LK68 - More AWE -

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823
Grimjack
Meldor (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[meldor]

350 BC (0)
Not much to do. Give Calakmul a taxman to rpevent rioting.
(I)The legion and archer advance. Palenque Horse->Spear. Calakmul Cat->Cat.

330 BC (1)
Move new horse to shadow Carthage Galley. I shift one cat and the new cat towards the west to help with the coming Romans. I would suspect that there are more behind these.
(I)They advance again. We get a second AC.

310 BC (2)
Our cats at Kaminaljuyu go 1/3 but we take the city back and I install 3 JT and a Horse to guard it. It starts building walls. We continue to retreat while waiting for cats in the west.
(I)The Romans shift east. I wonder if they are after the choke again. Tikal Horse->Spear

290 BC (3)
I go ahead and move the three cats and remaining JT into the choke city. I move units up in the west to strike next turn.
(I) Interestingly the Legion and Archer split. Copan JT->Spear

270 BC (4)
Always give the elite guy the right job. Our elite AC attacks the Legionary and he goes down to 1hp before victory and producing our first Leader. An army is of course the first order of business (Lee keeps me around just for the luck). A JT takes out the archer but also reveals one Spear and 3 Legioary behind it. He takes a slave, but the slave might live longer than he does.
(I) Our JT does indeed pay the ultimate sacrifice. There are now five Legionary in the area. Palenque Spear->Settler

250 BC (5)
Our cats in the west go 1/2 and an AC takes out the Spear. We will leave th ehurt Legionary for now. I get to drop science to nothing and still Poly in 1.
(I) The Legions advance. Copan Spear->Spear. Tikal Spear->Spear.

230 BC (6)
Our tow cats both hit, red-lining the lone Legionary and putting a point on one of the stack of four.
(I)We lose two JT to counters. The FP finishes and we get another AC. The Germans complete the Temple of Artemis and the Mongols complete the Hanging Gardens.

210 BC (7)
We take out two Legionary and there are two left.
(I) Carthage complete the Great Wall and the Greeks finish the Mausoleum.

190 BC (8)
We take out one of the two remaining Legion.
(I)Our AC holds off an attack by the last Legion and goes elite. Guess he will have to make his own army. The second AC is added to the army.

170 BC (9)
We retreat to heal in the west.
(I) Three legion and an archer show up outside the choke. Spears are on the way. Remember to attack them first.

150 BC (10)
There are two AC in the army and it is healed. It can reach the choke in time to help.
I focused mainly on defense and getting some more settlers. We need to fill in the land between us and the Romans. I also completed several Cats. We need a lot more of them.

The Great Library is due in six. I hope we get it.




http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK68_150BC.zip

 

[LKendter]

An army is of course the first order of business (Lee keeps me around just for the luck).

The second AC is added to the army.

Next army - how about a JT army? We can still get free workers from it. One thing I want to do different this game is pillage the Romans to death. That was a key early mistake from last game. Pillaging is the fastest way to slow the AI down. What would Rome be like without Iron? Lot's of easy archers to kill for workers.

The Great Library is due in six. I hope we get it.

I will be impatient to see the next turn. We have already had awesome luck with wonders getting the Pyramids with agricultural. Growth is very easy for our civ. Zeus will help with all these nasty 3 point defenders, and I would love cash to rush some things like walls along the front thanks to the Great Library.

====================================

LKendter (on deck)
hotrod0823
Grimjack
Meldor
Greebley (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[Grimjack]

It is an exciting race when the wonders start to fall out. We cannot even get a consolation price now from what I read.

on the army. I also would like to see a Javelin army. It will continue to grab slaves for a long time.

Grimjack

 

[meldor]

I gave serious thought to a JT army, but the first priority was to be able to hit some of those Legionaire stacks.

 

[Greebley]

I also like the speed of the ACav army. It pillages 50% faster. If we feel the need for a defensive army, then a Jav army could work. Even then, it is hard to give up the +1 attack and speed. Either one would work for our second army if we get a leader.

I got it. I have time tomorrow to play.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn:
As a side note I have a feeling that the method of city placement I am used to differs from the method we are using. I would have put Piadras Negras one square SW to bring it within 3 of Bonampak for mutual defense and Uaxactun one square NW to bring it to distance 3 of Cakamul. My next city would have been north of the mountains within distance 3 of Yax and Calakumul. Palenque would be a square straight south. In other words a tighter build with cities placed so that units can move from one city to another in a single turn. I have a feeling that this is why Calakmul was so awkwardly placed. I will adjust my thinking on city placement to better match the current method.

Also interesting is the placement of Kaminaljuyu. I would have placed it on the hill; with walls a jav would have defended at 4.5. 4.5 vs 3 being the best odds we can get vs legions. Its current placement is clearly superior in terms of offensively attacking outward. We need a goodly number of cats for that, which I see is already in progress. I defintely agree with Hotrod that we need the army over there. in the meantime.

I change Quirga to a spear as it is vulnerable to attacks from sea at the moment. It will build its harbor after it has 2 defenders.

I also put a Jav on the iron hill to see what the legions do.

IBT: Putting the Jav on the iron caused the legions to retreat back the way they came.

Palenque: Spear->Settler
Yax: Settler->Catapult
Uaxactun: Walls->Harbor It needs a defender, but has no barracks.

130 BC: I think I will leave the eastern blockade for now so we only have to worry about a northern attack. It will free the army to find Roman iron which now heads North. An archer, spear pair is seen.

IBT: Another spear appears.
Copan: Spear->Worker
Tikal: Spear->Settler
We get an ACav

110 BC: Bombard and kill the spear gaining us another worker. Join most recent ACav into the army.
Attack Spear with Jav and win. Attack archer with horse and we retreat.

IBT: Injured Archer attacks healthy horse covering the injured one and we win.

Palenque: Worker->Settler
Bonampak: Settler->Galley
Lazapa: Cat->Spear

90 BC: Build Cuello. All is quiet with the romans. Army is now northmost unit and will start to explore.

IBT: Carthage starts Sun Tzu
Yax: Catapult->Barracks
Calakmul: Cat->Worker

70 BC: Army spots Legion and kills it.

IBT: I get the Heroic Epic Message
Palenque: Settler->Jav
Tikal: Settler->Sword

50 BC: Army kills another legion that is in the way. There are quite a few legions up here. We will be very busy soon. Carthage galley spotted in the SE. We get the GLib next turn.

IBT: We now own the Great Library
Chichen: GLib->Sword
Copan: Settler->Barracks
Piadres Negras: Cat->Worker

30 BC: Army is down 3 hp so takes the round to heal. I am setting things up to deal with the Legions that the army didn't attack. I am undecided on whether to continue Monarchy research. Only one of the known civs knows it. It is still several turns away for us to get however (7 turns). I will decide next turn after we get the techs from the GLib.

IBT: The great library gives us every tech in the ancient era except Monarchy and no Medieval techs. Carthage has Feudalism, Mono, and Monarchy, but not Engineering.

Research time in Monarchy jumped from 7 turns to 18 turns. Did switching eras throw away our current reseach in Monarchy? Is this a bug? In any case, I turn off research. No point now.

10 BC: Our cats go 0-4 on the first legion. It is only regular so I decide to attack it with our elite ACav. We get a leader!
Build Tulum
Build Coba

Army heads onward leaving our main forces to deal with the incoming Roman units. Leader heads toward a town.

IBT:
Chichen: Sword->Market
Quirigua: Spear->Galley
Calakmul: Worker->Cat
Lazapa: Spear->Spear (need MP & defense still)

10 AD: The choice between rushing the Heroic Epic and another army with the leader is not easy. I go for the Army due to the large influx of Legions in the near future and my decision to send the ACav army onward looking for the iron to pull the plug on further legions. I also debate market vs Heroic Epic in Chichen and decide on Market

Found Two Whales
Found Uxmal

IBT:
Tikal: Sword->Aquaduct
Bonampak: Galley->Galley

30 AD: Decide to send the Galley W to go off the coast rather than E. E is more likely to meet civs that can get to us. The next boat can try E if we so decide. Make a Jav army for defense.

IBT: I somehow missed the fact that Lazapa was going to riot. Carthage starts the Knights templar. We really want to meet another civ soon!

Copan: Barracks->Jav. (Need more Jav after the Army absorbed 3).
Palenque: Jav->Jav
Yax: Barracks->Aquaduct

50 AD: I switch Lagarto to a Harbor. It needs one to continue growing
Build Mayapan

Notes:

We need to meet another civ ASAP and have only 1 boat so far. Unfortunately, we do not have many coastal cities with decent shield output.

The army was heading toward Roman land, but since Carthage started the knight templar, it might be better to head it south as knights are a greater threat than legions.

Comments on town placement are welcome. I feel unity of purpose is more important than any particular method (I feel that this unity is one of the main values of dot maps).

I haven't seen a single unit to the east since putting the javalin on the iron. That may change since Carthage has knights now. Carthage is also threatening our southerns shores with boats. The turns were quiet which was very nice in terms of building our empire.

If we do meet other civs we may get invention. More Jav before then might be useful.

Lee, I suspect you will see more action than I did, but I think/hope we are ready for it. Carthage is my biggest concern.

 

[Greebley]

Here is a picture of our lands and our current forces. We have about 9 Roman Workers that are not listed. (Rome also has 9 of ours as well that we may capture back some day).

 

[LKendter]

We get more good news. The Great Library is ours and a second army. We have cash to rush with and / or upgrade units. However, I won't upgrade our precious JTs. We still need plenty more workers.

================

Feast or famine continues. I finished LK69 this morning, this one comes up, and the monster LK65 also arrives.

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
hotrod0823 (on deck)
Grimjack
Meldor
Greebley

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[LKendter]

Also interesting is the placement of Kaminaljuyu. I would have placed it on the hill; with walls a JT would have defended at 4.5. 4.5 vs. 3 being the best odds we can get vs. legions. Its current placement is clearly superior in terms of offensively attacking outward.

This city also gives us a backup source of Iron. I have seen very little resource depletions recently, but I still know they happen. The current location makes it a lot easy to stop the units from going on the mountain.


50 AD
I don't know how much longer we will be allowed to build JTs. I swap the some builds to JT.
(IT) Carthage ignores our galley?


70 AD
We bomb a regular spear down to 1 hp, our regular JT attacks and goes veteran.

I can't tell if our army in Rome was on a pillaging campaign, but I start it on one. Slowing down Roman production will help us a lot.
(IT) I never argue with another AC.


110 AD
Well Rome decides to send a decent stack our way - 3 legs and 1 archer. Of course, they come into range of our rock throwers. Our JT army attacks, one unit of it promotes and we get two workers. Our AC kills the other leg, but I leave the archer. I don't want to expose any units to the next 3 legs coming up.


130 AD
Our JT army fights a demonic leg dropping it to 3 hp. However, another unit promoted, and we got another worker. If it wasn't for the catapults, I probably would have lost the army.

I pillage a Roman iron source, but they must have another. They still have a source of iron.
(IT) Our galley dies just as we can see what looks like a Greek border.


150 AD
I pillage the only Roman fur source. Now that has to hurt Rome.


190 AD
I have located Rome, and begin to pillage it.


210 AD
(IT) The leg stack hits our units guarding the workers, wins and steals the 2 workers already their. They even get the new worker generated for a total of three workers.


230 AD
I recover the workers. I clear out the 3 legions in the area, but lost a horseman. The stack of legs has finally thinned out. Now will it stay clear until more troops arrive?
(IT) Carthage completes the Lighthouse.


250 AD
We get a bonus during the pillaging campaign a kill a Roman worker.


Summary:

Signed up:
LKendter
hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Grimjack (on deck)
Meldor
Greebley

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK68-250AD.zip

 

[LKendter]

For any who doubts the value of a pillaging campaign, check the below out. The below yellow line shows path of damage I did in just 10 turns.

 

[meldor]

We haven't seen any ground units appear from Carthage, they must therefore be on another island. We need to contact another Civ. I would only worry about Carthage dropping units off. We need to keep a few AC back to handle any drop offs.

 

[Greebley]

Our empire is starting to look pretty strong. Pillaging the Romans should slow them down enough for us to go on the offensive fairly soon - especially if Carthage is not on our island as Meldor suggests and I think he is likely to be correct, though it is also possible they don't want to attack our choke city as it is too well defended.

I think we should contact the Greeks. It means more invasions, but we need Monarchy sooner rather than later. We have one galley in 3 turns. Will that be enough? It will take time to get there and may sink again.

I have been noticing in my Conquest games that galleys seem safe from enemy attack until frigates appear and even then the frigates are often tied up with escorting galleons. I have been getting less and less afraid of sending out boats within enemy reach of enemy stacks.

 

[hotrod0823]

I see it and will play as soon as I finish the 5CC game. It has it the long bombing period

 

[Grimjack]

Looks like we have secured our own island quite satisfactory.
Any chance of saving next army for an early pillaging campaign on the other continent ?
( Or, lacking other targets, will the apparent immunity of armies vanish ? )

Grimjack

 

[meldor]

It is never too early to establish a beachhead on the other land mass. It gives the other Civs a target to expend all of their military on. A big stack of the best defenders and an army to play clean-up would be great. Not to mention all the leader fishing that comes with it. I would recommend that we not build defensive armies until muskets at least, rifles prefered.

 

[Greebley]

Usually pillaging armies are not attacked even alone on the other continent in my experience. Obviously this is not always true (I was reading the 20K game (LK69?) for example), but I think in that case it had to do with Mayan complete ownership of the island with the fall of Thebes.

In any case, I think we should try to pillage Carthage and remove their knight building potential if possible. Establishing a beach-head is a good idea if we think we have the troops. It should lessen the number of units landing in our lands (which I suspect will start up soon), and pretty much guarantee safety of armies with high enough defense (2+).

As a side note: I was playing with the LK69 save to see if I could figure out why the armies were attacked. When I played it, Thebes fell two turns later; and the attack on the armies was also delayed two turns to occur right after the fall. My suspicion is that when an AI owns an island exclusively they will attack any intruders even if they are armies.

I do know that Armies in towns will be attacked.

[Edit: Since a galley will only hold an army with a single unit, it would useful to find a mountain to land on or some spot out of reach from enemy attack on the first round before we form the army. We will probably want to explore the coast a bit to see if we can find such a spot. It might also be a good beach-head spot; though mountains are bad for Trebuchets.

 

[hotrod0823]

Grimjack is it too late to swap? I haven't started yet and the 5CC is overdue as well. I'm in serious feast mode and had a long day at work and will not be able to play effectively tonight.

Sorry for the delay.

Hotrod

 

[Grimjack]

I can play tonight in about 10 hours. I suspect I can finish by tonight as well, as wife is out making town unsecure.

Got it.
Grimjack

 

[Grimjack]

LK68, Securing our Continent.

250AD Familiarize myself, rereading reports.

Make only minor change to prevent riots in a city, and note that troops will be scarce for a while, since we are in a market push.

260AD I lose two slave workers turn, as I mistakenly believe one native and two slaves could road in one turn.
Instead of following my first thought, after some reflection I use our pillaging army for just that, pillaging instead of risking it against legion defended cities.
I also lob some rocks to small effect against a stack of three legions who are hiding in the jungles to our north. Our jav army takes out the top one, preparing for a more deadly bombardment next turn.

Give Copan a taxman as well, since it grew this turn. I am hesitant to use lux 40%. The taxman could not do much of anything for a while, as I need to improve our core much more if I want him to do meaningful work.

IBT: Get Monarchy from the Library, and I am fairly certain I will revolt immediately. An Aqueduct completes, and I start a jav-thrower.
We get another Cartage galley incoming from the west.

270Ad This time our rock lobbers have gotten the aim right, and we have three redlined legions waiting to get to know our cavalry. ( Had they been on the plains, I would have used our javeliners, but they are in the jungle, so of course it is better to use cavalry..... )
Find the roman iron underneath Pompeii. Sigh. I will pillage all access to that city, but I fear it will be able to continue to produce legions for the foreseeable future.

A horseman scout finds some dyes in the jungles to our northeast, and I suspect our next expansion wave will have to seriously consider this spot.

I whip two temples and revolt into MOnarchy.

Thats not nice. I draw a SEVEN turn anarchy. I will have to go to great lengths to avoid starvation in at least three cities. I had hoped we would be safe, when all cities could manage five turns.

IBT: Romans comes and beg for peace. Yet Another Cartage Galley ( YACG) comes from the north. They seem to have surrounded us.

280 Bomb ye olde Stack of Legions in the red jungle, and kill the top one. I cause riots in the two cities that would have starved.

290 The galley dumps a mercenary and a warrior. It is under control. Yet more legions enters the red jungle.
I kill off the top three Legions, netting one worker and no promotions. I leave the bottom one to lure in his friends.
Move defenders to repel the Carthage troops, waiting for a cat to help defeat them should they stay still.

IBT: A Roman galley drops of a legion near Cuello, beside the Carthage invaders. The Carthage invaders move away to make room for the legion.

300Ad Our cat miss the legions as they are hiding in the woods, and I reinforce Cuello rather than attack with the 6 HP Cavalry I have on top.

IBT: Our four HP cavalry gets some help from the ashamed catapultiers, and manage to repel the invading legion while losing four Hit points.

310 Bombing is abysmal, and roman troops actually reach the grasslands beyond the red jungle. They are cleared, but next turn will be harder as more legions will reach the grasslands.

IBT: The initial cartage forces seems to be headin northwards reinforcing a new Cartage city. Two more mercenaries are dropped off near Palenque though, and I need to pull defenders back.
Two legions escape the red jungle and enters what is soon to become the red plains.

320 The great thing about the red plains is that the metalmen is much easier to hit there, and we soon have three redlined legions crawling about. Unfortunately we also have three green legions in the red jungle I cannot do much about.
I finally get the promotion I so much have deserved after all my work. Next legion doesn't give a promotion, but a slave is not something I have anything against.
There is not much mm to do during Anarchy....

IBT: We get two more guests at the red plains, while one dinged one remains in the red jungle. Ps, I ever told how much I like that our armies can see two tiles into the jungle. It makes it easier to make a clean sweep of our red jungle, and perhaps start to advance a bit.
Hmm, the next set of Carthage mercenaries are also taking the scenic coastal road northwards. I have no idea what they are up to.

330Ad I clean up the red plains as well as the red jungle, and we have no romans near our borders any longer. I wonder briefly if one more turn of anarchy means we are monarchs next turn, as magasines of food are starting to get really empty.
I chance that it is, and avoid riots.

IBT: I was right in my guess, and we are now a monarch. All hail the king. The Cartage invaders avoid the coastline, and move towards the red plains. I will have to make a red grass up there.

340AD I start to pull back the pillaging army, as I intend to use it in the next offense that ought to happen as soon as our market push is done.
This turn took almost as long as the entire anarchy, and I didn't even do any fighting.

IBT: A regular warrior meets the expected fate as he attacks a fortified elite cavalry in a city with a catapult.
We complete our first galley. I will leave it with movement, as I do not know what it was supposed to do.
Cartage starts Leos. And Sistines. And they complete KNights Templar. I had hoped for that one.

350AD Todays elite battle is against a mercenary, but he wont give us leaders either, and the search has to be handed over to the next player.

Copan is difficult to MM. We can shave a turn off of the market by moving the fishermen to the forest, but for some reason the Copaners really like fish, and they will threaten to riot.
Cartage likes to drop troops of north of Palenque, and then travel northwards along the coast until they reach Maya..., Just shadow them with our cavalry and a cat or two.
The romans are likely to enter what I called the red jungle. We have lots of Cats there, and also a couple of spare cats in Maya... I have not used the javeliners even against redlined legions in the jungle, but only if they actually reaches the plains.

I leave movement on the galley, so you can decide if we explore northwards or southwards, or save it for transporting an army to the other continent.
We need contacts soon, or we are likely to miss out on the medieval wonders.

Grimjack
350AD