Making of "Brave New World" - article from Polygon

[ImperialChaos]

Haha we're mentioned in the article for the achievement theory.

 

[mitsho]

Agreed, I was scratching my head on that. I think maybe they aren't telling us everything, because I thought they had included Indonesia for one of two reasons (1) Fan requested or (2) Major empire in Asia. It could very well be those were taken into account, but the modern presence was most important to them. For Brazil, however, the modern presence as the main reason makes more sense.

Yeah, I didn't even mention the significance of some sort of Indonesian civilization...

I think it makes sense. They expand honorably, without stealing tiles from neighbors and angering them, but this might provoke the neighbor anyway especially in MP when you are eyeing a piece of land but Shoshone snatches it away from you with ease. Historically it makes sense. Gameplay wise the defensive bonuses make sense

Oh surely it does make sense on some level. But it's the same thing as India which is also best played quite conquest oriented (as happiness bonuses helps most with that). I just don't think most Shoshone games will be particularly peaceful as it's a balance of expansion and units. Just like Egypt and Wonders. There are other more peaceful civs like the Netherlands or Siam who don't benefit from war.

The article is interesting, but it's very headscratching at the same time...

 

[Nujabes]

The article is interesting, but it's very headscratching at the same time...

A bit, but it's nice to get a more incisive look at Firaxis' thought process, and it's a good way to spill the info on the last two civs. Even though they didn't make Sacagawea the leader, I have to laugh a little bit that they even considered her. Too bad about the Pueblos, since I'm still kind of cold on the Shoshone, but at this point I'm ready to play, and this article is nice little hype boost.

 

[I_qua_I]

I thought this quote was interesting:

"The original design for the Dutch civ called for them to be able to reclaim land from the sea..."

It makes me wonder exactly how that would have/was imagined to work out.

 

[Louis XXIV]

^ Well, obviously, it didn't.

Anyway, excellent article. Something I'd been hoping to see for quite a long time. As someone who studied history and is fascinated by it, it's great seeing Firaxis share the passion. This is especially true with one of my favorites: Assyria. That discussion alone did them justice.

I do like this quote a lot:

"When I was working with ... the art lead, Mike Bates ... whenever there was a concept for Enrico Dandolo, I would be like, 'More evil! He needs to look more evil!'" says Lewis. "Because I feel like the game works great when you have guys that are just bad guys, that you root against. As you know, we can't use Hitler or anybody like that, so we have these guys that are historically ... that were evil toward a certain group, great rivals. We had the Byzantine empire in Gods & Kings, and now we have the Venetians in Brave New World."

I think Venice will be fun.

ETA:

The Pueblo stuff in the article contradicts what was said at PAX and makes little sense on its own as well. At PAX they explicitly said the Pueblo Council's objection was that Popé was a sacred figure, and they didn't want him as a video game character where he could be the bad guy or get defeated. Now the article says their objection was that they consider their language too sacred to put into a game--despite the same article pointing out that the Pueblo peoples have a variety of different languages, implying there were lots to choose from aside from the sacred one. Whodawhatnow?

I really don't have time right now to look up the quote, but I don't think the specific objection was made back then. However, they used "leader" and "Civ" interchangeably, which led people to think the objection was to the leader, not the Civ. This led to the argument that they might not have dropped the Civ, they just dropped the leader, with the suggested reason that Popé is highly honored. I don't think this was Firaxis's suggested reason back then.

 

[Liufeng]

It's still a little sad to see almost confirmation that civ V will stop after BNW. There is still room for so much (sigh).

 

[HemlockMartinis]

Haha we're mentioned in the article for the achievement theory.

I'm surprised Menzies didn't get a shout-out for the Venetian color theory.

 

[crawf0rd]

I can only imagine the anger in this forum if sacajawea was chosen...

 

[stealth_nsk]

It's still a little sad to see almost confirmation that civ V will stop after BNW. There is still room for so much (sigh).

After second expansion each Civ game balances on the edge of overdesign. Falling to it, in my opinion, at least for and . There are just too many things added which loosely fit the original game design. With BNW we have 4 types of trade between cities, for example.

It's ok to throw out the game after this and start from scratch. I just hope they'll have time and resources to think about possible features for expansion and make ground for them in Civ 6.

And, surely I hope for DLC and substantial patches for .

 

[Loaf Warden]

I really don't have time right now to look up the quote, but I don't think the specific objection was made back then. However, they used "leader" and "Civ" interchangeably, which led people to think the objection was to the leader, not the Civ. This led to the argument that they might not have dropped the Civ, they just dropped the leader, with the suggested reason that Popé is highly honored. I don't think this was Firaxis's suggested reason back then.

I'm not talking about the discussion afterward, I'm talking about what was actually said at PAX. I could swear the guy said specifically that the Pueblo Council didn't want Popé himself in for exactly that reason. I could be wrong, but I'm sure I remember him saying that.

 

[Tsuchinoko]

It's still a little sad to see almost confirmation that civ V will stop after BNW. There is still room for so much (sigh).

Yeah - that was one bit of news I didn't want to hear... I really hope it's wrong, but they sounded fairly certain about it. I'd much rather Firaxis produce another expansion than move on to Civ 6 already.

 

[Greizer85]

While the Venetian player can't control what its puppet city-states produce, the civ does get more trade routes than any other civ, which generates more money, faster, for the Venetians than other civs will have access to. It can also purchase units in its puppets, making it possible to generate large armies in far-flung corners of the world.

"The puppet's just going to keep its normal production cycle, building all the buildings it needs, but you can buy an army there," says Beach.

What am I missing here? Did they edit the article? It's clear from this how Venice will work... Pity imo that you can't buy buildings, but I suppose it'd be a tad bit overpowered.

 

[Buccaneer]

"Bad guy" meaning a tough aggressive opponent or something that you have to pretend but not related actions in the game?

 

[Louis XXIV]

I'm not talking about the discussion afterward, I'm talking about what was actually said at PAX. I could swear the guy said specifically that the Pueblo Council didn't want Popé himself in for exactly that reason. I could be wrong, but I'm sure I remember him saying that.

I went back and double-checked, you are correct, my bad.

 

[wigwam]

Nice concept for an article, and there's some great information there, but it really could've been better—seems they didn't get all their facts straight, for one thing.

Oh well. Did we have confirmation of Kilimanjaro and the source of the Nile as new natural wonders before now?

 

[mitsho]

After second expansion each Civ game balances on the edge of overdesign. Falling to it, in my opinion, at least for and . There are just too many things added which loosely fit the original game design. With BNW we have 4 types of trade between cities, for example.

It's ok to throw out the game after this and start from scratch. I just hope they'll have time and resources to think about possible features for expansion and make ground for them in Civ 6.

And, surely I hope for DLC and substantial patches for .

Agree with you, but that doesn't mean we can't have a content - as opposed to gameplay mechanism/system - pack. With new civs and scenarios and some balance changes (f.e. regarding naval combat). But see the other threads on that

Oh well. Did we have confirmation of Kilimanjaro and the source of the Nile as new natural wonders before now?

Kilimanjaro is new, but a bit dissapointing, I would've wanted some NW that isn't a mountain... The Source of the Nile was confirmed as being Lake Victoria. That of course doesn't mean they are not having both...

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Beach says that if there's anything left over that he might have wanted to include in Civ V, after a full game and two expansions, it would be the ability to zoom out to reveal a globe-shaped world (a feature lost when Civ moved to a custom game engine) and the ability to terraform. The original design for the Dutch civ called for them to be able to reclaim land from the sea, but this proved to be impossible within Civ V's existing game engine.

That's very interesting

As for Civ V, Firaxis is confident that, after seven full years, it's put the game to bed as finally and completely as it could have.

BTW. If they will make the Shoshone a city spamer, they gonna be even more annoying than Hiawatha.

 

[InsanelyApple]

It's still a little sad to see almost confirmation that civ V will stop after BNW. There is still room for so much (sigh).

I think I remember them mentioning if the fans want another expansion, we'll get another expansion. (Probably depending on sales.)

I'm surprised Menzies didn't get a shout-out for the Venetian color theory.

That surprised me too.

I can only imagine the anger in this forum if sacajawea was chosen...

 

[m15a]

overall, i really liked the article, too. (minor stylistic complaints with some of the language but whatever.) i like seeing all the factors that go into designing the civs and that it's "more of an art than a science". the story elements about venice and shoshone are really intriguing.

"Bad guy" meaning a tough aggressive opponent or something that you have to pretend but not related actions in the game?

well, every civ other than the one you're playing is, strategically, a "bad guy." (. . well, if that's how you play the game.)

 

[ehecatzin]

I wouldnt dismiss another expansion just yet, if sales are good enough we could as well get another one.

However its nice to see that if they werent green lighted to make another one, they feel like BNW leaves CiV in a position to be playable for years to come, quite a feat considering the horrible mess Vainilla was.

Tho I would look forward to CiVI as long as they kept Ed Beach and Dennis Shirk on charge. It would be really interesting to see what kind of Civ game they would make from the ground up.