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Lo5 01 - The Puppetmaster

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LawOfFives, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Anar

    Anar Chieftain

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    IMO we should wait for republic since we won't be waging any/a lot of wars. Going into monarchy and then republic is out of question. We can easily be the tech leaders using republic and our scientific trait, which might help Spain in further warfare. So monarchy should not attract our attention at all (I guess no one considered building HG ;)

    Blue dot or tile NW from it.. both seem good.

    I think we should start a prebuild for FP now.
     
  2. frrosch

    frrosch Chieftain

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    You're right, but I think going to monarchy and then to Democracy could be a plan. That would save us something 'bout 30 turns of research now.

    I totally agree. I think Bursa or Edrine are the only cities that come in question.


    There's now more than 28 hours and still no comment of the lone man, skip?
     
  3. Anar

    Anar Chieftain

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    Well, there's no much difference between democracy and republic. Since we will maintain small military (at least I think we will) democracy won't bring us any vital profit over republic. So I think we should go straight for republic. Suffering two anarchy times on emperor level is something we should avoid.
     
  4. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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  5. frrosch

    frrosch Chieftain

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    ok, so go for republic.
    I think you can play TimBentley, doesn't seem like TheLoneMan want's to do this.
     
  6. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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  7. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    1025(0): no more regular units please, switch Edrine to barracks
    embassy with Spain, screenshot attached
    Spain does not know Celts, not at war with Greece
    sigh...irrigated BGs in despotism

    1000(1): Spain knows construction
    some barbs up north, some archers could be good

    IBT: Giuseppe settler->archer
    Spain starts ToA
    Madrid builds Oracle (SGL)
    Greeks cascade to Pyramids

    975(2): barbs will delay northern settler from settling

    IBT: one dead barb horse

    950(3): and an elite spear should be coming up

    IBT: while losing 2hp and killing 2 horses

    925(4): curragh hoping for survival

    IBT: learn literature
    buy philosophy from Celts for lit, 54g
    still no possibility of buying construction
    Jiri Tmka worker->rax
    Izmit worker->curragh
    Greece establishes embassy
    curragh sinks

    900(5): Greece bought philosophy from Celts
    found Antalya on green dot, start on worker
    start max research on CoL
    switch Selfishville to library (rush in 4 turns?)
    found Konya NW of blue dot, start on worker
    wow, we only have 6.5 workers for 9 cities

    875(6): zzz

    IBT: two more dead barbs
    Giuseppe archer->archer

    850(7): lux to 10%

    825(8): Celts know map making
    spot pink border north of Celts

    IBT: spot injured Celtic archer, with war with pink?
    Edrine riots due to MM losing income
    Aydin worker->rax

    800(9): zzz

    IBT: Celts start Hanging Gardens

    775(10): meet Arabia, they know construction, but lack polytheism, writing (leave trading to next player)
    Greece knows Arabia
    just before Edrine finishes rax I remember to switch it to FP prebuild (we only need 1 more city)

    Notes: Arabia would give construction for writing, polytheism, 167g (we could gift them writing and see what's possible then, but Spain's deal seems better)
    Spain would give construction for literature, philosophy, 4g
    then it looks like Celts would need a little gpt, practically all of our gold and construction for map making
    Chopping a couple of forests to speed up a library for Konya would be good
    It looks like maybe America, Sumeria, or China is to the north
    In case you didn't notice, Great Library in Edrine is FP prebuild
    How nice: Spain is second last in points (only ahead of us) and looks last in power; at least they've got decent culture
     

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  8. TheLoneMan

    TheLoneMan The Original Reindeer

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    Damn, guys... I apologize for not checking the thread, it's been so hectic (just started at a new school, buying books and everything), that it totally slipped my mind. I'll try to be more on top of things next week...
     
  9. Anar

    Anar Chieftain

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    Tim, it seems you uploaded wrong save file. You finished your turn in 775 BC, while the save you uploaded is from 1025 BC.
     
  10. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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  11. pneuma

    pneuma Its not made by MGLs

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Turn 0: 775
    Spain: philosophy + literature + 4g for construction
    The celts have monarchy and map making and not construction, but will not allow any trades
    Giuseppe archer->settler to get the horses

    IBT Bursa granary->settler

    Turn 1: 750
    Workers work, curraghs curragh.

    IBT: Barb horse moves out of that camp near Antalya

    Turn 2: 730
    Move the elite spear in Antalya to intercept
    Science to 4.6.3 to help Bursa
    A chop will go into Selfishville in 8 turns

    IBT: Spear takes 2 damage and wins
    Giuseppe settler->sword

    Turn 3: 710
    E Archer takes 2 damage and disperses the camp near Antalya

    Turn 4: 690
    Nothing interesting

    Turn 5: 670
    Science spending down

    IBT: CoL in, start on republic
    Chop gets in to giuseppe

    Turn 6: 650
    No good trades can be done with CoL even though it is a monopoly tech
    Science to 0.7.3

    IBT: Bursa settler->settler
    Seville library->settler

    Turn 7: 630
    Bursa's settler goes north

    IBT: Giuseppe sword->sword

    Turn 8: 610
    chop into guiseppe in 3

    IBT: Spain demands CoL, doesn't get it. No war, they're still polite.

    Turn 9: 590
    I change my mind regarding the horses city and move it to get the gems in the 1st radius, the horses in the 2nd (which we get free thanks to Konya)

    IBT: Jiri barrack->sword
    Izmit curragh->library
    Konya warrior->library (for the iron)

    Turn 10: 570
    Found Kafa north of the gems, move the parked warrior to garrison.
    When thinking whether to send the new curragh (the HMS Cheeseburgerbeast) I spot some America-blue borders in the fog to the north. Guess where I send it.
    Save-'n'-quit

    A picture and a save
     
  12. Anar

    Anar Chieftain

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    Got it, will play in next 2 hours.
     
  13. Anar

    Anar Chieftain

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    0 turn - 570 BC:
    In Edrine I switch Great Library to Forbidden Palace. In Giuseppe I switch swordsman to library. Deal with Spain: CoL for MM+100gp.
    1 turn - 550 BC:
    Our archer barely wins to barb.
    2 turn - 530 BC:
    Selfishville settler->barracks;
    IBT: our spearman wins to barb
    3 turn - 510 BC:
    nothing
    4 turn - 490 BC:
    Giuseppe library->worker; Salonika is found, and set to build library; barb killed by swordsman. Since Spain is pretty weak I planned a decent (IMO) plot. Sorry, for not consulting it with you but I think we should react ASAP. Greece is backward, while Celts are even more advanced than us so I wanted to make sure none of those techs will go to Greece anytime soon. I declared war on the Celts and allied Greece against them(for construction). Greece have the strongest military, but dont have iron, which means they wont be effective. So I think they wont capture any cities. This way Greece may become even more backward, moreover they will be weakened when the time come for Spain to attack them. I also switched Kafa from warior to library(we need more culture in this town, since it might flip to Greece).
    5 turn - 470 BC:
    Giuseppe worker-> swordsman; Bursa settler->worker;
    6 turn - 450 BC:
    Aydin barracks->library;
    IBT: Alexander demands literature, I decline, no war.
    7 turn - 430 BC:
    Suicidal run of our curragh.
    8 turn - 410 BC:
    Bursa worker->worker. Our curragh succeeds, America is down literature, no worthwhile trades available. Mugla is found.
    9 turn - 390 BC:
    Why is AI so dumb. Just got an annoucement that Spain started building 3 great wonders.
    10 turn - 370 BC:
    nothing

    Production in Salonika and Mugla might be switched to something else.
    Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95852/Lo5_1_370_BC.SAV
     
  14. frrosch

    frrosch Chieftain

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    In fact the spanish are building 4 wonders. D'oh. Anyways, nice idea of the war against celtia. Looks nice.

    I think between Guiseppe, Kafa and Konya is enough space for another city, maybe E-E-SE of Guiseppe. I think we'll have to get some irrigation to these plains, also to the ones around Kafa.
    The settling you did in the north looks good, I think if we have some spare workers we should clear the swamps 3NE of Mugla to found a city there. Another nice city spot is N-N-NW-NW of Salonika.
     
  15. LawOfFives

    LawOfFives Chieftain

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    No problem. Mainly glad to hear you're still interested!

    Lo5
     
  16. LawOfFives

    LawOfFives Chieftain

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    ...and... got it. Will play tonight, deliver tomorrow morning CET.

    Lo5
     
  17. Anar

    Anar Chieftain

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    Settling 3 NE of Mugla is advisible, I thought about it as well. Our priority now is clearing all the jungles and marshes, so we need a lot of workers.
    So what do you think we should do?
    - build workers now (no settlers)
    - workers and settlers as well

    Actually I prefer the first option. Once dealt with jungles we can send some workers to improve Spanish lands.

    It seems we will be in Middleages before Greece, so I think once we obtain feudalism and build some units, we should declare war on Greece and ally Spain against them. To assure Spain won't be crippled we can keep some pikes at their border with Greece.

    What do you think?
     
  18. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    Other than a city in the gap east of Guiseppe, any other cities will be >60% corrupt (after the FP is built), so workers would be a good emphasis. A war with Greece before too long would be good. Convincing the Spanish despot to allow for a republic would also be good (when our despotism is enlightened).
     
  19. LawOfFives

    LawOfFives Chieftain

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    370 BC (pre-flight): I decide that my turnset will be about doing one or two things, and doing them right. Considering just how dang *far* the Celts are from us and how *little* we can do against them or the Greeks in the next roughly 25 turns, I decide that those one or two things will be non-military.

    Jiri Trnka Swordsman->Worker

    Antalya Barracks->Harbor

    Salonika Archer->Harbor

    Bursa mm'ed to finish worker immediately

    Giuseppe takes Swordsman->Temple to make the best of a bad situation (80% overrun on Swordsman), debatable but what the hey. Keep in mind later on that this city can be allowed to grow a bit more than usual (definitely let it exceed size 7 ASAP in republic in any case)

    Barracks in Selfishville accepted with a sigh.

    Konya somethingorother (barracks?)->Settler

    Kafa kept on library, that culture will definitely come in handy

    WHO'S STACKING WORKERS?? Grrr...

    Advice to build 3 NE of Mugla irrelevant for now -- we have a big enough worker shortage as it is without sending off workers to clear marsh in Corruptionland.


    IBT: Bursa finishes worker->worker, Jiri Trnka finishes worker->worker

    350 BC (1): Our worker count's now just over our city count, and we're industrious. We also still have a lot of jungle to clear, though, so I'm still worried.

    Hmm, a settler? Again, 3 NE of Mugla's impossible for several dozen turns in the ideal case. 2 N, 3 NE of Mugla will net us the iron with the help of a library, and it has a built-in grassland so it can start its life by spitting out a 10-turn worker or two. ANY more cities in the north will be as corrupt as hell without some work (connection to capitol, courthouse, Republic) in any case, so we might as well at least get food and workers from the deal...

    Bursa worker->Library -- might as well pick up those fish for our worker farm...

    IBT: Greeks have started Great Library. Awesome! ;-)


    330 BC (2): A road/mine (due S of Selfishville) not adjacent to any roaded space? Grrr...

    Gems roll in, allowing 90% science and a jump of the research time for Republic down by 2 turns. Kudos to the man with the gems plan. (And yes, even I would stack workers on that one.)

    MM Edrine/Selfishville to shave a turn off barracks while still finishing FP on time.

    IBT: Edrine FP->worker


    310 BC (3): Gosh, the barbs are quite adamant about the north belonging to them. Seems we'll need to converse with them a bit.

    MM to give Edrine worker in 1.

    IBT: Chop pushes Konya towards its settler. Edrine worker->worker. Selfishville barracks->horse.


    290 BC (4): Zzz. Edrine switch worker->library. We gonna be da science KINGS babuh :-D

    IBT: Giuseppe temple->horsies. Jiri Trnka worker->horsies. If the player who takes us into war really prefers swords, these'll still come in handy, I think; the horses will still come in handy for controlling the battlefield.


    270 BC (5): 133t archers kill barbs who are squatting our future home. Decide to risk moving in this turn despite lots of camped horsies -- we've got three units, none at less than 4 hp, 2 of 'em are swords, and we're on defensive terrain. New techs to buy -- The Republic (Celts). Grr... they're willing to negotiate, but we're trapped due to reputation. I still agree that this war was a good idea overall, though.

    IBT: Barbarians staved off, Aydin finishes library->aqueduct. Maybe not a good idea, change it if you like.


    250 BC (6): Jim Henson founded amidst the irony taste of the barbarian outback. Anti-barb armied * f o r t i f i e d * there.

    IBT: Celts wanna talk. I wanna keep my promises. Konya settler->barracks. I'd start a granary, but I doubt it'd survive the next turnset anyway. :)


    230 BC (7): MM science to make a quick buck, cause REPUBLIC IS DUE!

    IBT: We discover The Republic. We are revolting. Absolutely. Research set to Currency. Let's bust this joint.


    210 BC (8): Whew, anarchy means no more microing for me this turnset! :band: Skoupa (yet another puppetry-related name) founded... founded... founded a little further east than I should have, I guess. But we'll do all right. Production set to worker. Cities MM'ed as if I'd learned nothing from the Viva la revolucion thread, because really, I didn't. Well, OK, I do play around a little, turning the revolting cities into all-scientists.

    IBT: whew, no starvation.

    190 BC (9): Ooh, a barb isle south of America. (I've been curraghing all the while, BTW, just nothing interesting to report about it is all.) It's curragh-unsafe, though, so I retreat.

    IBT: Unavoidable starvation at Edrine. Sorry folks. And -- holy crap! Anarchy over already! I hadn't even bothered to check yet. We are now a republic, woot! And the Spanish are building the hanging gardens. At this rate, we'll have to go for a 20K win :rolleyes:

    170 BC (10): MM a lot to avoid revolt without raising lux. Anti-barb league attacks, barbs around Jim Henson. What's this?!? The Greeks have founded Rhodes in our holy of holies, the northern peninsula. Good luck to them getting any use out of it, though. Its rapid destruction should be worth a bit of extra profit from peace treaty negotiations, muahaha.

    *No production microing was done to reflect the new situation in Republic,* as Frrosch will have his own opinions on build priorities anyway.

    Oh dear, it's 5 a.m. :-/ Hope y'all'll forgive me, then, for the lack of a screenshot. I'm going to BED thankyouverymuch!

    * * * * * *

    (morning after, and having read Tim's comments)

    I second the sentiment of gifting (at least) Republic to the Spaniards. We might consider pulling the Science Civ Slingshot when we finish Currency (gift Greece up to middle ages, buy his free tech, then sell our now non-matching free tech to partly recoup or even more than recoup the difference). I mean, what's he gonna do, build pikemen? :-D I do realize it's a risk, though, since we'll soon go to war with him. Above all, it means we won't be able to reasonably deal in GPT during the slingshot deal unless we're willing to wait 20 turns for war afterwards.

    ARMY COMPOSITION: Swordsmen will fall like flies to hoplites. Horsies are being built with intention of upgrade only. Med Infs are cheap and a bit earlier than knights. Knights, however, upgrade to Sipahi (sp?)...

    If we wait all the way to Sipahi, then we give a bit more time for buildup, reach our golden age a little earlier (due to not being at war during the run-up), and if it takes at least 20 turns to reach Mil Trad, then we can use GPT in the Scientific Slingshot without risking the loss of income/reputation to the war declaration. We might also be able to use the time to repair our relationship with the Celts, who hopefully will be more than happy to fight the evil Greeks again. :p

    We're gradually becoming more than self-sufficient in terms of workers. The time may soon be ripe for the Spanish RoP-and-send-workers plan.

    POST-EDIT: It's not really awesome that Greece is building the Great Library, since it won't be very useful in this game, only worth a tech at most; with all those library builds in the last two turnsets, we're structured to be a tech leader now, not a follower. Hopefully a cascade will kick him out of it. Otherwise, we can look forward to it as a tourist attraction and that's it. Well, it's a very late start and I'll bet my momma there's a cascade coming up, so the main thing is to ensure that the Greeks have something nice to cascade to. Muahahahahaaa!

    BTW we have libraries in lots of places without the science income to really justify them. We can run a deficit for a while still so they're currenntly at least helping us run it a little faster :), but in the long run we really need to get the cities with them up in commerce. Unfortunately, we also need lots of other things out of said cities. Balancing will be tough.
     

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  20. frrosch

    frrosch Chieftain

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    k, got it, I hope I got all the things right that you said. I'll play this afternoon, after hopefully getting some more comments.

    The celts lost at least 2 cities against the greeks yet, they only got 5 left, so I think they are not a real challenge for the greeks (15 cities) any more. Especially as 3 of the 5 cities are on a small plains/desert peninsula. Maybe they'll even be destroyed soon. I think we can't count on them. Maybe the arabians can take their part in supporting us against the greeks lateron.

    I think a 100K win is more realistic as they are building 5 wonders in 5 cities atm :crazyeye:

    I think we should decide this now. If we wan't to go straight for Sipahi, I would like not to research chivalry and, possibly, monotheism. That would be my preference, as sipahi vs. musketmen is much easier than knights vs. hoplites. It would also give us the possibility of doing gpt trades in our scientific slingshot, which is quite a risk but worth it I think, as researching 5 techs at least will take more than 20 turns, in fact probably 30 turns or even a bit more.
     

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