Mad Scientist POll for the Next RPC

[NintendoTogepi]

In my opinion:

1. Restless Joao II....well, of course I'll select this one, I proposed it . (and it's difficult as hell, I reccomend "no barbarians" as a setting or else you'll lose it for sure) I think it could be very interesting. The biggest question of course is what victory condition? Space Race would be difficult because of a massive economy crash, and Culture would be impossible. Domination seems likely, as does a Domination/Diplomatic victory.

2. Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Atonement...it seems like a very interesting game, and you haven't played a naval game in a long time. I like the idea of this one!

3. Kiss Brennus, seems like it'd be really interesting to see a game like this. Raw power! Smash!

Also, just for the sake of it, what ones I DON'T want to see next :

1. Mansa's Greed...it seems like it could be quite the tedious game to both play and watch :O

2. Rameses the Intolerant...it's actually a wonderful idea, I would like to see it sometime, but not until a few games, both Mao and Charlemagne have involved heavy religious focus (Mao gets no religion, Charlemagne must spread it like crazy)

3. The Envious Little General...seems like an incredibly frustrating game.

Just my opinions

 

[matthewthegreat]

Restless Joao!!!

I like it because I think every one has thought about doing that but few people have actually done that.

 

[siggboy]

1. Restless Joao II....well, of course I'll select this one, I proposed it . (and it's difficult as hell, I reccomend "no barbarians" as a setting or else you'll lose it for sure) I think it could be very interesting. The biggest question of course is what victory condition? Space Race would be difficult because of a massive economy crash, and Culture would be impossible. Domination seems likely, as does a Domination/Diplomatic victory.

I've started a game to test this scenario, and here are a few first thoughts:

Maybe as one could say that "victory" is achieved as soon as you (a) claimed 100% of the new world (ie. your cultural boundaries must cover the entire landmass) and (b) your old empire has been colonized off before 1776 AD (US Declaration of Independence). If this turns out to be too easy one could require claiming proper victory as far as the game is concerned as well.

I'm not sure if you have to turn off the barbarians in order to succeed. The problem here is that since Mad wants to play on Immortal, barb activity will be very high so claiming the new lands will require an army, but it should be doable -- but maybe not before Astronomy.

A few words about leader choice as well: Joao seems like the perfect fit for this, with his UU (Caravel with 2 cargo space that can carry any unit), UB (improved Customs House) and traits (Exp/Imp). This almost screams for beelining towards optics and hitting the new lands ASAP, while keeping your initial civilization small.
On the other hand, one might consider it "too easy", but with any other leader you will have to go for Astronomy first which might make winning the game a lot harder, or even impossible, at least on Immortal difficulty.

So if the actual leader for this scenario is not set in stone yet, let me just add to the discussion that from a role-playing perspective there are plenty of alternatives (any Native American civ, as well as any civ that attempted to colonize the Americas in real world history). I would find it quite charming to have the Native Americans "reclaim their lands" in this scenario.

 

[semirami]

Immortal? Till now all games are at Monarch, and this is the least suitable game to increae the level, not with one, but with two levels

 

[madscientist]

Immortal?? PLease!!!!!!!!!

I'll stick to Monarch. It's where I usualy play my off-line games and I already do not adjust down for the RPC difficulty since the first GK game.

 

[siggboy]

I have to apologize -- I confused the RPC with the ALC for a moment, and Sisi just made the step from Emperor to Immortal. My bad. For the RPC it's Monarch/Marathon, as I now remember ;-).

Anyways, my first "test game" for the Joao challenge (Monarch/Epic) just ended in defeat. I played it badly and had a lot of Zealots on my map.

One thing that I realized is that with standard settings the Old World is completely overcrowded. In my next game I'll probably start a two (maybe three) city challenge and completely focus on beelining Optics and getting out of there.

Oh, and on second thought I think Barbarians should definitely be in the game. If you turn them off it will become ridiculously easy to claim the empty continent and run away with the game (if we actually pick Joao with his Unique Unit).

Sorry for the strategy talk about a game which hasn't even started yet, my own playing got me carried away here I guess. But looking at the current state of the polling it seems as if it's actually going to happen after the Charlemagne game.

 

[madscientist]

I have to apologize -- I confused the RPC with the ALC for a moment, and Sisi just made the step from Emperor to Immortal. My bad. For the RPC it's Monarch/Marathon, as I now remember ;-).

Anyways, my first "test game" for the Joao challenge (Monarch/Epic) just ended in defeat. I played it badly and had a lot of Zealots on my map.

One thing that I realized is that with standard settings the Old World is completely overcrowded. In my next game I'll probably start a two (maybe three) city challenge and completely focus on beelining Optics and getting out of there.

Oh, and on second thought I think Barbarians should definitely be in the game. If you turn them off it will become ridiculously easy to claim the empty continent and run away with the game (if we actually pick Joao with his Unique Unit).

Sorry for the strategy talk about a game which hasn't even started yet, my own playing got me carried away here I guess. But looking at the current state of the polling it seems as if it's actually going to happen after the Charlemagne game.

No problem Sig. You almost gave me a coronary say Immortal!!!

Barbs definitely have to be on, nothing like ravaging great cities in the new World!!!! I was planning to keep the Old world cities few, tight, and coastal. Perhaps an Oracle slingshot to MC, colossus, beeline machinery (crossbow defense) compass (Bulb from a GS???) and optics. I will have to review how I did it in the Willem game, but optics can be gotten rediculously early if done right.

As fars as which game goes next, I will work on the top three choices although I researve the right to prioritize the three depending how the current one plays out. Joaoa certainly seams like the most chalenging of the three.

 

[siggboy]

I was planning to keep the Old world cities few, tight, and coastal. Perhaps an Oracle slingshot to MC, colossus, beeline machinery (crossbow defense) compass (Bulb from a GS???) and optics. I will have to review how I did it in the Willem game, but optics can be gotten rediculously early if done right.

Compass can be bulbed with a GS. I think you get the option if you have Sailing (obviously) but can't research Maths or Philo yet. So one would have to research Maths (you need Writing for the GS) but not Code of Laws (prereq for Phil). I once had a game where I wanted to bulb Philosphy but couldn't because all I would get was Compass ;-).
But since Compass is so cheap I'm not sure if it's worth using a Great Scientist for it -- and if you slingshot MC you can get a Great Engineer, and they can bulb Machinery for you (if you don't want to rush a Wonder). That's probably the way to go to get Optics fast.

As far as "keeping the cities coastal" goes: unfortunately you might start in the middle of the continent (happened to me in my second test) and getting one, or even two, decent coastal cities can become very difficult. Maybe one of the map providers on these forums could make a scenario for you where you start coastal.

Since the continent is way too small for everybody the religions spread really quickly and you end up with religious blocks as well as outcasts, wars start early and you are somewhere in the middle having to figure out how to keep peace (because a lot of fighting on your front means you can't build up the emigration fleet).

Joaoa certainly seams like the most chalenging of the three.

Absolutely, but that's why I personally would LOVE to see it played publicly. I guess there will be loads of discussions on how to proceed, maybe a lot like in Sisiutil's games. It's quite mind boggling to keep the great goal in mind while messing around on that starting continent which you'd like to leave rather sooner than later ;-).

 

[Gliese 581]

For the Joao game: How about someone knowledgeable in that kind of thing insert a native civ of choice at a late date so that they are technologically very primitive when madscientists carracks arrive? ^^

 

[Al-Iskander]

Not sure what anyone else has said (I had a bit o' beer at lunch, so reading comprehension and attention span aren't too good right now), but I voted for:

1. FDR - I want to see how you handle an archipelago map with a civ that isn't designed for one.

2. Joao - I want to see the Portuguese UU in action, and how you handle an Old/New world map, since that's one of my favorite map types but I (somehow) find it a bit tricky to win.

And judging by the current polling data, it looks like at least one of my picks is looking likely

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

For the Joao game: How about someone knowledgeable in that kind of thing insert a native civ of choice at a late date so that they are technologically very primitive when madscientists carracks arrive? ^^

You wouldn't need to insert it later. Just being isolated pretty much ensures they'll be isolated. Moreso if it's genghis or montezuma.

 

[Gliese 581]

You wouldn't need to insert it later. Just being isolated pretty much ensures they'll be isolated. Moreso if it's genghis or montezuma.

Well I was thinking reeeally primitive but there are many ways you could approach such an idea I suppose. I was thinking of the likes of the quechua that supposedly represents a unit that fought with musketmen pikemen and conquistadors?

 

[SenhorDaGuerra]

Being portuguese and all... JOAO THE RESTLESS!!!

look forward to this one! it seems to be gathering support!

 

[madscientist]

Not sure what anyone else has said (I had a bit o' beer at lunch, so reading comprehension and attention span aren't too good right now), but I voted for:

1. FDR - I want to see how you handle an archipelago map with a civ that isn't designed for one.

2. Joao - I want to see the Portuguese UU in action, and how you handle an Old/New world map, since that's one of my favorite map types but I (somehow) find it a bit tricky to win.

And judging by the current polling data, it looks like at least one of my picks is looking likely

Actually FDR is deceptively well suited for archeopolego. Starts with fishing and industrious so he is almost a lock for the Great Lighthouse. Fast forges also gives him a head start on forges and thus the colossus. ORG means he can have alot of cities on different islands while keeping maintenance lower and access to faster courthouses.

 

[Al-Iskander]

Actually FDR is deceptively well suited for archeopolego. Starts with fishing and industrious so he is almost a lock for the Great Lighthouse. Fast forges also gives him a head start on forges and thus the colossus. ORG means he can have alot of cities on different islands while keeping maintenance lower and access to faster courthouses.

Hmm... you have a couple of good points there actually. I think I might give that try when I'm back to my copy of Civ4 in July.

 

[CivCorpse]

Hope you have better luck with your ramses the intolerant game than I did

 

[Calouste]

Actually FDR is deceptively well suited for archeopolego. Starts with fishing and industrious so he is almost a lock for the Great Lighthouse. Fast forges also gives him a head start on forges and thus the colossus. ORG means he can have alot of cities on different islands while keeping maintenance lower and access to faster courthouses.

Organized also gives half-price Lighthouses, a prerequisite for the GL.
So he can get the GL for a total cost on Marathon of 400 + 90 instead of 600 + 180. So whip the lighthouse and chop the GL and REX like mad once you have those 2 bonus trade routes.

 

[madscientist]

Well lokks like Joao is clearly the winner here, so he's definitely the next RPC. Let's start some ideas for that one!!!

I will the Brennus (we do need a better name) and Hyuna after that although I'll decide the order later.

After those three I may pick one myself and open up another post. As you all know I can whip through these games fairly quickly!!!!

 

[siggboy]

Well lokks like Joao is clearly the winner here, so he's definitely the next RPC. Let's start some ideas for that one!!!

YEAH!

Here are my suggestions for rules, going from my own experience with the practice attempts I've done so far:

• Space Win should be required -- it does have a nice role playing element to it (Restless Joao, to the New World and Beyond!). I also think that "merely" conquering the empty continent and colonizing off the old lands is too easy. This might be especially interesting if you require the old lands to be colonized off earlier. A lot of the economy would have to be built from scratch, with only some help of your new vassal in terms of research and resources.
• You might require that the old lands must be colonized off at a certain point. Maybe something like: when the number of cities on the new world exceeds the number on the old world, the old lands have to be colonized. Or: as soon as the palace is built, the old lands have to be given independence. Or: you have to become independent before 1776 AD (as mentioned earlier). Or: you have to become independent as soon as Liberalism is researched.
  Or combine all of the above and require indepence as soon as ANY of the above conditions has been met.
• Phase One (the old world start) is critical, and hard. I wouldn't be surprised if a restart might become necessary due to a bad start or because World War breaks out beyond our control. If there are a lot of zealots on the map it's practically impossible to stay out of the way of everybody.
  Therefore, none of the rules should make phase one harder than it already is.
• DO NOT enable "Balanced Resources". While this makes phase one a lot easier, you end up with very scarce resources on the second continent if that option is in effect (I've checked in World Builder on a few maps).
• On Marathon, you might have to increase the map size by one level. I'm playing Epic speed, and with standard map size the new lands seem practically next door to me. A larger map (and hence more rivaling civs) would also make the overall game more interesting, I think.
• I'm not sure if you should require a complete domination of the new lands for a victory. At least not if there's a secondary goal, such as Space Win. It's your call, of course. You seem to like to wage war, so maybe Domination win is more suited towards your style.
• Barbarians have to be in the game. They actually help you to settle the new world faster, if you take the right approach to emigration.

I'm very much looking forward to this, almost guaranteed to become a fun game if the rules are good .

(BTW in my current practice game, guess what popped from the very first goody hut that I found on the new continent? You're correct, it was ASTRONOMY !).

 

[r_rolo1]

Well lokks like Joao is clearly the winner here, so he's definitely the next RPC. Let's start some ideas for that one!!!

Fair enough...

You know this means Optics beeline....