities afterwards?

 

[Magean]

Yes I would.

 

[tommynt]

Allways Monuments 1.

not so much for the overal culture but for boarder expand ..

 

[chazzycat]

monuments

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Often libraries, actually, especially with the later cities. I want my NC! And since I duck back into Tradition, I'll get the monuments eventually.

 

[Jack Funk]

I usually go Liberty (I like to play wide) and my build at first is scout, monument, scout, worker, library. I get my second city with the free settler, start with monument in it, then build my third and forth settlers. I will often build monuments first in these two cities as well (depending on how long it takes to get them out). Then libraries. After I get the fourth city I'll go Pyramids to get the workers. By then, I should have libraries everywhere, so NC.

 

[notam]

I usually go Liberty (I like to play wide) and my build at first is scout, monument, scout, worker, library. I get my second city with the free settler, start with monument in it, then build my third and forth settlers. I will often build monuments first in these two cities as well (depending on how long it takes to get them out). Then libraries. After I get the fourth city I'll go Pyramids to get the workers. By then, I should have libraries everywhere, so NC.

i personally like to have 5-6 citys up and then rush the NC with GE. Frees up so many turns for everything (read units) else.
Sometimes it means wait for few turns to finish liberty, but all the monumnets + cultuar ally.. Should be done before turn 100.

 

[Cromagnus]

Definitely monuments first in the capital. In the rest, same, unless you're Pacal or Ethiopia... I'd rather have both pyramids & libraries up first. All that extra early science and faith is awesome. Just make sure to ally a Cultural CS.

Although, as tommy says, the cultural boundary expansion is more the problem than the rate of social policy acquisition. So, really I'd put a pt in tradition first if you're going to do libraries before monuments. It doesn't delay your settler all *that* much.

You can take it even further with certain civs (Poland, Monte and Pacal) by taking Tradition all the way to Monarchy, hard-building settlers, and taking Republic->Citizenship->Representation->Meritocracy and leaving the last policy for when you need a great person in the mid or late game.

But yeah, generally monuments before libraries.

I used to be in favor of rushing the NC with a GE, and you can do it by t80 with cultural ally, but now I hard-build and plant or bulb a GS instead... MOAR science.

 

[BaronBeer]

How do you deal with Happiness in Liberty? The more cities you have the greater the pain it is to keep them happy. This is what makes me miss Slavery from Civ4...

 

[chazzycat]

don't do it unless there are luxuries around. If you only have a couple luxes nearby, go tradition. Religion is the other key, asceticism and pagodas are pretty good.

 

[kb27787]

don't do it unless there are luxuries around. If you only have a couple luxes nearby, go tradition. Religion is the other key, asceticism and pagodas are pretty good.

This. Forget about liberty altogether unless Poland (and even then Tradition-Piety double pantheon tolerance may be better)

 

[Memoryjar]

Monuments first. But if I might have NC sooner library in 3th or 4th city. Depends of cash, upcoming warfare and start base.

Liberty is awesome but hard to play compare to tradition/honor/piety.

 

[Syailendra]

capital, monument first.
But with liberty i tends to settle on luxes, so i went shrine first on non capital, taking culture or happiness pantheon

 

[isau]

I decide based on how many turns it will take to build each new Library. If it's more than about 28 turns and I can't buy it with gold, then always Library first. Some people say this isn't ideal, but I always have long build times in early cities.

I usually a able to plant 2 cities prior to the NC being built. More than that and I find the NC being delayed too long. In BNW the NC usually gets finished around turn 80, for me. But I also tend to build a few Archery units early and use them to harass nearby neighbors. This keeps them from expanding (ideally) and means those spaces I want are still free after the NC is complete. It also gives me the ability to keep Barbarian units out of my territory and to possibly win points with City States.

FWIW AIs on Emperor usually send out the first Settler around turn 30, so I try to have around 3 units nearby to intercept them. Much easier to do when they are cornered, and not always feasible in any case, but effective when it works.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Well you should also add in colluseums in the discussion.

If you are doing going for a large peacefull settling empire, building colusseums first is not bad because happines give you population which give you everything else.

Monument for border expansion is good if you allready do have all happines you need right now, however you can purchase the tiles you need if the aren't in the city borders.

Library is only good if you allready got decent population, rushing for the NC without good population in any city is not a very good idea in my opinion, each library you build could be 3/4 of a colusseum so keep that in mind.

 

[Ninakoru]

Monuments get priority if you can build both before going NC, if going monument first will delay NC, then library first.

Most of the time you can do monument before library in your two first cities and maybe in the last if you can rush-buy the library.