Loose Change

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Oh God, not one of these threads again...

In fact it's the loose change guys and others that are damaging the truth campaigns.

IT'S A CONSPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRACY!

:waves fingers mysteriously:

Honestly...

 

[Xenocrates]

Oh God, not one of these threads again...



IT'S A CONSPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRACY!

:waves fingers mysteriously:

Honestly...

LOL not one of those posts again

YOU AGAIN

Don't blame me if you don't like the thread! The official theory is a conspiracy, the unofficial theories are also conspiracies. What's your point? That bearded Muslims have the capacity to plot, but no one else? Perhaps they're linked telepathically through their beards?

Don't wave your finger mysteriously at me Sonny Jim! (you might release a fireball by mistake)

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: Ponthiuth Pilate, Xenocrates - I suggest you two leave each other alone, since you can't seem to do it without trolling and flaming each other.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[JerichoHill]

Loose Change has been debunked. Planes hit buildings. People died.

5 years ago, I stood outside my apartment and watched an airplane fly very low overhead. A few seconds later, a very loud explosion could be heard. We trucked it over a hill and saw the pentagon smoking, one side crumbled.

I've stated this multiple times in multiple threads. Yet the same conspiracy guys continue on, despite my eye-witness (of sorts) testimony.

Then again, since I work for the gov, I must be a plant and lying.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Anyone who insists that Loose Change has any credibility whatsoever should check out this site. I think it explains quite well all the "unexplained facts" brought up by conspiracy theorists.

 

[Commie #4522]

the video uis real video and the only pplz against it are like pplz who hate bush and wach too many fox news. I made at hread about it like year ago u shoul dlook it up.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Moderator Action: Ponthiuth Pilate, Xenocrates - I suggest you two leave each other alone, since you can't seem to do it without trolling and flaming each other.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Good advice. I think I'll avoid this thread and the next 46 Loose Change threads that will be posted this month....

 

[AceChilla]

Rik, did you see the Zembla episode that was broadcasted on the same channel right before Loose Change? They debunked the most important clames made in Loose Changes such as that no 757 hit the pentagon, and that the Twin towers fell due to controlled demolition.

They brought on professors from the technical University in Delft, and controlled demolition experts.

Finally some solid debunking, not on shady websites but by people who actually know what its about and did the research. I praise Zembla for that.

If you didnt see it, you can watch it online here

 

[.Shane.]

I really wish the staff would ban these kinds of threads. They're insulting to the memories of the people who died, moreso when posted on 9/11.

This POS "video" has been thoroughly debunked.

This site has a very nice collection and linkage to a wide-range of sources on this topic.

This is just so much hokum and has the intellectual heft of Holocaust denial, fake moon landings, anti-income tax (in the US there are people who argue there's no "legal" right to tax income), and southern apologetics.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Rik, did you see the Zembla episode that was broadcasted on the same channel right before Loose Change? They debunked the most important clames made in Loose Changes such as that no 757 hit the pentagon, and that the Twin towers fell due to controlled demolition.

They brought on professors from the technical University in Delft, and controlled demolition experts.

Finally some solid debunking, not on shady websites but by people who actually know what its about and did the research. I praise Zembla for that.

If you didnt see it, you can watch it online here

I've seen it.
Loose change is not solely about "WTC was bombed and no plane hit the Pentagon" (For the record; on those topics I disagree with Loose Change). However, it touches a deeper nerve and an underlying truth: As long as some questions are satisfactorily answered in this murdercase; the case shouldn't be closed.

You may believe that the twin towers were bombed and you may believe the Pentagon was hit by something else than a plane and you may believe passengers of flight 93 are alive in Cleveland and you may believe that this was all a set-up by the USA -and I don't believe either of the 4 points- fact is that some chapters of the story are not explained by the official commission. For instance: WT7 collapsed under suspicious circumstances (also in Zembla) and some of the alleged hijackers are reported to be alive and well after 12 September 2001. Those elements raise questions that need to be answered and thererfore these elements should be investigated more thoroughly.

 

[Red Door]

the video uis real video and the only pplz against it are like pplz who hate bush and wach too many fox news. I made at hread about it like year ago u shoul dlook it up.

Really, I hate Bush, but this movie is full of bull. You need to look it up, since it's obviously photoshopped.

And please learn to type, you type like a blind llama.

 

[Xenocrates]

It's been a while since I saw loose change so I can't remember whether this was included, but Larry Silverstein's admission that building 7 was demolished has yet to be adequately explained as far as I know. Except of course that the building was actually demolished. This implies that the explosives were pre-placed and is thus crucial to both the MIHOP and the LIHOP positions.

LIHOP in 9/11 folklore is Let It Happen On Purpose
MIHOP is Made It Happen On Purpose

(Yes 9/11 has it's own language now )


Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[Godwynn]

Maddox pretty much dismantled this one.

 

[jameson]

For instance: WT7 collapsed under suspicious circumstances (also in Zembla) and some of the alleged hijackers are reported to be alive and well after 12 September 2001. Those elements raise questions that need to be answered and thererfore these elements should be investigated more thoroughly.

Well, to me one of the more disappointing aspects of the Zembla documentary was that they didn't spend more time on the WTC7 collapse and the conspiracy and real theories surrounding its collapse. The very first google search I did on that one turned up 5 sites on the first page of results debunking the idea that it was demolished deliberately, and they spent almost no time whatsoever on that.
Plus the conclusion that no conspiracies were involved in taking down the Towers and the crash in the Pentagon but that there was something going on wrt WTC7 makes no sense at all to me. We see governments (and particularly this one) fail all the time, why is it so hard to believe that government failed this time ? I know it's a trite proverb, but in general I tend to be loth to ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

 

[JtheJackal]

Maddox pretty much dismantled this one.

I don't know, I still think the logic I like to say is more definite.

Why, in the governments apparent infinite resources, conduct the attacks with missles, fake planes, demolitions, and then lie about it instead of doing it exactly how they claim it happened.

 

[Xenocrates]

I know it's a trite proverb, but in general I tend to be loth to ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

You just reminded me of something. The last time someone said that on OT, a good 6 months ago, someone made the best post I've ever seen on here. He said:

"Yes, Al Qaeda flew the planes into the buildings by accident "

I really wish I'd thought of that!

It astutely sumarised the problem that we expect different forces to be at work in the minds of others that we see in ourselves. Great post!

 

[.Shane.]

For instance: WT7 collapsed under suspicious circumstances (also in Zembla) and some of the alleged hijackers are reported to be alive and well after 12 September 2001. Those elements raise questions that need to be answered and thererfore these elements should be investigated more thoroughly.

I'd love to see a source for your second assertion.

You're doing a real disservice by pushing this BS. Again, this is hokum, bs, etc.... it speaks to intellectual dishonesty, cowardice, and maliciousness on those who produce it. And, my words aren't much kinder for those who actively promote it.

 

[woody60707]

It's been a while since I saw loose change so I can't remember whether this was included, but Larry Silverstein's admission that building 7 was demolished has yet to be adequately explained as far as I know. Except of course that the building was actually demolished. This implies that the explosives were pre-placed and is thus crucial to both the MIHOP and the LIHOP positions.

LIHOP in 9/11 folklore is Let It Happen On Purpose
MIHOP is Made It Happen On Purpose

(Yes 9/11 has it's own language now )


Anyone have any thoughts on that?

He say to "pull it". No where does he ever saying anything about demolish of the build. Well i will just give you this quote to show you why

"We have never, ever heard the term "pullit" being used to refer to the explosive demolotion of a build, and neither has any blast team we've spoken with." http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC9-6-06.pdf

To be fair, they do say that there is a such thing as to "pull" a build, but that has NOTHING to do with explosives.

Now that we got that out of the way.

edit typo

 

[Xanikk999]

Bad film. Very very bad.

 

[Xenocrates]

I'd love to see a source for your second assertion.

You're doing a real disservice by pushing this BS. Again, this is hokum, bs, etc.... it speaks to intellectual dishonesty, cowardice, and maliciousness on those who produce it. And, my words aren't much kinder for those who actively promote it.

This is the original source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

More recently people have speculated that the alleged suicide pilots are still 'alive' because they were the victim of identity theft or of having identical names. Still no attempt has been made to correct the suspect list AFAIK.

Anyway Shane, the problem with the loose change vid in my opinion is that they haven't focussed their energies. There's far too much in this for a couple of blokes to tackle, far too much. They get it wrong because they try to explain every part of the event. Most researchers only study one part of it, the airforce exercises, the collapse, Silverstein, the anthrax, the Israelis etc etc. It's 'unfortunate' that this vid is seen as being at the centre of the truth movement; it isn't.