LK140 - Trying emperor

[Jabah]

Another (semi-random) though : with our UB needing Priesthood and our quite favorable start (research and production wise), what about going for an early Oracle to either Feudalism (protective longbow) or Metal Casting (or something else, but no chance for CS)

 

[yena]

I'd been hoping to play soon, but since it seems to be taking a while to agree on the course to take, and since I will be quite busy for the couple of days, I would like to request a swap. I should be able to play from Sunday/Monday again.

 

[Atlas]

Lurker Comment
I think I would farm 2 floodplains and cottage 2 and switch back and forth for when I want to speed/slow growth.

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
I would like pottery after bronze working. I like the idea of 2 cottages and 2 farms on the flood plains.
I like the dot map, and agree with all 3 sites. The big problem is NONE of them support much in the way of cottages. An all production empire is going to be tough in the science department.

I suspect the southern cities will be most of what we get, but the north looks a lot better for income. For an economy city yellow dot looks nice. I would like to add this one to the list of city sites. I realize the discovery of copper may change on of the city locations.




Roster
Signed up:

LKendter
Swiss Pauli
Yena (on deck)
Refar (currently playing)
Jabah

Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: None

Planned wars - None

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I like the dot map, and agree with all 3 sites. The big problem is NONE of them support much in the way of cottages. An all production empire is going to be tough in the science department.

Errm...red dot has three FPs and a river grass tile which is a pretty decent amount of cottage potential considering the map type and our relative lack of scouting.

 

[LKendter]

Errm...red dot has three FPs and a river grass tile which is a pretty decent amount of cottage potential considering the map type and our relative lack of scouting.

Red Dot also has an absurd amount of hills and plain forests.

 

[Refar]

Uh... i am UP ? i was think there will be one turnset before me...

Edit: Oh i see Yena skiped out Got it now.

 

[Refar]

Turns 35 - 50 / 3125BC to 2750BC

Turn 37: - See Lincolns Boarders to the N. His Capital is 10 plots away... Vulture Rush... - depending on if and where of the Copper of course.

Turn 39: - Meet Hammurabi. He is somewhere N from America.

Turn 43: - Warrior done, start Settler, planing to whip him. Food bar at 36 .

Turn 45: - Find out that Lincolns capital actually cuts the continent in two. BW next turn... Fingers crossed for Copper.

Turn 46: - BW done. Set Pottery as requested
- Found Copper... In Lincolns BFC That's cruel.

Turn 48: - Settler Ready for whip, revolt to slavery.

Turn 49:

Turn 50: - Settler done and regrew to Size 3. 12 overflow avaiable - i would put those into a new warrior.

A Map

Spoiler :

We have a Warrior Fogbusting at red dot. The Settler is not moved yet.

I am thinking of keeping the warrior near Lincolns Boarder and snag his Worker when he tries to Mine the Copper. Preventing him from mining as long as we can, and Chariot-rush him. This is what i would do on Monarch... But as this is emperor, not sure how it will work out.

The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/57778/LK140_BC-2750.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[yena]

Got it!

We need metals and a quick chariot rush does seem like the best way foward. Here is my plan for the next turn set: settle the red spot, build another worker while connecting the horses, and then both cities should build nothing but chariots until we are ready to attack. I would probably try to avoid attacking the worker if possible - getting into a premature war would only make Lincoln put hammers into archers for the capital.

 

[LKendter]

We need metals and a quick chariot rush does seem like the best way forward.

I want to hear from some of the other team members before we go this way.

I am disappointed if this is the best plan. I've heard several comments that the only way to win at emperor is an early rush. One of the things I like Civ4 is the variety unlike Civ3 where attack early and often was the only real plan.

If playing emperor means getting stuck with an early rush every time, then I know emperor isn't for me.

 

[Tatran]

If playing emperor means getting stuck with an early rush every time, then I know emperor isn't for me.

Maybe you should try to play on large maps.
More room for a)peaceful expanding, b)barbs to spawn and c)exploration of the map.
But most of all, because the AI capitals are further away, an early rush is almost out.

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
I would like to hear comments from some other team members before I agree to a chariot rush of Lincoln.

I don't see anything else to comment on.

Roster
Signed up:

LKendter
Swiss Pauli
Yena (currently playing and already got it)
Refar (swapped)
Jabah (on deck)

Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: None

Planned wars - None

 

[yena]

I am disappointed if this is the best plan. I've heard several comments that the only way to win at emperor is an early rush.

From my (limited) emperor experience. you can often expand peacefully more often than not. I outlined my usual early game strategy in my first post, and there is no early rush mentioned there. In this game the neighbours are unusually close, and we will have to fight somewhere down the line, but I do think we have a choice. We could go for a small but advanced civ instead (all the gold will help), but no UU for us then. An early rush would be easier, but either way is fine with me.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I don't think a chariot rush is worth the risk: I don't know hwy yena has decided we won't have any metal when we haven't even researched Ironworking

I'd like to settle that Jumbos-Fish site as city 3 (unless Abe pips us to it). Elepult will yield us AI lands quite easily.

 

[Refar]

If not rushing, prehaps settle those Elephant/Fish site right now ? Would prevent Abe from beating us to it.

 

[Jabah]

I am with Yena and Refar on this. (That is against a premature war)
More to follow in a few minutes (with dotmap)

Jabah

 

[Jabah]

I am also against a premature war in which I don't believe in our chance, not against Abe (we should manage) but for the future as we might be spending too much ressource for a not that great result.

From what I could see, this map has several great advantage and I would let Abe in peace (for now). Without OBorder, no AI from the north could reach us, so that is less worry, we just have to be friend with Abe and he will always be in 1s line.

From the following dotmap (sorry if the colors are not the proper ones as I couldn't see -at that time- the previous ones), we could have (at least 5 decent cities which would be enough for a little while in term of economy.

I would settle in order :
1. my blue (cow+rice) : to seal the north from Abe incursion.
2. my green (fish, cow, wines, wheat) to seal the south from AIs in the south.
3. my red (elephantx3, fish, rice) : useless until Iron, but I fear Abe will steal it. Note that we could always settle 4N of our capital to have elephant (+fish+pig) if Abe move before us.
4. my purple (gold, horse, fish) : to be (one of) our commerce city, with cottage every where (maybe still a farm on one FP first to grow fast, to be cottaged later).
5. my orange (wheat, gold) : production city - military base? - (farm FP for more hill to work).

I would go settler happy (with some archer in between) ASAP (as long as Abe is not in WHEOOH, but I think he is a 'gentle' leader), to make sure we will have our backyard just for us.

We should then research Iron Working as one of our priority both to make jungle city usefull and see if we have Iron.

Jabah

NB : My emperor games are generally without early rush, except when I have no choice (like alone on a island with only 1 'aggresive' AI or AI blockading me) which imho is not the case here

 

[yena]

Well, I played my turns and I haven't commit us to any fighting. First I wanted to find out if there is any iron nearby.

In turn 51 we found out that we are weaklings (5th if power).

I settled Eridine in turn 53 to get horses, fish, fresh water, and some FPs.
Our worker started building a road towards the new city. In turn 55 Pottery
was in and I changed research to IW. Our capital finally reached size 5
in turn 61, and I started a worker (as an aside, I don't think that whipping
in the capital is a good idea in our case - we should be as big as possible
to be able to work all gold mines and speed our research).

An exploring warrior finds the Indian borders, and the barbs establish a city
on the south coast. It is in a good spot, so it may save us a settler build
and give experience points for our future army.

In turn 66 I find two American warriors busy mining the copper outside Washington without escort. I see a golden opportunity and DoW on Lincoln, stealing both workers. Two turns later he sues for peace.

The final status; we are 3 turns from IW, and a couple of turns from connecting the horses. We have 2 cities, 4 workers and 4 warriors.

I want to see the vultures in action, so I'm hoping for iron in the next set.
Good luck!

 

[LKendter]

I am disappointed if this is the best plan. I've heard several comments that the only way to win at emperor is an early rush. One of the things I like Civ4 is the variety unlike Civ3 where attack early and often was the only real plan.

If playing emperor means getting stuck with an early rush every time, then I know emperor isn't for me.

I don't think a chariot rush is worth the risk: I don't know hwy Yena has decided we won't have any metal when we haven't even researched Ironworking

I am also against a premature war in which I don't believe in our chance, not against Abe (we should manage) but for the future as we might be spending too much ressource for a not that great result.

From what I could see, this map has several great advantages and I would let Abe in peace (for now).

Standard LK house rules:
6) SGs are about cooperative team play. If you aren't willing to discuss plans before and / or after your turn, then the LK series isn't for you. Example of discussion that is expected:
a) Early game dot map planning
b) Any war against a direct neighbor (except land grab from a civ getting slaughtered)

In turn 66 I find two American warriors busy mining the copper outside Washington without escort. I see a golden opportunity and DoW on Lincoln, stealing both workers. Two turns later he sues for peace.

We had two comments against war. I saw nothing in favor of war. This definitely violates house rule #6. I don't know what I need to do to make it clearer that I don't want random wars like this.

No matter what this game is tainted for me. I really wanted to see if emperor could be won without an early rush. Stealing two workers IMHO was an early rush.

 

[sooooo]

lurker's comment:

I find two American warriors busy mining the copper outside Washington without escort. I see a golden opportunity and DoW on Lincoln, stealing both workers. Two turns later he sues for peace.

Wow, is this a feature of Lincoln's personality that he will talk to you after only 2 turns at war?