Make your own civics contest!

[Lurking Liu]

Federalism replaces Nationalism in the Legal(?) column. In turn, Nationalism is moved over to the new Identity column.

 

[Norbert]

I'm going to get in trouble with this one, but if it's realism ur concerned about, I think the bonuses of the Ferderalist identity should be given to the Ideology one...and eliminate foreign trade routes (maximizing synergy wit mercantilism, as Fascism is wont to do) while the Federalist legal should be: low maintenance, [insert bonus to capital/and or scientists/merchants here.) I realize I shouldn't be helping the contestants, but just something to get the creative juices flowing...(in case it's not obvious, until the deadline, you can modify you're entries as much as you want.)

 

[frob2900]

Federalism replaces Nationalism in the Legal(?) column. In turn, Nationalism is moved over to the new Identity column.

But why +2 per specialist?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The "Culture" and "Religion" civics are horribly overpowered compared to the others.

In fact, the "Culture" one is so insanely overpowered that I'd never run anything else.

The problem with "Culture" is that +1 per 10% seems a little weak compared to the +2 from Nationhood with Barracks while +1 per 5% may be too strong.
I could change it to +1 per 10% :culture and +1 from Theatres. This is like giving every civ the Byzantine UB, but it might be the best solution.

Religion should be useful in the early but not too early game. I considered to make it available with Priesthood or Monotheism but then it would be too easy to get very early Prophets. Making it available with Divine Right will give you loads of Great Prophets when you don't really need them any more.
Taking away the additional from Priests should be enough. I forgot about Angkor Wat when I came up with this civic.
So it should be
Requires Theology
High Upkeep
+1 from Priests
can have unlimited Priests

 

[snipafist]

The more I think on it, the more I like the changes frob and I had considered for Aristocracy/Serfdom - it makes a farm-based economy more worthwhile, but it's a potential trap - it won't "age" as well as a cottage-based economy, so the late game could see civs that went too "medieval" getting into trouble with more advanced progressive civs outpacing them, just like in real history.

There's the obvious synergy with a specialist economy, but it would also go well with Mass Levies - the farms effectively would supply +2 resources towards completion of units (+1 food and +1 hammer under Serfdom), which is also fairly medieval. Like I said, the more thought I put towards it, the more I like it. There should be other ways around the production problems of the early era other than slavery, and this would be one of them.

 

[Norbert]

But why +2 per specialist?

This is why I advocate moving the cultural benefits of that civic to the one originated in Fascism...people performing specialized tasks for a state unified in thought and Action, and convinced of the superiority of that unity, tend to create suprising cultural achievements, particularly in the realms of architecture or music...while suppression in a police state might stamp out "subversive" literature or mass media, other forms of cultural expression can thrive...indeed this might be a case for a civic with a detractor...(no culture from temples/libraries/more culture from courthouses/specialists, something like that.)

And while we're on the subject of realism, don't strain too hard...WTF does the SISTINE CHAPEL give from specialists, for crying out loud???

*EDIT* BTW, it might fit in both with balance and flavor to add +1 from pastures and plantations to Aristocracy...

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Federalism is a legal civic and Nationhood an Identity civic.
When thinking about Federalism the countries that come to mind first are the USA and Germany (or the Holy Roman Empire).
Those countries have very large economies and were home to many Great People. I initially wanted to give Federalism an increase in GP birth rate, but this felt somehow redundand because it does the same like Pacifism, so I decided to make specialists a bit more useful.
Federalism is intended to be a Specialist Economy version of Free Speech.
If you have many Towns than Free Speech is a no-brainer, but if you prefer a Specialist Economy and use Mercantilism than Federalism is better because it doubles your trade income. The +2 per Specialist is intended as a substitute to the +100% from Free Speech.

 

[Norbert]

I forgot it was going to be in the same category as FS...in which case you should definitely include a nerf of FS. Honestly, even with a large SE, I'm not sure even +4 culture a specialist could replace +100% culture. Maybe someone should run the #s on that?

 

[Lurking Liu]

But why +2 per specialist?

Heh, I don't know, I didn't make the darn thing, I'm just complimenting the structure =P

The bottom line, for me, is that civics should *only* give benefits. No drawbacks. Firstly because the benefit should be so small that no drawback is necessary, but secondly because then you start to open the can of worms about "Well, if this has a drawback, then why doesn't this?" and have to redesign all the civics. Still even worse, you can get people who are really, really into the real-life version of a civic saying, "Well that's not right! Puppyism is accurately represented by it's +1 due to the cutness of the puppy, but why does it also get -1 because we don't eat them? Kittenism doesn't get -1 "

And, yes, I deliberately chose stupid examples because this discussion is getting far too lucid and serious.

 

[Norbert]

Heh,

Still even worse, you can get people who are really, really into the real-life version of a civic saying, "Well that's not right! Puppyism is accurately represented by it's +1 due to the cutness of the puppy, but why does it also get -1 because we don't eat them? Kittenism doesn't get -1 "

If this site has sblocks, I really should sig this.

 

[cassembler]

...my original point was just to propose what I thought would be a better option than Public-Funded Healthcare, which to me sounds an awful lot like Subsidized Healthcare. I thought the -1 to happiness would add in interesting dynamic to the civic options...

Well, I mean Universal healthcare instead of "Public Funded." I mean "Subsidized" to be the "Medicare/ Medicaid/ if you're broke and don't qualify, then you just suffer".

I agree with the modifier over the penalty.

Howz aboot dis:

Health Care

*Natural........../NONE..../no effect
*Shamanism...../NONE...../Mysticism/ +1 in cities w/ jungle
*Hospice........./NONE...../Divine right/ +1 in cities w/ aqueduct
*Subsidized...../MEDIUM./Medicine/ +2 in all cities, Factory +
*Universal......./HIGH...../Radio/+3 in all cities

As far as Universal Health care being better that Subsidized, sans the upkeep, I think some civics SHOULD be flat out better replacements. Not all of them, but I think simple, clear choices can make the game more fun. Besides, it's available at Radio and has a high upkeep...

 

[frob2900]

The bottom line, for me, is that civics should *only* give benefits. No drawbacks. Firstly because the benefit should be so small that no drawback is necessary, but secondly because then you start to open the can of worms about "Well, if this has a drawback, then why doesn't this?"

Well, I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't fully agree either. There is no reason that certain new Civics can't have disadvantages. Of course, no one would seriously consider rewriting all the old civics (but certain fixes, such as boosting serfdom, might be good ideas).

The problem with "Culture" is that +1 per 10% seems a little weak compared to the +2 from Nationhood with Barracks while +1 per 5% may be too strong. I could change it to +1 per 10% :culture and +1 from Theatres. This is like giving every civ the Byzantine UB, but it might be the best solution.

+1 per 10% is still overpowered. Most people run the slider with at least 10%-20% :culture, so that's a guaranteed +1/+2 in every city! Compare that to e.g. serfdom or vassalage. Hugely overpowered.

The +2 per Specialist is intended as a substitute to the +100% from Free Speech.

Sorry, but I disagree with that justification. There's no reason that an alternate Civic has to "substitute" a bonus of a given Civic. What's the substitute for the +3 of representation in the other civics in that column?

The more I think on it, the more I like the changes frob and I had considered for Aristocracy/Serfdom. it makes a farm-based economy more worthwhile, but it's a potential trap - it won't "age" as well as a cottage-based economy, so the late game could see civs that went too "medieval" getting into trouble with more advanced progressive civs outpacing them, just like in real history.

It also doesn't give you so many great people, so there's a real risk of falling behind in the global tech race compared to full CE or SE civs. So you pay through the nose for your extra . This is of course, quite realistic, taking the example of Russia, which was the last of the major european nations to run serfdom.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

+1 per 10% is still overpowered. Most people run the slider with at least 10%-20% :culture, so that's a guaranteed +1/+2 in every city! Compare that to e.g. serfdom or vassalage. Hugely overpowered.

Not at all.
Nationhood gives you +2 in every city with barracks (and you will have barracks in every larger city by the time), and Representation will give you + 3 in your largest cities. Compared to this +1 per 10% is weak.

Sorry, but I disagree with that justification. There's no reason that an alternate Civic has to "substitute" a bonus of a given Civic. What's the substitute for the +3 of representation in the other civics in that column?

I just wanted to give Federalsim some kind of bonus for specialists and culture seemed to be the most appropriate apart from more Great People.

 

[frob2900]

Not at all.
Nationhood gives you +2 in every city with barracks (and you will have barracks in every larger city by the time), and Representation will give you + 3 in your largest cities. Compared to this +1 per 10% is weak.

In an SE with Representation you could just run 60% culture for an incredibly overpowered empire. Not to mention how easy it would be to go for cultural wins or reduce War Weariness/Drafting unhappiness.

 

[frob2900]

Pizza Toppings

• Tomato Sauce and Cheese. Default. No Upkeep.
• Ham. +1 in all cities. Medium Upkeep. Requires Hunting
• Shrimp, banana and goat cheese +5% in all cities. High Upkeep. Requires Aesthetics
• Anchovy +10 in all cities, +10 in all cities. Medium Upkeep. Requires Fishing
• Salami, onions, olives, paprika, pineapple and double feta cheese +3 in all cities, +1 in all cities. High Upkeep. Requires Biology

(apologies for the double post)

 

[Norbert]

In an SE with Representation you could just run 60% culture for an incredibly overpowered empire. Not to mention how easy it would be to go for cultural wins or reduce War Weariness/Drafting unhappiness.

Well...except that, unless you're planning on going cultural, having 60% of money going towards instead of or will cripple all but a pure SE...

 

[frob2900]

Well...except that, unless you're planning on going cultural, having 60% of money going towards instead of or will cripple all but a pure SE...

Yep, but with that much happiness, a pure SE becomes quite the research/great person/war machine.

I've run 60-70% culture in my SEs (on Monarch) even without a "Culture" civic, and I know how overpowered that extra 6-7 happiness would be.

For a cottage player that civic isn't overpowered, but believe me, for an SE player it is.

BTW. Your sig is one or two lines too long (it doesn't bother me, but it might concern a moderator)

 

[TheAmerican]

Armed Forces Civics

Militia

+1 per military unit.
+2 per military unit outside your borders.
No upkeep.
50% (Great General)
Available at the start of the game.

Civlopedia Entry: At the dawn of civilization, there was no such thing as a standing army or organized military. Civilizations depended on citizens to rise up in times of war to defend their country, or attack another. This was a cheap way to raise an army quickly, however, these citizen soldiers could not match the morale or training of a professional army. Ussually when it came down to it, the average militia member would choose to protect his family rather than fight for his country, making long campaigns impossible.

Mercenaries

+2 per military unit.
+2xp for each unit recruited after switching to Mercenaries.
100% (Great General)
High Upkeep.
Available with Monarchy.

Civlopedia Entry: In times of war nations have paid mercenaries to do the fighting for them. Some nations would have them fight alongside their own soldiers, while others would field entire armies of mercenaries. Unlike the untrained miltias, mercenaries are professional soldiers and they have nothing keeping them from waging an aggresive campaign. Mercenaries are costly though, and they don't have the best interests of their masters in mind, they only care about how much they're getting paid.

Standing Armies

+1 per military unit in enemy territory.
200% (Great General)
Medium Upkeep.
Available with Civil Service.

Civlopedia Entry: Years of dealing with inept farmers and cut throat mercenaries will show rulers the need for a loyal, professional military. The solution to this problem was a strong standing army. Instead of raising an army for a single war, rulers could now keep a strong standing army during peace time and use it to crush both his internal and external enemies. The draw backs to a standing army are the costs of maintaining and training the army, which would be composed of professional full time soldiers. However, this permanent army would provide soldiers and officers with the chance to sharpen their skills during peace time and better prepare for war when it came.

Conscription

200% War weariness.
-2xp for units drafted after switching to Conscription.
Ability to draft units. (No unhappiness for drafting units w/ Nationalism)
100% (Great General)
Low upkeep.
Available with Military Tradition.

Civlopedia Entry: The practice of conscription is forcing men into service for their country. Conscription has been a strategy for desperate nations since the dawn of time, but mass conscription was not possible until the 1700's. As long as a nation has a pool of young men to replace the dead and wounded, they can continue waging war. Conscription can drain a nation's work force however, because those young men are fighting instead of working. Not to mention that the people left behind aren't going to appreciate their sons being sent off to die in mass.

Volunteer Military

50% War weariness.
+1 per military unit.
Free promotion for every unit recruited after switching to Volunteer Military.
100% (Great General)
150% (Great General) with West Point.
High upkeep.
Available with Communism or Fascism.

Civlopedia Entry: A volunteer military is a professional military composed of volunteers. There are no conscriptions, or pressing citizens into military service. Citizens enter the military of their own free will and are often well rewarded for their choice to do so. Volunteer militaries tend to be smaller though, and harder to maintain due to the lack of manpower and the benefits handed out to those that do serve. This means that conscriptions and mercenaries are still the prefered choice of poor, or desperate nations.

 

[Prebral]

Minority policy

Cohabitation
Default.
No upkeep.
State does not have a minority policy. Includes cases, when loyalty to ruler or state idea is requested, but all citizens are equal in it.

Forced assimilation
Req. Monotheism.
High Upkeep.
-1 diplomatic modifier with a respective civ for each city with a minority over 30 percent.
Your civilization influence grows 1 percent each turn in each your city and does not decrease.
+100 percent state religion spread within cultural borders.
State strongly encourages assimilation of minoritites, no matter if in a violent or peaceful way.

Group superiority
Req. Feudalism.
Low Upkeep.
+ 2 in each city with cultural majority of owner civ.
+ 20 percent in each city with state religion.
+ 10 percent and +1 in each city with an other civ's minority over 30 percent or a non-state religion. Not cumulative.
One of cultural groups is considered to be superior to others and rules the state. Other minorities are equal in their inferiority. State does not attempt to assimilate minorities on a large scale, just rules them. Includes things like nomadic empires, british imperial "White man's burden", some islamic states through history etc.

Apartheid
Req. Constitution
High Upkeep.
No religion spread (includes state religion and missionaries).
+ 30 percent chance of enemy spy failure, enemy passive espionage requires 100 percent more points
Each city garrison unit is counted twice when determining cultural flip probability.
Minorities are tending to be separated. Some of them may be considered inferior, but not necessarilly - this can range from a federal state with parallel institutions to a completelly rasisitic state. In this civic system, Apartheid differs from Group superiority in an important way - societies with a Group superiority try to incorporate minorities into the state, even if in an inferior position. Apartheid societies just want them out of the sight and doing no mess.

Multicultural
Req. Democracy
Medium Upkeep.
+ 10 percent culture for each non-state religion present in a city.
Allows to build civ-specific units and buildings in each your city, where the respective civ minority is over 30 percent. Only one instance of a building type can be built (you can build an Obelisk, a Stele or a Totem pole, but not all three of them)
- 25 percent
Minorities are encouraged to keep their way of life within few basic limits to increase cultural diversity of the state.

 

[Ghandi33]

Surely someone can come up with a civic that involves Chuck Norris!