LK21 - Japan, always War.

LKendter

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!
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Aug 15, 2001
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Worker automate is not fair is sucession games - please do not use it.
Also, no long go to orders. Don't fortify ships in the middle of the ocean.
Patch 1.21 required.
Must attach files using .ZIP format. The .SAV is much more prone to corruption.

playing
LKendter
Readylander
Rowain deWolf (playing)
Dark Sheer (on deck)

Arizona_Steve (dropped)


Civ = Japan
World = Large, Wet, Warm, 5 Billion, large continents.
Difficulty = Regent
Barbarians = Roaming
# Civs = 12
24 hours to verify you can play your turn, 48 hours to play.
Your choice, up to 20 turns. You can always play less.
NOTE: Unlike typical LK series, this will be reduced later in the game.
I just have to decide when


Scenario rules: (copied from Arathorn's game)
- NO PEACE!

War is always declared via diplomat at first meeting, with some trading (no per turn deals -- cash/techs ONLY) allowed at that time

That's it. One clean, easy rule (I believe). But with MASSIVE game effects -- no trading, probably

Monarchy forever (if not despotism) to avoid war weariness, ancient combat inevitable....


Game plan:
Tightly packed cities. We need plenty of low corruption cities.
Closer FP then my typical - I plan them for Democracy - something we will never see.
OK to avoid contact - Why tell a galley we are here?
Barracks ASAP.
Forget wonders (maybe GL) - except for the rushed ones.
First goal for leader - Army, heroic epic, and keep poping leaders.
Keep the workers away from borders.

Game coming up shortly.
 
3950 BC - Worker cofirms near water, but I wanted the river spot.
Kyoto is formed.
Warrior ordered - what else?
Start warrior code - need offensive units.
3850 BC - The worker is back, time to work on improvements.
3750 BC - Warrior completed, order second.
3550 BC - Warrior completed, order a third.
3500 BC - [dance]Border expansion, and we see horses.
3350 BC - Size 3 in 8, settler will complete in 8.
3200 BC - Investigate some minor city - These mongols are somewhat usefull - they teach us pottery.
Trouble is - it doesn't kill.
3100 BC - Investigate some minor city - The people abandon there city, and want to join us. The emperor welcomes them with open arms.
3050 BC - These people just go to the hill of gold, and build the city of Osaka.
A new warrior is order to protect these nice people.

Summary - An unexpected bonus with the 2nd settler. The city of gold will help our revenue quickly.
We do want barracks soon.

This is a large map, so it may be a bit before we spot someone.

Propose city sites:
A - Safe, behinds the lines city - With the wheat, a great sourcec of workers / settlers.
B - Critical one, Get us horses.
C - A rough guess for the next city.

We need tightly packed cities - border locks slow down enemy attacks - also, more production cities. Building cities for hospital time will hurt us. Game will be decided much earlier.

FP decision will be critical, don't build it TO soon.

LKendter
Arizona_Steve (currently playing) <<<
Readylander (up next)
Rowain deWolf
Dark Sheer

Hmmm.. I think every one of these names have been in a game with me. All but Arizona_Steve have played in an LK series game before.

Summary - http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/LK21-3050BC.zip
 
Same as
Readylander (up next)
Rowain deWolf
I saw them play in an anyone plays game -
Speaking of - LK20 needs a player right now.
 
Inherited turn:
Priority here is PRODUCTION, to get our military built as fast as possible. That means a heavy dose of settlers.
Amazingly good start position!
First call of business - the Royal Palace gets some nice paving and a lawn at the front.

(1) 3000BC
Increasing science from 50% to 90% will bring us Warrior Code in 9 turns instead of 14 at break even gold.
Kyoto builds settler, starts barracks. We need QUALITY VET TROOPS.

(2) 2950BC
Settler heads forth to claim the horses.

(3) 2900BC
There's something extremely unnerving about moving the warriors around in this game.

(4) 2850BC
Osaka trains a warrior, starts another.

(5) 2800BC
North East part of our peninsula is explored. Our warrior is heading South now. More great city-building land there.
Tokyo is founded, and immediately includes horses, game and four shielded grasslands within it's boundaries. A warrior is ordered there.

(6) 2750BC
(7) 2710BC
Our exploring warrior to the South goes hiking in the mountains to get a better view.

(8) 2670BC
Kyoto produces barracks, starts warrior.
Tokyo trains a warrior, starts another. This warrior will be sent exploring, and will be replaced with the one heading South from the coast. Saves a bit of time.

(9) 2630BC
We learn Warrior Code, start Horseback Riding.
Osaka trains a warrior, starts settler.

(10) 2590BC
Horses are connected to the trade network. Tokyo and Kyoto can build chariots.

(11) 2550BC
Kyoto builds warrior, starts chariot, for future upgrade to horseman.

(12) 2510BC
Tokyo builds warrior, starts barracks.

(13) 2470BC
(14) 2430BC
(15) 2390BC
Create two stacks of two warriors from our four warriors "out in the field".
Kyoto builds a chariot, starts settler.
Barbarians appear near the Eastern warrior group.

(16) 2350BC
Barbarian warrior dies, our warrior promotes.

(17) 2310BC
(18) 2270BC
Mountaineering warriors run into a barb camp.
Tokyo completes barracks, starts settler.

(19) 2230BC
A shangian encampment is destroyed, with our warrior in the red. He needs to rest before pressing on.

(20) 2190BC
A goody hut appears in view of our warriors. Turn 20 dammitt!! I WANNA POP IT!!! WHY CAN'T I POP IT??!! WAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Notes:
It looks increasingly like we're on our own island here. I have set all three cities producing settlers, as there is so much good land around here to colonize.
I'm still running 90% science at 2 gold per turn deficit. Horseback riding due in 9 turns. We have our first chariot - these can upgrade to horsemen as soon as we get horseback riding. Once we have horseback riding, beeline to mapmaking so we can get off this rock and kick some butt.
We have barracks at Kyoto and Tokyo now.

File: LK21-2190AD.zip
 
LKendter
Arizona_Steve
Readylander (currently playing) <<<
Rowain deWolf (up next)
Dark Sheer

If we are on an island - we CRITICALLY need to pack the cities tight! Screw 21 squares for the city - overlap, we will need every bit of production we can get.

Of course, we still don't know what will show up now.
This may NOT be an island.
 
Originally posted by lkendter
- NO PEACE! If we can contact a civ, we must declare war on them -- that turn.
OK to avoid contact - Why tell a galley we are here?

Question for clarification: Which of this two rules is to be followed?
(for me they are excluding another).

Since we are religous we can have a bit of Republic too :)

We got a great homeland to build our infrastructure to be ready for our oncoming wars :D


Rowain
 
Arathorn chanced the rules later -
The revised rule


War is always declared via diplomat at first meeting, with some trading (no per turn deals -- cash/techs ONLY) allowed at that time


This matches the way I saw the game played.
 
I need a further rules clarification: On my second turn I have spotted a red border to our south. I have checked our foreign advisor and we cannot contact the civ yet. There is a warrior waiting to move and if I move him south he will probably allow contact with the civ, if I move him east contact will probably be avoided for now. I would like to move the warrior away from the border so as not to have to declare war at this point. Is this allowed?
The rule changed from "if we can contact" to "at first meeting" so it appears to me that I can avoid contact at this point but I don't want to violate the intent of the rules.
I will wait to procede until this is decided. I will work on a dot map in the meantime.
 
In my game of the same variant, it was allowed to run from a border. Only when contact has been made (their name shows up on F2, for instance -- you see a unit or they do or culture borders touch or ....) is war required. Just hearing rumors of them (seeing their borders) didn't require action.

Similarly, contact with other civs didn't have to be traded for -- you're not required to go out of your way to find enemies -- just make enemies of everyone you find.

You all are, of course, free to interpret/make rules as you please.

Hope your game is as fun as ours!
Arathorn
 
Arathorn,

I have enjoyed following your game and hopefully our game is as much fun. I hope everyone in this game has had the chance to follow your game, there has been some great strategy discussions there. For anyone interested their game is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19001
Your game is different enough from ours that the challenges will be different, (we have no luxuries available yet, a different civ is being played, we have less immediate neighbors apparently, we have much different terrain, etc.), but much of the strategy will be similar. I do hope that we have as much luck producing great leaders as you have :)

I was almost ready to assume that lkendter's intent for the rules was the same as yours but I decided that I would like him to verify that is the case.

Readylander
 
This is my first time to make a dot map and I would like some feedback/criticism/alternatives.

Here are my thoughts on our next 10 cities, the first three being those that will be built with our current settlers under production. The remaining cities are somewhat in the order that I think we would want to build although some of them were tossups as to exact order.

Note the red border at the very bottom of the screenshot.

Red - settler not yet moved from Kyoto, will have warrior escort. This location moves our front line south towards the red border, is on a river, doesn't leave any unused squares to the north and has a decent mix of terrain types including four possible iron squares at first expansion. Plus it is close to our capital and therefore corruption/waste should be minimal.
Yellow - settler from Osaka, no defender immediately available. This location has our only reasonably close food bonus. With some improvements it can be a source of workers/settlers. It is close to our capital so little corruption and it has little overlap with our existing cities.
White - settler from Tokyo, will have warrior from Kyoto as escort. Slots in to Tokyo's squares without overlap or wasted squares. Has four bonus grassland squares.

Light blue - Has forest/game, fish and one grassland. Brings 3 more potential iron squares. It is close to our capital so corruption will be limited.
Light green - River site, moves our borders southwards towards our neighbors. It is mostly plains but will also bring 3 more potential iron sources. Has some overlap with red dot.
Pink-Close to our capital. Brings 2 more potential iron sources. Mix of grassland/plains with 2 hills. Has some overlap with Osaka.
Orange-River site, moves borders south, hills offer defensive bonus, 5 hills, 2 with gold, for greater shield and revenue production and potential iron sources.
Dark blue - Filler cities and/or mostly water which won't be big shield producers.

This is also my first attempt at posting an image so I hope it works.

LK21-2110BC_dot_map_by_Readylander.jpg
 
Your game is different enough from ours that the challenges will be different

I hope so...the instant that becomes false I'll have to stop playing civ3.

I do hope that we have as much luck producing great leaders as you have

We've had, what, 7? or 8*? 10? Too many to keep track of. And it's early AD. It's pretty crazy.

I was almost ready to assume that lkendter's intent for the rules was the same as yours but I decided that I would like him to verify that is the case.

I was just kinda letting you guys know what my intention (and actions) were in lotr2, absolutely NOT trying to "tell you what to do" or speak for lkendter.

* - the more I think about this, the more I think 8 is right (Hanging Gardens, 3 armies, Sistine, Sun Tzu, Heroic Epic, and one unused so far). I could've missed one (or more) easily, though.

Arathorn
 
My intent was to clone Arathon rules.
I agree with Arathon's comments -
they are our rules now.

Of course this one is going to be differnt -
Among others, I picked large world.

I agree - lack of luxuries is bad.
However, we already have horses connected -
just need the tech to use them.

The blue dots with the black circle is a low priority -
won't grow without irragation.

Yellow dot is an important spot -
With the wheat, we have a source of quick workers and settler -
This is our ONLY 3+ food spot.

Orange dot is a high priority
another river city, near capital.

I shifted the left side to squeeze one more city -
and to have the whale to use -
The X spot can support a mostly water city -
RDB23B taught me the value of cities for cash flow.
 
lkendter,

I thought you wanted to do the same as Arathorn but didn't want to screw it up this early in the game :)

Good call on the shift of cities.

I will get my turns done ASAP.
 
Actually avoiding screw up is appreciated -
I have seen some games get into an ugly situation on how to fix things.

Although I disagree with Sirian on some issues, I have very much come to appreciate is comments about mostly water cities.
Plus whales never hurt.

Avoid red for the moment - let's get horseriding first, or swordsmen.
 
Preturn: I drop the science rate 10%, this increases research time by 2 turns but saves us 2 gpt, I would like to have enough gold on hand when we meet the first civ so we can buy a tech before declaring war.

(1) 2150BC-Steve, you didn't miss anything by not popping the goody hut, we find 3 barbs hiding within.
(2) 2110BC-One of our warriors falls to the first barb, the second warrior defends against the other two barbs and is promoted to veteran. Kyoto finishes a settler and a warrior is started for defense of our upcoming cities. ( We need Bronze Working so we can build spearman.) Our neighbors borders are spotted! There is a red border just south of our southernmost warrior. I check our foreign advisor and we cannot communicate with this civ. So I move the warrior east, away from the border. The settler and a defending warrior head from Kyoto towards the red spot.
(3) 2070BC-No contact yet with the red border civ, the warrior moves east again.
(4) 2030BC-
(5) 1990BC-Osaka completes settler, starts temple. Need to expand borders to give more growth potential. Settler heads for yellow spot.
(6) 1950BC-Kyoto finishes warrior, starts another to defend yellow spot. Tokyo completes settler, starts chariot. Settler and warrior head for white spot. Our southern warrior plays with fire and explores southward along the eastern shores, no further red borders yet sighted.
(7) 1910BC-Munith founded on red spot, barracks started.
(8) 1870BC-Southern warrior decides he has pushed his luck enough and heads back north until he gets some supporting troops to back him up.
(9) 1830BC-A Roman settler/warrior pair are sighted by the southern warrior. We are unable to trade for any of their techs and they won't give in to our demands for bronze working so war is declared with no techs for us. Our southern warrior decides to try to be a hero and chases after the warrior/settler pair hoping to capture some free laborers. Edo is founded on yellow spot and immediately takes to it's intended role and starts training a worker to improve our lands.
(10) 1790BC-Horseback Riding is discovered and Bronze Working research begins so that we may someday have stronger defenders of our cities. Satsuma is founded on white spot and starts training a worker. Kyoto completes training of a warrior and starts training our newest discovery, a horseman. Our existing chariot is upgraded at a cost of 20 gold. Our recently completed warrior heads off to defend Edo.
(11) 1750BC-The Roman settler/warrior pair found a city but our warrior is not deterred, he intends to destroy the city or die trying. Our new horseman doesn't want to waste any time in joining in on the fun of fighting the pesky Romans and heads off into the southern wasteland alone.
(12) 1725BC-Our fearless warrior puts up a good fight but finally falls to a seriously injured enemy.
(13) 1700BC-Our warrior pair fortify themselves in some forest awaiting the attack of an approaching Roman warrior. They note that they are in a good position to see almost any approaching Romans.
(14) 1675BC-The Roman warrior calls up the reserves after sighting our fortified warriors' campfire smoke (those regular troops just don't have good enough training) and a regular warrior joins him.
(15) 1650BC-The veteran Roman warrior attacks our veteran warrior and dies just in the nick of time. The regular Roman warrior (again, not well trained) sees this and tries to flee into our lands, but he leaves himself out in the open plains. Our regular warrior, inspired by his veteran brother, attacks and kills the Roman warrior.
(16) 1625BC-Tokyo hears of our victories and sends off their just-trained horseman to join the frontline troops, the training of another horseman commences immediately. Our regular warrior joins our veteran in the forest and claims that he learned a lesson, no more fires! Both warriors are cheered by the sounds of an approaching Japanese horseman.
(17) 1600BC-Kyoto completes training of a horseman and decides that we need to settle more of our great lands so they begin to form a settler party. Edo finishes the training of their worker and starts a setter party. Munith completes construction of their barracks and decides that they should train a warrior to defend our new cities. The Kyoto horseman heads off following the tracks of the Tokyo horseman.
(18) 1575BC-After completing their research of bronze working our researchers waste much time arguing about what they should research next. Their argument is quickly ended by the booming demands of our military advisor. As they hurry back to the lab, one scientist is heard saying to another, "You don't really think he would send us to the front if we don't discover the secrets of forming this shiny metal within 15 hits of the the return button do you?" The people of Munith hear of the outburst of our military advisor and decide that they better change their training from a warrior to a spearman, they don't want to have a visit from that guy. Our first horseman joins the two warriors in their forest foritification to discuss battle plans.
(19) 1550BC-Our fortified troops have to change their battle plans due to the approaching sounds of more horsemen. The regular warrior is taken out back after being caught with a flame to the old battle plans. Word is sent back to headquarters to no longer send any less than veteran trained troops to the front.
(20) 1525BC-Satsuma completes their training of the worker and begin construction of a barracks. Osaka completes the building of their temple and they too start construction of a barracks. The word of our military advisor's outburst has traveled throughout our lands, it appears.

Our leader, in a restless night of sleep due our lack of research, dreams of a concoction of barley and hops. In the morning he wonders off in search of these magical plants with the knowledge that the military advisor will keep things in line until he returns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/LK21-1525BC.zip
 
LKendter
Arizona_Steve
Readylander
Rowain deWolf (playing) <<<
Dark Sheer (on deck)

It begins! We better start getting more military.
 
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