LK74 - Sid, Civ = TDB
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
hotrod0823
Deity
Oh I remember that game well. It was brutal to try and get temples/libraries and at the same time try and fight a dog pile war in a suppossed "peaceful" 100K culture game.
I am sure we all learned a little in that game.
I am sure we all learned a little in that game.
akots
Poet
Preturn check. Well, I would say that food is really scarce on the start since with only 6 cities in 1250BC, it would be really tough even on lower levels not talking about Sid. It ought to be something around 10 or 12 at 1000BC to make decent start. But we have to play what we have, right? We are also terribly short on workers as well. We also have all contacts which is good. Madras for some reason has been working the sugar cane tile and not making this shield to the bin due to corruption, so switched to fish for one extra commerce. Bombay is working the silk forest and will grow in 5 turns (with Granary empty) but if switched to unroaded glassland for growth in 4 turns acquires an unhappy citizen which means a need for extra MP. Hence, warior from Delhi starts moving there for MP duty. And somehow we are playing with re-negotiate deals and cancel orders for friendly units flags on. And governor is not set to emphasize production. Also, it is not very clear where the settler is moving. We were supposed to secure the iron first by settling another city near to it? But the settler is headed apparently to blue-dot-2 location? Also, our worker is roading an unchopped forest for some unknown reason. Lahore switched to worker and Bangalore is set for a tax collector but can build warrior instead for MP, but worker would be ready next turn, so may be it is OK though highly undesirable IMO. SO much for the growth. IMO, the game is screwed really badly for us. Byzantines have iron, Persia does not have iron or horses, Inca have horses but no iron, Hittites have iron but have no horses, Maya have horses but no iron for them. This might change, may be their resource is remote and not hooked up yet. So, no 3-man chariot for now to hide from for us. There are 2 mayan spearmen-settler duets in Hittite territory. And they are heading apparently our way. This is not good at all. Finally, hit Enter.
IBT. Our warrior is kicked out by Hittites. No surprise there. Bangalore finished worker started on warrior, some wonders started.
[1] 1225BC. Really, that settler should have traveled to the green dot. But alas, he goes to blue-dot-2. MP arrive to Bombay and the citizen goes to grassland instead of silk forest. It would be good if this grassland would have been mined. But this worker is roading a forest in no-mans'-land. And just curious, why the grassland tile near Dehli has be irrigated? Is this a joke or what? Really, don't know, may be start a new game?
IBT. Mursilis comes and asks for 20g which are promptly found and paid in hard cash. Dehli starts on settler but may go for Temple of even barracks.
[2] 1200BC. Hittite settler/warrior just arrived in the vicinity of the orange dot.
[3] 1175BC. Dehli will grow in 4 turns and might finish the settler in the same 4 turns.
IBT. Inca complete the Lighthouse.
[4] 1150BC. Bizantines have pikemen. Bombay hits size 5 and will grow in 4 turns making settler that very same time.
[5] 1125BC. All quiet.
IBT. Lahore worker-temple (??).
[6] 1100BC. Nothing special.
[7] 1075BC. Karachi founded, set to worker. We can trade all our gold and gpt for Warrior Code.
IBT. Hittie settler/spear pair heads to our choke point. Green dot with horses and nearby wheat is settled by Byzantines.
Delhi settler - > warrior, Bombay settler - settler, Calcutta warrior - temple (??). Inca establish embassy with us.
[8] 1050BC. Settler from Delhi heads to some place near wheat and settler from Bombay heads to white dot if AI permits
. Due to all these builds our income dropped from 9 gpt to 3 gpt. Good thing we can low down luxury rate to zero netting 4gpt. And Cuzco is size 12 city btw.
IBT. Hittite warrior advances to the hill near Bangalore.
[9] 1025BC. We have a warrior dispacthed to Karachi but he is 1 turn short to reach the city and try to defend it should Hittites attack. Warrior build in Bangalore is still 2 turns away and there is nothing to whip a units with since it is size 1. Give Mursilis 1 gpt, may be this will stop him.
IBT. Did not work, the undefended city might be too large temptation for AI. I should have changed that build there from worker to warrior on the first inherited turn.
[10] 1000BC. Don't really know what to do. Bombay has been switched from two irrigated plains to two silk forests for growth still in 2 but some extra gpt. Dehli switched from mined BG to irrigated horses for extra commerce and still warrior ready in 1 turn. We can probably afford to buy a tech from Mursilis. We have also an option to attack his warrior with ours. It would still be war but we don't lose the city. While if he attacks, we lose the city and still there would be war. Mursilis is at war with Inca btw, so we then can try to seek their help in our struggle for survival. There is also a worker near Bombay with a movement left. He can be used either to chop a forest on silks or start to build a road to white-dot-city.
IMO, if Mursilis attacks, the game might be lost. So far to the discussion about undefended cities we had with Greebley
IBT. Our warrior is kicked out by Hittites. No surprise there. Bangalore finished worker started on warrior, some wonders started.
[1] 1225BC. Really, that settler should have traveled to the green dot. But alas, he goes to blue-dot-2. MP arrive to Bombay and the citizen goes to grassland instead of silk forest. It would be good if this grassland would have been mined. But this worker is roading a forest in no-mans'-land. And just curious, why the grassland tile near Dehli has be irrigated? Is this a joke or what? Really, don't know, may be start a new game?
IBT. Mursilis comes and asks for 20g which are promptly found and paid in hard cash. Dehli starts on settler but may go for Temple of even barracks.
[2] 1200BC. Hittite settler/warrior just arrived in the vicinity of the orange dot.
[3] 1175BC. Dehli will grow in 4 turns and might finish the settler in the same 4 turns.
IBT. Inca complete the Lighthouse.
[4] 1150BC. Bizantines have pikemen. Bombay hits size 5 and will grow in 4 turns making settler that very same time.
[5] 1125BC. All quiet.
IBT. Lahore worker-temple (??).
[6] 1100BC. Nothing special.
[7] 1075BC. Karachi founded, set to worker. We can trade all our gold and gpt for Warrior Code.
IBT. Hittie settler/spear pair heads to our choke point. Green dot with horses and nearby wheat is settled by Byzantines.
Delhi settler - > warrior, Bombay settler - settler, Calcutta warrior - temple (??). Inca establish embassy with us.[8] 1050BC. Settler from Delhi heads to some place near wheat and settler from Bombay heads to white dot if AI permits
. Due to all these builds our income dropped from 9 gpt to 3 gpt. Good thing we can low down luxury rate to zero netting 4gpt. And Cuzco is size 12 city btw.IBT. Hittite warrior advances to the hill near Bangalore.
[9] 1025BC. We have a warrior dispacthed to Karachi but he is 1 turn short to reach the city and try to defend it should Hittites attack. Warrior build in Bangalore is still 2 turns away and there is nothing to whip a units with since it is size 1. Give Mursilis 1 gpt, may be this will stop him.
IBT. Did not work, the undefended city might be too large temptation for AI. I should have changed that build there from worker to warrior on the first inherited turn.
[10] 1000BC. Don't really know what to do. Bombay has been switched from two irrigated plains to two silk forests for growth still in 2 but some extra gpt. Dehli switched from mined BG to irrigated horses for extra commerce and still warrior ready in 1 turn. We can probably afford to buy a tech from Mursilis. We have also an option to attack his warrior with ours. It would still be war but we don't lose the city. While if he attacks, we lose the city and still there would be war. Mursilis is at war with Inca btw, so we then can try to seek their help in our struggle for survival. There is also a worker near Bombay with a movement left. He can be used either to chop a forest on silks or start to build a road to white-dot-city.
IMO, if Mursilis attacks, the game might be lost. So far to the discussion about undefended cities we had with Greebley
akots
Poet
Here is the warrior issue in color
hotrod0823
Deity
Thanks for putting winning or losing this game on a choice I made to get water down to Madras (edit: this actually is a mistake because there is access to the river 1 tile south of that grass, mis-read the map) and to get the iron town hooked up as soon as possible without a chop first that would give 10 shields that would only serve to mess up an kind of settler/warrior cycle.
If you think so highly of my play then perhaps I should just step aside and allow you experts to play alone. I don't want an unused irrigated grassland to muck up your perfect game.
Hotrod
akots
Poet
Nobody is perfect, you know this.
But apparently, this game has been really messed up. IMvHO, these things are so simple and so easy to do them right, I'm always wondering why people are doing them wrong so often? Including myself.
But apparently, this game has been really messed up. IMvHO, these things are so simple and so easy to do them right, I'm always wondering why people are doing them wrong so often? Including myself.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
I never use the Governor's. IMO they suck. I don't want governor's used.
---------------------------
Lack of food bonus at +5 has killed us. We have several very awkward cities for growth. Those I am not sure what specifically caused this comment.
---------------------------
Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Danz
Hotrod0823
Akots
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.
This was a very tough start on a very hard level, no doubt about it. But let's just play on and see what happens.
Although I have to agree with LK's opinion of the governor. We are so small and so powerless, it's not a big deal to MM every citizen and every unit every single turn of te game. One of the bright sides of being so puny
Although I have to agree with LK's opinion of the governor. We are so small and so powerless, it's not a big deal to MM every citizen and every unit every single turn of te game. One of the bright sides of being so puny
Bah! The game is going fine.
Saying how many towns you should get by 1000BC is meaningless. It totally depends on the amount of food resources at start. Also to maximize the number of cities you need to build a granary first which can be a disaster given a different lay out at SID. Also, with a food poor start you will always be short on workers. I think your expectations of where the game should be is totally unrealistic. Even if everyone had played perfectly, we would be a little stronger than we are now but not by enough to make any real difference.
Besides the human advantage is not perfect MM, it is the ability to form overall strategies that are superior to the AI's.
The hittite could attack. Blocking a choke point is one of the things that can make an AI attack. I knew an attack on the choke was possible, but in that case I was expecting the choke itself would be attacked, but maybe they would go for an empty town first? We will see next turn I guess.
I am pretty sure you can't stop an AI attacking by giving it money. Once they make up their mind there is nothing you can do.
Lee, I don't think empasize production is turning governors on; I think it is used to determine which square the AI will choose when a town grows. Emphasize production will mean it choose the forest rather than a grassland.
Saying how many towns you should get by 1000BC is meaningless. It totally depends on the amount of food resources at start. Also to maximize the number of cities you need to build a granary first which can be a disaster given a different lay out at SID. Also, with a food poor start you will always be short on workers. I think your expectations of where the game should be is totally unrealistic. Even if everyone had played perfectly, we would be a little stronger than we are now but not by enough to make any real difference.
Besides the human advantage is not perfect MM, it is the ability to form overall strategies that are superior to the AI's.
The hittite could attack. Blocking a choke point is one of the things that can make an AI attack. I knew an attack on the choke was possible, but in that case I was expecting the choke itself would be attacked, but maybe they would go for an empty town first? We will see next turn I guess.
I am pretty sure you can't stop an AI attacking by giving it money. Once they make up their mind there is nothing you can do.
Lee, I don't think empasize production is turning governors on; I think it is used to determine which square the AI will choose when a town grows. Emphasize production will mean it choose the forest rather than a grassland.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
This is very true. I had a game with Japan looked on a clear attack vector. I *allied* with them against another Civ. 3 turns later the stack on a clear attack vector still crossed my borders and started a war.
akots
Poet
Setting the governor to emphasize production only determines that a new citizen added for growth is added to a maximal shield tile not somewhere else. After production is added, you can put him anywhere else.
@Greebley. The choke has not been blocked. I'll refrain from commentng on "overall strategies" though.
@Greebley. The choke has not been blocked. I'll refrain from commentng on "overall strategies" though.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
1000 BC
(IT) The Maya demand and get $20.
Persia has already completed Sun Tzu.
975 BC
The Maya and Inca sign a peace treaty.
(IT) Knights Templar is being built. The tech pace is more intense that I even expected.
950 BC
Kolhapur is formed. This was the green dot.
Jaipur is formed. This was the white dot.
I disband the exploring warrior near Persia. There is no sense in keeping a trapped unit.
900 BC
I ship the Inca $13/turn and $42 and purchase Writing. We still need another to techs to get toward Republic.
(IT) The Byzantine complete the Sistine Chapel and Statue of Zeus. The number one culture civ gets another 2 wonders.
825 BC
(IT) The Inca want us to commit suicide by allying with them vs. the Hittites.
Summary:
I am doing a big temple push as we want to our borders. The bad news is after that we have nothing more to build except out of date military.
Right now Bombay looks like the most shields to build the FP. We really need to improve our economy if we ever hope to get out of our tech hole.
We now have cardboard cutouts in all of are cities.
Yellow dot is where the settler is heading. It has horrid overlap with our other cities, but it is the only spot that will let us claim for land.
=====================================
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (currently playing)
Danz (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Akots
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK74-750BC.zip
(IT) The Maya demand and get $20.
Persia has already completed Sun Tzu.
975 BC
The Maya and Inca sign a peace treaty.
(IT) Knights Templar is being built. The tech pace is more intense that I even expected.
950 BC
Kolhapur is formed. This was the green dot.
Jaipur is formed. This was the white dot.
I disband the exploring warrior near Persia. There is no sense in keeping a trapped unit.
900 BC
I ship the Inca $13/turn and $42 and purchase Writing. We still need another to techs to get toward Republic.
(IT) The Byzantine complete the Sistine Chapel and Statue of Zeus. The number one culture civ gets another 2 wonders.
825 BC
(IT) The Inca want us to commit suicide by allying with them vs. the Hittites.
Summary:
I am doing a big temple push as we want to our borders. The bad news is after that we have nothing more to build except out of date military.
Right now Bombay looks like the most shields to build the FP. We really need to improve our economy if we ever hope to get out of our tech hole.
We now have cardboard cutouts in all of are cities.
Yellow dot is where the settler is heading. It has horrid overlap with our other cities, but it is the only spot that will let us claim for land.
=====================================
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (currently playing)
Danz (on deck)
Hotrod0823
Akots
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK74-750BC.zip
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
danz said:
Why worry about the chariots? They ain't getting across those mountains and through those jungles any time soon in any sort of numbers. Hell, in their cities in front of the jungle, there are no Hittite horsies, so as far as chariots are concerned you are safe
Remember that all chariots are wheeled and that means they cannot go into mountains or jungles unless a road has been built there
Good point on the Chariots. I tend to forget that. Still don't want to go to war - at least not yet.
Lee, If we place the town to the SW of your dot we get 3 more land squares in our empire and no overlap. I think that would be a net win even though it is closer to Karachi.
[Edit: Actually on 2 more gained as we lose out on one square as well. ]
Lee, If we place the town to the SW of your dot we get 3 more land squares in our empire and no overlap. I think that would be a net win even though it is closer to Karachi.
[Edit: Actually on 2 more gained as we lose out on one square as well. ]
Early: The Knights Templar is completed by the Byzantines, and the Persians switch to the Glib. I whip the slower temples when they are at 20 shields.
Mid: Persepolis finishes the GLib (Persia). The Persians also demand 20 gold
AI's all switch to Leo's
Byzantines demand 22 gold. We aren't even saving up enough cash for a tech this way...
Late: Not the worlds most exciting turn. I watch a Byzantine Archer kill a Hittite one.
Notes:
I am connecting the iron. I am hoping we can take advantage of the fact that the Hittites are at war at some point.
I would go for currency as fast a possible. We need to get our income up - and then Republic.
I started the FP. Do we want to continue it? I say yes; getting it early is more important than which town for this set up.
Mid: Persepolis finishes the GLib (Persia). The Persians also demand 20 gold
AI's all switch to Leo's
Byzantines demand 22 gold. We aren't even saving up enough cash for a tech this way...
Late: Not the worlds most exciting turn. I watch a Byzantine Archer kill a Hittite one.
Notes:
I am connecting the iron. I am hoping we can take advantage of the fact that the Hittites are at war at some point.
I would go for currency as fast a possible. We need to get our income up - and then Republic.
I started the FP. Do we want to continue it? I say yes; getting it early is more important than which town for this set up.
Here is our current map of our empire:
Got it.
Any thoughts about what we should do if it comes to war? Not that I want to start one, but the world is settled, we have almost no culture, we are scientifically ********, and miliarily weak. So someone will eventually not be satisfied with a mere 20G.
I'm thinking, it wouldn't hurt to build a few early responders...
Any thoughts about what we should do if it comes to war? Not that I want to start one, but the world is settled, we have almost no culture, we are scientifically ********, and miliarily weak. So someone will eventually not be satisfied with a mere 20G.
I'm thinking, it wouldn't hurt to build a few early responders...
hotrod0823
Deity
I think we need a few swords, ok more than a few. One option is a possible alliance with our close neighbors in a war vs the Byzantines. It will put the Hittites as a buffer vs any land based attacks and allow us to expel those red towns from our niche of land.
We will need lots of swords to do this effectively and be able to ride out the storm of units for 20 turns. Maybe just maybe we can pointy stick some techs out of the deal.
Just some thoughts
Hotrod
We will need lots of swords to do this effectively and be able to ride out the storm of units for 20 turns. Maybe just maybe we can pointy stick some techs out of the deal.
Just some thoughts
Hotrod
