Longest war?

[Agent327]

I think we're getting off topic...

Who was the Fourth Rome... and who the successor of Carthage?

That's easy: czarist Russia and none. (The successor of Carthage was actually Rome itself: after it salted the earth the city had stood on, Julius Caesar founded a colony there... named Carthage.)

 

[say1988]

Moscow was the third Rome (succeeding Constantinople), and if you look back the five countries given have a claim to the title.
Italy is obvious, ruling from Rome and all.
The Greeks are sometimes considered a successor to the Byzantine Empire as it was Greek.
Turkey has claim through the conquest of the Byzantines and Mehmed claimed the title of Caesar.
Russia through it claim as the third Rome. The Tsar's continued the Byzantine bloodline and they were the heart of the Orthodox church.
Germany as a successor of the HRE, even Austrai has a claim after being home to the Emperors for so long.

 

[Agent327]

Sorry for miscounting. Actually, the Ottoman Turks appeared earlier than Moscovite Russia on the world stage, so I would count Russia fourth. And how can Rome be the successor of Rome? After the Roman Empire follows Charlemagne, leading to the Holy Roman Empire (second) and then... nothing. Despite Mussolini's obvious dreaming of a Mare Nostro, Italy never managed to reattain its former glory. (The count's again off if you count Byzantium as the second Rome, but - despite effeorts to the contrary - it had to acknowledge in the end that the Western empire was gone and could not be recovered.)

 

[Dachs]

Actually, the Ottoman Turks appeared earlier than Moscovite Russia on the world stage, so I would count Russia fourth.

But nobody else does. It's a historiographical and historical convention to refer to the Moscow as the 'Third Rome'.

 

[Agent327]

Don't care much for conventions, but the Rum-Selchuks named themselves after Rome. I gather the Ottomans took after that. Anyway, not wanting to get into numerology, I recognize only one Rome. Don't care much for pretenders either. (Guess the Romans must have gotten something right for all these pretentions about Second, Third, Fourth Rome...)

Anyway, I like your new avatar. Can I at least presume you are Greek (or should I say Hellene - another thing the Romans did: name the Hellenes after the tiny tribe of the Graeci... pars pro toto and all that)?

 

[Dachs]

On the subject of Long Wars: the Long War (Austria vs Ottomans, 1593-1606) was unsatisfying. I want my money back.

Don't care much for conventions, but the Rum-Selchuks named themselves after Rome. I gather the Ottomans took after that. Anyway, not wanting to get into numerology, I recognize only one Rome. Don't care much for pretenders either. (Guess the Romans must have gotten something right for all these pretentions about Second, Third, Fourth Rome...)

Heh, yeah after a fashion as far as I'm concerned the 'second Rome, third Rome' crap is just that - crap, laying claim to a legacy that is at best only in part theirs. Turks, Bulgarians, Italians, and Russians all tried to call themselves inheritors of the Third Rome, and by and large Ivan III and his successors did the best propaganda number.

Anyway, I like your new avatar. Can I at least presume you are Greek (or should I say Hellene - another thing the Romans did: name the Hellenes after the tiny tribe of the Graeci... pars pro toto and all that)?

Partly Greek by descent, but not as much as I'd like. I'm actually German-American.

 

[Sharwood]

So you'd like a little more Greek in ya, huh? I think I can arrange that.

 

[BananaLee]

He needs a dose of the Greece Lightning, it seems.

 

[Sharwood]

He needs a dose of the Greece Lightning, it seems.

Is your avatar automatic? Systematic? Hy-aiiii-dromatic? Why it's Greece Lightning!

 

[say1988]

The count's again off if you count Byzantium as the second Rome, but - despite effeorts to the contrary - it had to acknowledge in the end that the Western empire was gone and could not be recovered.

While they didn't control the city of Rome I would definitely consider them a continuation of the Roman Empire, there is a direct line of Emperors in the East through the fall of the West, including some that ruled the whole empire. Sure it evolved into a Greek EMpire rather than Latin, but I would just count that as a change, not a cut off.

 

[Yui108]

Bah. The Tsarist claim to being the Third Rome is extremely tenuous, with the marriage of a Byzantine princess to the heir of a dynasty that died out rather quickly.

 

[say1988]

It is weak, though they also have the religious claim, I would not call any modern state a successor to Rome (or anything beyond Byzantium).

My view is that it would have to have been part said empire, and a significant part, with direct continuation. Such as Russian Empire->Soviet Union->Russia

 

[Joecoolyo]

How about Mongolia, 100 and something years of continues expansion across a whole continent. I think this could possibly be the longest war(s) in history.

 

[Necropolis]

Obviusly the Hundred years war was the longest war. but England kept a small peice of land in france called Calis till the 1500's. it always seems like when we talk about history the English come up

mongolia is a good point but keep in mind the Mongol Empire broke up on Kublia Khans death in 1294 AD after this eventually in the future the diffrent factions of the empire fought against one another. The Russians fought against the Mongolians that were called the Tatars and the Tamerlans fought against china. Tamerlane the great was one of many that were decended from Gengis Khan.

im time we will find our life times in the history books in the year 2201 what will they besaying once the 23rd century begins will they talk much about the 21st century or will they be like us and think more about longer ago times. what is known is that in 3 more life times from now when its 2201 AD there will probably be a out post on Luna, the earths moon. but 2201 AD is a realistic point in the future time line casue from here they willl look back and say the USA is 400 years old casue in November 1800 washigton,DC began to be ocupied By americans. they will say this is the Quada Centienial of the USA.

present trends usally indicate future events when talking about Space Exsploration China and India are now taking baby steps into Space. also 4 new worlds will be exsplored that were never before in the 2010's decade they are Ceres,Vesta ,Pluto ,and Charon theres worlds were discovered in the period from 1801 till 1978 in just a few years to come all of these discoveres get exsplored not to mention the insatiable curiusity of mankind to exsplore Luna as indicated by Indias 4 year plan to Map Luna from 2008 to 2013.

perhaps in the year 2020 we will set our sights to exsplre other worlds for the first time . remember 2004 when Titan was exsplored? this was the first Moon to ever be exsplored since Luna the earths moon in the 1960's

the space race now has to mean more to come from now till some point in the future

 

[carmen510]

Atheism vs. Religion

Evolution vs. Creationism

God vs. Satan

Rich vs. Poor

 

[Dachs]

Atheism vs. Religion

This is like saying "Liberalism vs. Ideology".

Evolution vs. Creationism

...and this conflict isn't even all that old.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

As far as the Barbary States were concerned, if you didn't have a treaty specifically describing your peace with the Deys, you were at war with them by default. I'm sure there was some nation who never had a treaty with one of them, so it could've been a few hundred years of war.

 

[Agent327]

How about Mongolia, 100 and something years of continues expansion across a whole continent. I think this could possibly be the longest war(s) in history.

Continuous expansion is not the same as war.

Obviusly the Hundred years war was the longest war.

This has been discussed already. Both examples, like the 30 Years War, were a series of conflicts. so the best candidate to date is still the 80 Years War.

 

[Mowque]

As far as the Barbary States were concerned, if you didn't have a treaty specifically describing your peace with the Deys, you were at war with them by default.

Always thought that was neat policy. Sort of like Risk.

 

[Dachs]

Always thought that was neat policy. Sort of like Risk.

The Vandali did it too for their (shorter) existence. It's an interesting grand-strategy for a pariah thalassocracy.