[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

[AriochIV]

Nice. I like the way Mansa looks.

 

[Nikolai II]

I looked at the leader screen and Mali gets -30% production when constructing building and training units. So buildings and units will be more expensive to build?

That sounds like bad news combined with less production from mines.



Mines receive -1 production. (BOO!!!)

So? Just buy it.

 

[Leucarum]

Random thoughts:
Internal vs external trade will be an interesting choice, compensate for bad production or get more gold and some diplomatic kudos...

These must be a tougher civ than maori to balance...

Wide empires seem like they are going to be challenging to develop for these guys due to every city needing gold or faith to buy the best buildings along with competing demands from your millitary...

Overall, I'm looking forward to seeing these guys and feel like maybe firaxis played it safe on power level... And thinking that's a good thing in this case.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Random thoughts:
Internal vs external trade will be an interesting choice, compensate for bad production or get more gold and some diplomatic kudos...

These must be a tougher civ than maori to balance...

Wide empires seem like they are going to be challenging to develop for these guys due to every city needing gold or faith to buy the best buildings along with competing demands from your millitary...

Overall, I'm looking forward to seeing these guys and feel like maybe firaxis played it safe on power level... And thinking that's a good thing in this case.

Yeah, people might or might not end up being correct about the hammer penalty, but I have a feeling that without that they would steamroll.

 

[BrotherInJah]

+4 gold on EVERY mine is nice bonus..
-1 cog early is problematic, but with later techs it will be neglected..

Guess you need a lot of hills, bunch of workers to spin that wheel, after that it's self sufficient.

One note all are missing, buying things takes no time.. how many times you build things you really don't need as there is nothing worthy to build.. your cogs are generally wasted, there's no bank for production. And with money you buy thing when you actually need that, leaving your production for WW.

It reminds me cottage eco fro civ4 vs communism, but this time only one civ can pull this.

I like it a lot

 

[DJ_Tanner]

That's the problem in this thread. Everyone's excuse for this civ is just "buy it". Well this game is not 1:1 when it comes down to gold and production. The math does not add up like that. Also there is that problem of buying things like builders and settlers cost increasing everytime you buy one. OOPS!

Unless you can get 400-500 GPT by the time you get knights, this Civ is probably going to fail.

No the real problem is the assumption they can't build anything. Mali gets to do both, so it shouldn't be a 1:1 translation. Purchasing offers an instant benefit and, rightfully, is more expensive than via production. But every new Mali city starts off way stronger than anyone else's new cities. Since you can buy in ANY city not just a "perfect" city location. Mali can still build like anyone else, but since they get such a leg up on the buying side, the building side takes a hit. That said, if you really need to build something, you are going to have a million trade routes, and trade routes, much like Ryan from the OC, can be anything you want them to be. Need more production, trade route, need food, trade route, need science, trade route, need faith, trade route, need culture, trade route, need happiness, I don't know get a dog or look for greater meaning in your life. Well trade routes provide ALMOST everything. The thing is that building is not the main way Mali does things, but they still can and will have an ability to build buidlings/units here and there it just isn't their primary method. They are basically a reverse civ, where normally you build everything and buy the occasional item, here you buy everything and then build the occasional item.

Also that increased cost to builders/settlers impacts if you produce them normally as well, so I don't see how that hurts Mali anymore than anyone else.

 

[local_hero]

Also I was very confident - and apparently very wrong - that the unique CD would be the Ottomans.

Mali needs a half cost commercial hub better

I think they look fun. Probably not a civ with the fastest wins, but with Moksha, Reyna, Theology, Grandmaster Chapel etc, I think this looks interesting. Mali should get Desert Folklore often too.

Numbers are subject to change, so let's see how slow their starts will be when we get our hands on the game.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Faith Generation with Mali is going to be insane.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

While my first thought was that Mali should pick Desert Folklore, there's a pretty compelling case for grabbing Lady of Reeds and Marshes to get production from flood plains and Oases, since Mali will be hurting for Production early.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

While my first thought was that Mali should pick Desert Folklore, there's a pretty compelling case for grabbing Lady of Reeds and Marshes to get production from flood plains and Oases, since Mali will be hurting for Production early.

Like gold, Mali seems like the most flexible civ. I think pantheon choice is going to be varied for, which is nice seeing as they are going to have first dibs.

 

[Steamboat Willem]

Should be pretty doable to get a Classical Golden Age with Mali:
1 Era Point for settling in desert
2 for the first Pantheon
3 for a Splendid Holy Site with Desert Folklore
3 for buying a Great Prophet with Faith
5 for founding the first religion
1 for Classical Era with Currency
4 for building the Unique Commercial Hub

That's 19, the other 5 you should just get from exploring and Amani.

Then you pick Free Enquiry and it's off to the races.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Gold to production ratio is 6 to 1. However, if you have Carthage then as Mali you can buy all of your military. .

 

[MarigoldRan]

Should be pretty doable to get a Classical Golden Age with Mali:
1 Era Point for settling in desert
2 for the first Pantheon
3 for a Splendid Holy Site with Desert Folklore
3 for buying a Great Prophet with Faith
5 for founding the first religion
1 for Classical Era with Currency
4 for building the Unique Commercial Hub

That's 19, the other 5 you should just get from exploring and Amani.

Then you pick Free Enquiry and it's off to the races.

No. Monumentality is better given Mali's crazy Faith generation. You will never need to build a settler in the early game which kinda cancels out Mali's production malus.

Mali will be all about getting classical Golden ages and steamrolling everyone with Monumentality and either Desert Folklore or Harvest.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

While my first thought was that Mali should pick Desert Folklore, there's a pretty compelling case for grabbing Lady of Reeds and Marshes to get production from flood plains and Oases, since Mali will be hurting for Production early.

Or maybe city patron since the first district is so important? Nah, the math probably doesn't work out there.

Heh who am I kidding I'd probably just pick desert faith

 

[Jewman]

Gold to production ratio is 6 to 1. However, if you have Carthage then as Mali you can buy all of your military. .

buying a ton of chariots before you unlock mandekalu should be enough to hold you most of the game sprinkling in new troops with faith buys later.

 

[MarigoldRan]

You're looking at +12 faith generation/city in the early game with Desert folklore. +18 with the Holy Site adjacency card.

Mali has become the #1 Faith Civ in the game, even better than Russia because they get their Faith just by having a city NEXT to desert tiles (unlike Russia which actually have to work their tundra to get Faith).

Furthermore as Mali its easy to get Classical or Medieval Golden Age.

 

[Guandao]

With Reyna and Moshka you can buy districts too.

Who's Moshka? You mean Moksha?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

They feel like the New Civ5 Morocco to me, which makes me both happy and sad.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Who's Moshka? You mean Moksha?

Sure. One of the Governors I currently never use.

 

[Alexadamz]

While my first thought was that Mali should pick Desert Folklore, there's a pretty compelling case for grabbing Lady of Reeds and Marshes to get production from flood plains and Oases, since Mali will be hurting for Production early.

That is exactly what i went for with my last Gilga game in Giant Earth YnAMP. Sumeria TSL is just foodplains, so I lacked production for about 20 or so turns. Gladly it starts next to usually 2 religious CS, so easy to get those first envoy for free faith and early pantheon. Even easier as I globled Jerusalem settle before it even settled, and I could settle Jerusalem for myself right next to Dead Sea, getting 2 free Faith rightaway too. After Lady of Marshs and Reeds I didn't have any problem with production anymore.

I guess Mali will be awesome for one kind of map I really enjoy playing, the TSL one. All the Sahara is not very fitting for city settling for pretty much anyone else, as it lacks food, but Mali gets that for free.