LK151 - WM, where are we?

It'll probably be all right. Of course I tempt fate by saying this :lol:, but we may sometimes overestimate the risk that native towns will flip. I can't remember the last time it actually happened.
 
Preturn: I am switching Rio to a Market. It should be one of our better cities with little corruption but has been stuck on Settlers.
Made a Embassy with Babylon. They will have Copernicus in 7 turns.
Follow suggestions by NP; in fact do other size 12 town
IBT: Our big stack heading for Petare is attacked and the Muskets are damaged. Also it be Salty is attacked by a Knight which retreats.
460 AD: Capture San Carlos and New Maturin.
Our stack near Petare has all the Muskets highly injured and now has Knights as the best defenders. Additionally, Venezuela is showing up with enough MDI to be a risk. I decide to retreat the stack and heal before heading out again. This is a bit tricky as we are in enemy territory. However I build and then abandon a town so the stack can safely retreat for healing. I also pillage a square to lessen access to our units. Kill a few other units and gain another Elite.
Several civs have both Astronomy and Chemistry (Babylon, America, SIoux). No 2x deals possible though.
IBT: Venezuela and America ally against Russia so Venezuela declares war.
Well this is not so good. America and Venezuela have an alliance against us.
We also got booted out of Babylon territory.
470 AD: Brasilia is taken off the long shot wonder for the war. Rush some of the Markets so we can start more military. Also rushed a Musket.
IBT:
Brasilia gets attacked and Wendy Marvel as well. Landing next to Erza Scarlet, an island city.
Venezuela moves more away from us and may be focusing on Russia. I may stay out of their territory if that is the case in order to deal with America.

When we get kicked out of Babylon due to our warrior our boat gets to travel somewhere new:


480 AD: So America now has Knights and can attack in one turn. A few units attacked last turn. I may try to take out Cincinnati and New Orleans if there is a chance. America will be more willing to make peace with some losses. This of course assumes I get a chance, but it does mean units will shift more toward them and away from Venezuela.
I reverse my decision, I still want to grab the Wines so I will invade Venezuela at least that much.
Erza Scarlet still has the Regular MDI in it which becomes Vet when attacking the landed Longbow. Erza's Aquaduct gets interrupted for a Musket which is 3 turns away so I rush it.
IBT: A few more light attacks by American Knights. We lose a Galley to American attack.
China declares war on the Sioux. Venezuela was heading West again.

490 AD: Built the wine town of Cana Alberona. Kill the few units we can reach.
IBT: A number of units are going past Wendy Marvel, both Venezuelan and American.
500 AD: We have the first turn with larger number of kills. We kill maybe 15 units. We also suffer our first losses with 3 Knights and a MDI lost.
IBT: More units streaming into our lands.
510 AD: With Venezuela there too its too much. I have to make peace. It costs us 20 gold to do so.
Trades are now possible. I get Banking from Babylon (dyes + ~3500) and trade it for Chemistry from Sioux (45 gpt + ~200 gold, I also buy Metallurgy (330 gpt) from Babylon and trade it for Astronomy (10 gold) from the Sioux.
We are very broke and have no gpt but have 4 new techs.
----------------------
Ok, I decided to stop here, because my next move requires team discussion.

I want to get Alliance vs America and ROP from Venezuela in this situation, but don't want to lock us into 20 turns of war without a discussion. I feel we have enough troops now to make progress against America after we kill their initial flood of units, and taking them out makes a good next goal.

This means I didn't yet play out this turn because how we play depends on this decision.

Here is an image of the situation.
 
Again I am stopping early. I want to give us time to discuss this. I am in favor of remaining at war with America likely until they are gone.

We now have tech to trade with Venezuela for the deal. I think ROP will give them flexibility to attack.

Edit: In response to NP, ya but I think we should pillage one wine. I realized a flip would mean breaking a deal so I didn't use it in a deal (unless I messed up somehow). If it gets demanded and we want to keep our rep, we would have to refuse which could lead to war.
 
Thanks for posting the midway save. I'll be able to start studying the position in an hour or so.
 
We are weak compared to America and Venezeula. We are strong compared to Russia.

So let the big guys slug it out for a while.

Could we get Australia involved too? They have an ROP with Venezeula.
 
Lurker:

Hampered by a lack of armies. I always worry on massive maps, when playing semi peaceful. (non AW) That I will not get an army, till the game gets into late middle ages. The AI will have large enough troops and town counts to over run me, unless I get a couple of leaders at that point.

On island maps, I will stay at war with one civ to leader farm, but if cont or pan, that defeats the non aw and you get ww.

Anyway good luck on getting some leaders soon.
 
This is a tricky decision, since we don't know what stacks the Americans might have a few tiles into the fog--possibly huge, possibly negligible. But the opportunity to have the Americans and Venezuelans bleed each other while we know they have large forces in contact is too good to miss, so I'd go with Greebley's idea.

Our new wines town should switch to a temple build and immediately rush it--I'm sure that was Greebley's real intention.

Egypt will give us 16 gpt for Education--miserable, but probably worth taking for a now-backward tech.

Greebley, I wouldn't expect to start playing for about 24 hours from now. So whatever you'd like to do in that time--nothing, a wrapup of this turn, or some new turns--will be fine with me.
 
What city did we put onto settler duty after taking one off? We have the typical deity issue with higher flip risk due to much culture for the AI.

Is there anyone else we can get to join the war vs. America? Venezuela is already bogged down with Russia, so I'm not sure how much they will help. A 20 turn lock on war at this point could turn out great, or all but end the game for us, depending how it goes.
I can't comment without have a sense if there is another civ that will join us.
With our cash so depleted for 4 techs, I don't know how much bargaining power we have.
 
I believe America has been at war with Russia uninterruptedly for quite a while now, whereas Venezuela has been on a war-peace-war pattern with Cathy. So we can hope that more American units than Venezuelan are far to the west at present.

We probably wouldn't really be locking ourselves into twenty full turns of war with America, since AI civs tend to abandon alliances quickly.
 
The Sioux have a long border with America, but won't join us in an MA an on Uncle Sam. No ROP with America; it appears that we do not have enough of something to offer them.

China has one city smack-dab between Sioux and the US but how they grabbed that spot I don't know. We don't have an embassy with China, so there home is an unknown.
 
For settlers we have several sitting around fortified in cities. We can hold off a little while. If we go after America then we can restart.

I don't think we should use our nearly corruption free city next to the capitol for settlers anymore.

Something came up so I didn't get a chance to play more today. You can take it NP.

I think we have enough to deal with a single AI. If need be do one hp to every troop to get them to retreat and heal. I was making more Trebs which are now cannon.
 
ROSTER:
LKendter
Greebley
Northern Pike (up)
CommandoBob (on deck)
 
I've got it.

The early good news is that after selling Banking to Venezuela for 153 gpt, we were easily able to buy the Sioux into the war against America along with the Venezuelans.
 
Lurker:

Another reason I like AW, the AI is just to easy to take advantage of in trades and deals.
 
I've finished playing, and the American war is going very well. We have three armies. :hammer: RL is calling me away before I can do the report, but I'll post by evening tomorrow at the latest.
 
510 (1): I'm going to start merging workers like a fiend. :satan: To take only the extreme case, we have fourteen workers servicing the distant and corrupt Chloe Armstrong, while three first-ring cities are stuck at sizes 7-8-9 with slow growth.

A ten-treb, two-cat bombardment of the largest American knight stack next to Wendy Marvel achieves very little, so we'll just hide behind our walls this turn and see how much the Venezuelans can soften the Americans up.

We merge our first ten native workers.

We send Education to Egypt for 16 gpt and 1 gold.

We bring the Venezuelans into an anti-American alliance and an RoP agreement, for Astronomy, as planned.

We're then able to sell Banking to Venezuela for 153 gpt and 16 gold. This in turn lets us recruit the Sioux to the anti-American cause, for 49 gpt.

The Americans and the Venezuelans bleed each other very satisfactorily around Wendy Marvel, and the Venezuelans raze Tacoma, the closest American city to WM.

The Americans trouble us only with two bad (given that the town is walled) knight-on-musket attacks at Dr. Carl Hill...and succeed in both of them (0-2).


520 (2): We disconnect one of the two wine sources at Cana Alberona, as suggested by Greebley.

With depleted American units all over the battlefield now, we smite six knights and two musketmen without loss (8-2). Seven of our victories are by elites, but no Great Leader results.

We sell Astronomy to Egypt for 236 gold.

We merge another six workers.

The Venezuelans join the Sioux (an African civ in this game) in an alliance against the Chinese (also African)--not ideal, as another distraction for Venezuela.

The Americans and Venezuelans continue to maul each other. Very few American units are visible around Wendy Marvel now--which is almost bad, since that's where our elites are.

We unhorse a single American knight attacking Dr. Carl Hill (9-2).


530 (3): We sell Chivalry to India for 18 gpt and 9 gold.

Slipping a settler through the swarm of Venezuelan units, we’re able to replace Tacoma with the new town of Paul Marsh.
 
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