1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Many Leaders Game 2 - Sword Training

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Ozbenno, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. ChrTh

    ChrTh Happy Yule!

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2001
    Messages:
    6,255
    Location:
    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
    @Ozbenno et al.

    The next couple weeks are looking pretty slammed, and I have serious doubts of my ability to play. If one of the players who has already finished (or I guess GreyFox hasn't started yet?) would like to pick up my save and play on to completion, that would be fine by me. The second post of this thread has all the links so you can see what I did and what I was planning on doing. Feel free to change strategy ...

    ...just please don't start each report with 'I have no idea what the hell ChrTh thought he was doing'
     
  2. mice

    mice Moose

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,180
    Location:
    tundra
    Spoiler :
    No need for pictures. Half the set was building this stack.



    Then a declaration on Alex. The idea is to use the UU to the max. Edit; previously posted that I didnt use draft, but I did, a lot. I just forgot because it was one week ago.

    A lot of this,



    and finally the fall of Athens.

    Alex capitulates.



    I have a strong ally now and gift him a lot of units and techs.

    I dont trust Kublai to join a war against Churchill. If I could trust him to attack Churchill it would be better because I would have muskets against maces/LB, then upgrade Oromos to rifles to take Kubali.
    Attacking Kublai puts my drill 2 promo to nothing against his knights. So I have think about that one.


    The idea is to use apostolic diplo to make domination more sure. That and using vassals to fight for me. I like both these game mechanics.

    The long term goal is to have all civs fight with me to kill Mehemed in a religious war. Before that I need Kubai and Churchill on side,vassalised , or compelled by the Apostolic vote. Washy will fight with me as an ally.

    I get this option,



    but I want to wait till 'Kub' and 'Church' are reined in.

    Printing press in, Taj brings a golden age , tech next to banking to cash in on the three holy cities.

    I'm way behind other players but I'm enjoying this game.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,693
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Here's the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/Gilgamesh_AD-1700.CivBeyondSwordSave

    Spoiler :
    Bascially got liberalism, took democracy, had a golden age, teched to steel while building crossbows and trebs. Declared on Alex, upgraded cats and trebs to cannon and massacred the greeks. War started in T211, ended in T240 (29 turns), captured 8 cities and annihilated the greek civilisation. Losses 4 (vulture, mace, 2 cannon), kills 145 (10 sword, 24 phalanx, 10 spear, 6 archer, 48 LB, 25 ele, 22 cat). Then declared on Gandhi T246, captured one city so far, four more to go including Delhi with AP, shrine and 6-7 wonders.

    Tech rate has been slow due to running cash for upgrading units to grens and rifles and running culture 20% to cope with WW.

    Techs:pP, lib, demo, gunpowder, theo (trade), chemistry, steel, milsci, RP, miltrad, steam, rifling, railroad, 4 turns from AL. Been avoiding astronomy (Colosuss) and scimeth (Glib, monasteries).

    Picked up 2 GG, both medic3s, should pick up another by the time I've wiped Gandhi, probably get another from fascism. Still haven't built HE or WP (didn't have a lvl4unit until greek war).

    Got 5 GPs: prophet, GE, GS, 2*GM. GS due in 6.I'll probably use 2 GPs for corporations (but can't decide which to go for) and runanother Golden Age once Gandhi is no more.

    Switched to Buddhism (AP religion), got my colony (Babylon) to switch to Bud as well. Founded 2 gem island city and gave it to colony, also gave Babylon a greek city on request.

    Didn't build any wonders (one turn from SoL).

    Overall I'm doing ok in most areas but not doing really well in anything. Decent army, 1000 beakers/turn, about 20 cities. Still aiming for space. Haven't founded any corporations but that will be coming next set.
     
  4. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,449
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    @ChrTh, no worries. Just come back to it yourself (if you want) in a couple of weeks. If you don't think you'll be able to get back to it, maybe a loyal lurker or GreyFox will finish it off.

    @mice

    Spoiler :
    Nice stack :goodjob:

    Is the UU any good?
     
  5. Conroe

    Conroe √∞

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,592
    Location:
    Texas
    Dutch Civilization
    Turns 200 - 250

    Spoiler :
    When we last visited our Dutch protagonist, he was busy teching like crazy trying to decide what to take for the Liberalism race. I've given up on the idea of setting a goal. Rather I'm just going to keep an eye on the AI research and grab Liberalism when I see someone getting too close. For the time being, nobody is even close to researching Liberalism.

    I managed to pick up the circumnav bonus on my first turn. I'm not really sure how, though ... seems to me that my maps were a mite lacking. :crazyeye: I went ahead and closed the gap anyway.



    I had started training some Settlers at the end of the last turnset. That continued during this set of turns. Two of the cities were placed on the mainland. The first was a city placed north of the choke city.



    Alas, I forgot one very important detail when planning this city. I'm Dutch! :blush: The city is not on a river, nor coastal. The city was unable to build the Dutch Dike UB. Especially frustrating, since I had hoped this would be a production city, despite the gold and floodplains. :gripe: But alas, I would eventually find another use for this city. The other mainland city was a coastal fish village NW of the capital. It picked up the sheep and deer.



    The remaining city was built over on the marble island. It picked up the sheep and iron. It should be a fair production city once the Dike is built. I did note something rather odd, though. Prior to founding a second city on this island, the marble city's city maintenance did not include any of the new overseas expenses. One of the new features that was added in BTS was the increased city maintenance expenses of cities on a different continent. After I built the second city, though, the costs were included in both cities. Odd ...



    I also noticed that at the beginning of this turn set that I was 3 turns away from popping a Great Scientist from my copper city. And, my capital was 4 turns away from a Great Spy. I decided that I preferred a Great Spy, so with a touch of MM, a Spy Academy was built in the capital to go along with the earlier settled Great Spy.

    Meanwhile ... A Great Merchant trade mission to the Temple of Artemis did wonders last turnset for my research slider. That worked so well, I decided to do it again. :D Last time the GM was compliments of Colossus and the Great Lighthouse. This time it was the free GM that comes with Economics. Once again, he went to the Temple of Artemis city of Delhi.

    But before that GM could reach the city of Delhi, Colossus and the Great Library would give birth to another Great Merchant. Frankly, I was hoping for a Great Scientist. A GS had a 60% chance. The GM was only a 25% chance. Needless to say, two trade missions later and the research slider didn't drop for ... Well, I'm not exactly sure when it came off of 100%. It was at 100% for at least 40 turns. With about 6 turns to go, I noticed the slider was at 60% and I was out of cash. Frankly I had just stopped paying attention to it. :crazyeye: With BTS's new random events, being broke isn't something I like to be. I prefer to have a little cash in the bank should something arise ...

    After completing Economics, it was time to have a look at the Dutch UB: the Dike! Research was set to beeline Steam Power. All other builds were put on hold until Dikes were completed.

    The Taj Majal, which was started last turnset, was completed in the capital. Some readers may recall that I lost my bid to build the Mausoleum, thus it was only an 8 turn golden age. And of course, golden ages mean no anarchy. So a quick switch to Pacifism and Caste System ... and 6 turns later ... with an 80% chance of a Great Scientist ... my GS was finally born! He was sent off to the flood plains city to build an Academy. The city has been fully cottaged. Even the ivory and one of the wine are cottaged. Eventually that riverside wine tile will produce 10 commerce on its own. A shame the ivory plains tile isn't riverside. With a Dike and US it could have been a 4 hammer cottage. Still, 3 hammers ain't bad for a cottage ...

    I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the message that Khan had switched to Free Religion. :eek:



    I'd been watching so closely! I hadn't seen anyone research Liberalism! Had he lightbulbed it? What went wrong? A check of the F4 screen, though, shows no techs available for trade. :huh: And then it occurred to me ... Khan must've been the one that built that new wonder that allows all of the religious civics. Phew! And after putting on a clean pair of shorts ...

    This close call really got me to thinking about how I was risking losing the Liberalism race to a random lightbulb. And even though I didn't appear to be in any danger at the moment, it was probably better to just go ahead and take my free tech. I'd kinda been putting it off because all of the expensive techs require me to obsolete one or more of my wonders. :crazyeye: Not really a good reason. So, I decided that the Great Lighthouse would be the first. This would allow me to research Corporation and take Assembly Line. Infantry would be handy ... I'd been annoying the AI lately, as I refused to join them in their petty wars and declined the demands for free techs. Sorry folks, techs are for sale. ;)

    Ahhhh, but when the time finally came ... Liberalism was but a 1 turn tech. I just couldn't do it. :nope: None of the AI had Education. In fact, every AI lacked either Paper or Philosophy or both. I decided to research Scientific Method next, instead of Astronomy. To obsolete the Great Library rather than the Colossus. But, the big guy's turn would be coming soon.

    Well, next in fact. Astronomy would open many doors for the Dutch. Not only Observatories, but also the East Indiaman UU and the Privateer. The Observatories were put up almost everywhere. And I even managed to churn out four Privateers, as well. More on them later ...

    After Astronomy would come Physics. The free Great Scientist would be used to lightbulb Electricity. From there, Assembly Line and ... Liberalism? Well, that is the plan at least: to take Industrialism from Liberalism. But I ran out of time. I've still got 3 turns left on Assembly Line after playing my 50 turns. I'll probably go ahead and do it this time. Churchill has just started researching Education. Frankly I was expecting Gandhi to be my competition.

    On the very last turn, Khan came to me with a demand that ... frankly, it made me laugh.



    "Peace comes with a price" he says? :lol: He's fighting a war with Keshiks and I'm 3 turns away from Infantry ... and peace comes with a price? :dubious: :lol: If he had asked for a tech or cash, I would have responded with "bring it on, baby!" but a resource is a small price to pay to avoid the annoyance of a war. All the same ... I'm starting to lean towards researching Flight and building a few Bombers. :devil:


    Too many images, so I've continued to the next post ...
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Conroe

    Conroe √∞

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,592
    Location:
    Texas
    ... continued from previous post ...

    Spoiler :
    We are supposed to be evaluating an area of emphasis in this MLG event. My emphasis is the power of the sea. The ability to bring hammers out of the waters and exploit that in the form of a naval power. Thus far, I have neglected that emphasis. Let's face it, the Galley hardly makes one a superpower and I'm sure you've all seen Caravels in action. ;)

    But during this turnset, I've finally researched the necessary techs. Namely, they are Steam Power, Chemistry, and Astronomy.

    Up first, is bringing hammers from the sea. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the Maoi Statutes that have been added in BTS. This national wonder puts a hammer in every water tile. It is quite a boon for that one city that is able to build it. But the Dutch -- with a Dike -- can do it in every coastal city!

    One of the things that absolutely amazes me is the synergies of the Dike and Maoi. Below is a look at Amsterdam (running Bureaucracy) after having built both the Dike and the Maoi Statutes. There is also a Golden Age and the Colossus is still in effect.



    Three hammers and five commerce from each coastal tile. :wow: Also notice the hammers on those riverside cottages. This is not Universal Suffrage! :nope: That is from a Dike.

    Ahhh ... but Golden Ages don't last forever and neither does the Colossus. So here is a look at Amsterdam after having added the IronWorks to the existing Dike / Maoi combination.



    Note that Bureaucracy is still in effect. However, Universal Suffrage and Free Speech still are not. I'm really looking forward to seeing what this city looks like when I do revolt to US.

    Ahhh ... but the IronWorks can make any city look good, right? But what about that fur city? I don't recall who said it, but someone referred to it as their Expletive Ice City.



    Not too shabby for a fishing village, I say. :smug: No civics nor no wonders, just the Dutch Dike.

    I'll leave you with just one more screenshot of the Dutch Dike in action. The sheep and iron city over on the marble island. With access to Biology allowing an extra workshop, it is a pretty fair production city. But give that city to the Dutch ...



    The problem with the Dutch UB is its place on the tech tree. It requires Steam Power. I'd be shocked to learn that the Dutch didn't start building Dikes and Levees until after they understood the principles of Steam Power. :crazyeye: I'm guessing that such a powerful building would probably be a bit unbalancing if it came significantly earlier on the tech tree. But by placing the building this far back in the tech tree, there is a very real possibility that the game will be over before the tech is even learned.

    In addition, at 180 hammers, a city will need to have a bit of production already in place to even build the Dutch Dike. But of course, midgame fishing villages could certainly have the Dike mushroomed in or even eventually whipped.

    But enough about buildings. What about the navy? After learning Astronomy (I already had Chemistry), I quickly built 4 Privateers and sent them out. The problem, though, is that most of the AI are only now beginning to research Optics. My Privateers began sinking the exploring WorkBoats. You don't even gain experience from sinking a WorkBoat. Instead, I decided to park these ships outside of various AI cities and order them to use the new blockade ability.



    Its not bad money considering that it is only 4 ships. Notice that the Indian capital is producing considerably more than the other cities? That is from the Temple of Artemis. Unfortunately, the AI don't seem to want to build Harbors in BTS as they did in earlier incarnations of the game. But, targeting larger cities with the extra trade route enabling buildings can pay dividends.

    I don't really think I'll be able to fully explore the capabilities of the Dutch East Indiaman at this difficulty level. The strength 4 Galleon is most likely enough of a match against these AI opponents. The much stronger Dutch UU could be a factor though at higher levels, where the AI have sent in the Privateers and the player is the one lacking Chemistry. The East Indiaman will also prove useful in transporting Spys to rival civs that refuse to open borders. The Dutch can use their UU and send 4 at a time. Other civs will be forced to send 1 Spy at a time aboard the slower Caravel. But alas I've seen little use for Spys in this game, except for counter-espionage.
     
  7. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,045
    Hey, Oznenno, i was thinking, how about making a Many Leaders Game 3?

    Instead this time, i was thinking of using Unrestricted Leaders! that would be very fun. Want to give it a try?

    Anyway, i'll be playing my set in a few minutes.
     
  8. Kodii

    Kodii Ka ICE

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,687
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I actually think I heard some buzz about an AW MLG... :mischief:
     
  9. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,449
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Let's get this baby to bed first before we think about the next MLG. I do have some ideas though.....
     
  10. FeedBack

    FeedBack Time for some FeedBack!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    I was starting to hear my wife yelling again...
    Or something like that. I think getting this over first will give me a little time to fix relations up a bit. Or not. :lol:

    But a rather crazy MLG next should be good. AW, Unrestricted Leaders, Random Personalities, Fantasy Realm map... :drool:
    And to add a little spice to it, I shall play it completely drunk! :crazyeye:
     
  11. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,449
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I just get The Look and a "That's nice dear!"

    :lol: You'd never guess the boys at DM have covered that one.

    Drunk SG
     
  12. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,045
    *notices Rex, Imhotep and Greyfox there*
     
  13. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,449
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Well we have 3 final submissions (Kodii, azaris, FeedBack), 5 ongoing submissions (Ozbenno, TriviAl, mice, pigswill, Conroe), one promise (TLO), one apology (ChrTh) and one absentee (GreyFox). Can the other 5 (Sealot, Bindamel, vra, r_rolo1 and Jet) let us know if they are on track for Saturday or want an extra day?
     
  14. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,045
    On the Roman Series!

    Spoiler :

    I decide to just say the important parts of my game:

    After seeing Feedback one a domination victory, And Ghandi is already my vassal (did not attack him) I decide that i will try to go for a domination victory as well.

    Cities i built:

    (on marble island) ^
    City which is just directly SE of my capital

    City which i nicknamed "furville"


    Captured the barb city at 7 pop...

    And this little town!
    Captured Libyan.


    Wonders:




    I declared on Churchill and took:

    Warwick (no IMG)
    York (no IMG)





    (decide to keep it, the mongols are my next target)

    And churchill is wiped of the map.

    Got liberalism and used it to get economics.

    And teh save:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/108694/MLG2_AD-1740.CivBeyondSwordSave


    Notice how long it takes to play. Started playign at 5 ended at 8:38...
     
  15. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,045
    Also i forgot to mention, i have a golden age going on. (7 turns left) and looks at this cute city!



    It's that fur city up north.
     
  16. Bindamel

    Bindamel Call me Bindy - mel

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    Messages:
    348
    Location:
    GMT - 5
    All set ;)

    Hammy, Round 5 – Yes Sir, Ozbenno, Sir!

    Spoiler :
    Ozbenno says get Gandhi, so we get Gandhi:



    Two bad things happened during the war: The first was my :smoke: in not properly garrisonning the Apostolic Palace city once I took it, and Gandhi was able to retake it and still owns it; the second was the forced 10 turn peace treaty between Gandhi and myself due to a vote to cease hostilities.

    I didn’t want to defy, because I’m in good position to become the AP leader, once I crush Gandhi. I had some good luck with the AP, at first.

    First vote:



    Wow, I can live with votes like that. Even better, Churchill sided with me:



    Vote number two, while the war continued on:



    Uh oh, it’s that time. My cursor hovered over defy, but I chose no. Fortunately for me, so did Chuchill:



    I was only 17 votes short of being able to singlehandedly prevent peace.

    Vote number three, in which I wasn’t so lucky:




    Now I’m only 15 votes away from being able to impose my will.

    I was able to redeclare near the end of the turnset. I’m currently throwing cannon and grenadiers against Gandhi’s longbowmen.


    The resource trade screen, that can start to get confusing, can’t it?

    I reduced my espionage spending versus Gandhi, as he will be dead, hopefully soon. I found the best deal to be this:


    For less than 100 points every 10 turns or so, I got a fair number of uncovered spies in my territory.

    The state of the game thus far (1700 AD on top, 1400 AD on bottom):



    It goes faster as you get closer to domination, honestly! ;)

    Oh, one more thing: I'm not sure I like the partisan thing. I'm killing two longbowmen and a spearman to raze a city and four macemen are popping out of the woodwork? It's more work to clean up after razing the city than it is taking it in the first place.

    I ended up keeping Gandhi's not ideally placed city on my eastern coast because I didn't have the firepower to deal with the macemen.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,364
    Spoiler :
    1410 Alex asks me to declare on Churchill and I politely decline, along with every other request in this turn set.
    1430 Sankore
    1510 Liberalism (Nationalism)
    1540 Economics (first) and also a Great Prophet. Save Merchant for a corp and settle Prophet in capital.
    1555 Missed Notre Dame to India. Was building it in a secondary city. Uncool.
    1600 Taj.
    1610 Scientist (my second one), settled in Oxford city.
    1615 I notice that in the window between Gunpowder and Rifling, Duns give Guerilla to Musketmen. Sha-weeet. I haven't build many Musketmen, though.
    1625 Rifling
    1635 Settle Gems island uncontested. They're really not making it easy to be a warmonger!
    1640 another deal: world maps with Gandhi
    1645 Taj GA -> Artist (Music) GA. Research is healthy:

    1665 meet Mehmed, and remember to change economic civics. Also change Government and Religion civics.
    Now I'm in Representation / Vassalage / Slavery / Mercantilism / Theocracy.
    1675 Settle another scientist in Oxford city.
    1685 Artist GA ends.
    1695 Lose Grocer to hurricane in Bibracte.

    1700 Power:



    Stack in choke city:



    ...aaaaand it's on:



     
  18. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,449
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Spoiler :
    Respect my authoritay! ;)

    Can't see any of the piccies though.
     
  19. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,449
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    @Jet - :lol: That's going to be a fun next set for you!
     
  20. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    13,818
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    I'll finish my game today.....was having problems finishing the Lonely Hearths Club game ( some CTDs ) and I wanted to play it before this one ( to start the second instalement saturday )
     

Share This Page