Main reason for seeing 'multiculturalism' as a failure

[Loppan Torkel]

And putting words into other peoples' mouths so you could ignore their actual points and apply your preconceived ideas is the very definition of narrowmindedness and intellectual dishonesty.

I couldn't agree more in what you say. It's sad that it's done so deliberately too, but what's to expect on internet?

 

[aelf]

That very much resembles claims that communism has never failed, but only and always countries attempting to institute this.

That isn't even comparable. Repeat to yourself three times what everyone else has been pointing out: Multiculturalism is a fact of globalisation, and any multicultural policy is merely in support of the diversity that already exists.

Anti-multiculturalists are really just anti-immigration, but to dress this up a bit more nicely they resort to creating strawmen depictions of multiculturalism (e.g. as being tolerant of extremism) that they attack to prove an ill-defined point. I dunno, using big words makes you sound better, I guess.

 

[NYHunter]

So if people wish government to manage culture then that is what it should do. Even ignoring that "culture" is about as all-encompassing term as you can get.

Well, I was interested in having somwhat of a discussion, even if just a small one, so when I proposed that government shouldn't be managing culture I was hoping that someone here would respond with actual arguments rather than "if people want it to than it should", after all, I could have just as easily responded by saying "if people don't want the government to manage something than it shouldn't" and it just turns the conversation into us stating bland points about democracy.

Absolutely everything a government could do has a culture-related aspect/impact.

I agree. The same goes for the economy, but one can support a command economy, a free economy or something in between. Ditto for other areas of society. There is a difference between influence and direct involvement. The latter is what I was refering to when I said government should not be managing culture.

 

[Yeekim]

Anti-multiculturalists are really just anti-immigration, but to dress this up a bit more nicely they resort to creating strawmen depictions of multiculturalism

Uh...probably. Although I fail to see why being anti-immigration needs to be "dressed up more nicely". But I guess it is only fair that after bashing others' ideas about multiculturalism and saying what it isn't, I should explain what I think it is.
Gtg right now though, so take care until tomorrow.
@NYHunter: Fair enough.

 

[Japanrocks12]

Critiques of multiculturalism rest on people's high-strung ideals of what society should look like. The people putting them forth are at risk for being demagogues. None of their theories are useful in any practical sense once you really check them against the facts.

 

[aelf]

Uh...probably. Although I fail to see why being anti-immigration needs to be "dressed up more nicely". But I guess it is only fair that after bashing others' ideas about multiculturalism and saying what it isn't, I should explain what I think it is.
Gtg right now though, so take care until tomorrow.

Another favourite tactic of theirs is apparently playing victim, ironically enough.

I'm not "bashing others' ideas". I just fail to see the merits or even the point of their arguments. You can't exactly blame me when these arguments veer from the cultural to the economic when pressed, without ever saying what exactly is a non-multicultural policy besides restricting immigration.

 

[Bill3000]

What radical Cultural Darwinism.

It's correct, and the entire point of freedom of expression, the free market of ideas, and globalization, except without the prissy parts by irrational traditionalists who foolishly want to protect that which should not be protected, merely recorded and left to history. May the superior memes survive and thrive, and the inferior ones die out, much like products in the market.

 

[civ_king]

That isn't even comparable. Repeat to yourself three times what everyone else has been pointing out: Multiculturalism is a fact of globalisation, and any multicultural policy is merely in support of the diversity that already exists.

Anti-multiculturalists are really just anti-immigration, but to dress this up a bit more nicely they resort to creating strawmen depictions of multiculturalism (e.g. as being tolerant of extremism) that they attack to prove an ill-defined point. I dunno, using big words makes you sound better, I guess.

Huh? I do not support multiculturalism, but I support making immigration to the US much easier so um...

 

[innonimatu]

Food for thought: would you describe CFC OT as a multicultural forum?

 

[civ_king]

Food for thought: would you describe CFC OT as a multicultural forum?

No, however there are people of many perspectives here

 

[Japanrocks12]

Huh? I do not support multiculturalism, but I support making immigration to the US much easier so um...

Could you elaborate?

 

[civ_king]

Could you elaborate?

Vastly increase the number of H-1B Visas and enable holders of such to become citizens or acquire green cards much easier

 

[Arwon]

So: bring more people of different cultures into your country.

Then what? Wish really hard? Yell at them to become like you?

 

[Japanrocks12]

Vastly increase the number of H-1B Visas and enable holders of such to become citizens or acquire green cards much easier

I was hoping you'd explain how you keep this position consistent with your non-support for multiculturalism.

 

[Leonel]

I realize all these cries that multiculturalism is a failure are ridiculous now that I consider all the people who have successfully integrated into America while retaining their culture and adapting theirs to ours.

 

[Singularity]

I realize all these cries that multiculturalism is a failure are ridiculous now that I consider all the people who have successfully integrated into America while retaining their culture and adapting theirs to ours.

Aha, but if you carefully read the OP it's constructed around the French, German and English heads of state's recently damning statements on the topic of multicultural success or failure in their respective states and not those of the United States of America.

---

Litteracy, powerty, unemployment, crime and probably other major social variables have been connected to the recent urge to confess their respective failures in making a new and better state with these new citizens. The data is there for all to see, but to me it's again the impressive capability of a political figurehead's powers to state the obvious without supplying a solution to the problem.

In my opinion the problems are very local and unique down to an individual level almost, and can not be 'fixed' with a universal set of new policy. Particularily not on a scale of the European Union's attempts of making policy. If you go further down that street you find nasty stuff that we all should be glad we left behind in western europe over 60 years ago.

 

[civ_king]

So: bring more people of different cultures into your country.

Then what? Wish really hard? Yell at them to become like you?

Then I don't support their culture. Over time they will assimilate. They can have their Filipino or Greek festivals and we don't do anything more to support it. Multiple cultures side by side doesn't help

I was hoping you'd explain how you keep this position consistent with your non-support for multiculturalism.

I don't oppose multiculturalism, I just don't support it

 

[warpus]

Then I don't support their culture. Over time they will assimilate. They can have their Filipino or Greek festivals and we don't do anything more to support it. Multiple cultures side by side doesn't help

Are you against Chinese new year celebrations, St. Patrick's day parades, Cinqo de Mayo, Dyngus Day (celebrated in Buffalo and other places), Oktoberfest, etc. being celebrated in the U.S. ?

 

[Arwon]

Then I don't support their culture. Over time they will assimilate. They can have their Filipino or Greek festivals and we don't do anything more to support it. Multiple cultures side by side doesn't help

I don't oppose multiculturalism, I just don't support it

What do you mean by "support"?

 

[civ_king]

give assistance to, esp. financially