March Patch Notes (formerly february)

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One (or two) man's nerf is everyone else's idea of striving for a better balance.

Pretty much. IMO, the changes lead to better balance between Tall and Wide empire styles.

Now, whether or not you think the two styles SHOULD be balanced is a different matter; It's a large part of Civ5, so IMO it's one of the "Get used to it or play Civ4" things.

They needed to increase science costs which they did, but they also needed to increase Research Agreement costs or do something else with them, i'm now still going to spam them every chance i get so those near 100% increased cost modern techs will still be instant for me. :rolleyes: :wallbash:

i just don't get how they can make a change like that & forget to balance Research Agreements which are directly involved in its balancing. :confused:

I really hate having half my techs end up been instant everygame... Please change this.

If you hate it so much, don't use it.

Though I agree, costs on it should be dynamic, based on the potential research amount.
 
GAMEPLAY
Golden Ages now provide +20% production per city rather than +1 hammer per tile

I wonder if this works out to a net gain or loss in production late game with all the building modifiers factored in.

BALANCE CHANGES

Game Rules
Cities must now have three or more tiles in between them (1 more tile than before), unless separated by a sea/coast tile.

I like this. Now you actually have to make decisions about city placement instead of just cramming it in and ignoring terrain. This actually hurts the AI more than ICS humans IMO.

Cities now only get 1 free production and 0 free gold (1 less in both cases)

Dislike.
Balance pass on production and maintenance costs throughout the game.

Specifics? What the heck does this really mean?
Buildings
Aqueduct added (entirely new building). 40% of Food is carried over after a new Citizen is born.
Palace boosted to 3 gold and 3 production
Granary gives bonus 1 food for Wheat/Banana Deer; cost reduced
Market and Bazaar provide 2 gold (as well as +25%)
Workshop provides 2 production (bonus reduced to +15% but affects ALL production); cost increased
Like all.
Stable gives bonus 1 production for Sheep/Cattle/Horse and can be built with Sheep or Cattle; cost reduced
Cathrine's plains horses will now be borderline IMBA.
Forge adds +1 production to each source of Iron

In addition to or in place of current benefit?

Reduced Colosseum happiness to 3, and reduced maintenance to 2 gold
Reduced Theatre happiness to 4

If they want to improve big cities, why are they nerfing happiness more?


Academy increased to 6 Science.
Landmark increased to 6 Culture.
Manufactory increased to 4 Production.

These help a little, but with your first scientist still coming so late, I still don't see myself building an academy except with Babylon. Even with all the possible modifiers, that's only 24 beakers a turn? Hardly noticed late game.


Policies
Tradition: Culture border expansion discount in cities placed on Tradition branch opener. Discount increases over the course of the game. Also grants +3 Culture in the capital.

France OCC culture victory anyone?
Legalism: Provides a free Culture building in your first 4 cities.
Like this but what is the building? How much culture does it give?

Oligarchy: Garrisoned units cost no maintenance, and cities with a garrison gain +100% ranged combat strength.

This is actually really nice. Combine it with military caste and suddenly you've got a new way to ICS? :D (Don't tell Firaxis or they will nerf it :lol: ).

Landed Elite: +15% Growth, and +2 Food per city.
Good for both ICS and small empires. Hey now you can set your cities on production focus and they'll still grow at least once.

Monarchy: +1 Gold and -1 Unhappiness for every 2 Citizens in your capital.
This is much better. Instead of 33% less unhappiness we get 50% less (except for India) and we retain the +1 gold. combined 2 poor bonuses into one solid one is always nice.

Liberty: +1 culture per turn in every city.

Moving this to liberty and bumping the settler down makes things interesting.

Collective Rule: Settler production increased by 50%, and a free Settler appears near the capital.

And getting a free settler on top of just the production bonus makes up for it!

Citizenship: Worker construction rate increased by 25%, and a free Worker appears near the capital.

Free worker. Hmm, which policy path to take. All the choices are good now. Nice patching Firaxis.

Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

This is terrific. Now you can ICS and still might get a few policies after all. I wonder how many turns the golden age is.

Order: Reduce Order production bonus to 15%.

Meh. The +5 from communism was the more significant boost anyways.

Meritocracy: +0.5 Happiness for each city connected to the capital, and a free Great Person of your choice appears near the capital.

The free great person is nice. Lots of ways to go with that. Head straight for this and get an academy, rush a tech, rush a wonder, do a trade mission get a free ally and 500 gold?

Wonders
Colossus no longer goes obsolete

Finally. Still don't know if I'll ever build it though.

Civ Unique Bonuses
Doubled culture from kills for Aztecs

About time. We'll see if it's enough.


Overall a really nice patch. They didn't nerf ICS, but instead made it more gradual and natural. Now you can still ICS, but you might put it off until later. The first 3 policy branches provide all that is needed. If you manage to get to Planned economy, you will get getting +0.5 net happiness per city without Forbidden Palace and have a massive, gold free defensive army waiting on standby and buffing your cities quite substantially. If you can pull off Stonehenge and Oracle it will be real easy to do.
 
Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.
ok, someone do the math for me on whether or not this makes a culture victory viable for big empires. either way it looks like liberty is going to replace commerce, patronage, or order on the must-have social tree list for the culture victory. Even if you only have one city it's like a free Micheal Angelo's chapel.

it's -33% for next policy, +30% for all future policies (standard size map), which makes the math somewhat complex. on huge maps it'll have a big impact. it's also going to depend on when the -33% is applied (ie stacking with free speech / cristo), and i'm curious what will happen with multiple cities founded. i assume only one -33% because otherwise founding 3 cities would grant a policy.
 
it's -33% for next policy, +30% for all future policies (standard size map), which makes the math somewhat complex. on huge maps it'll have a big impact. it's also going to depend on when the -33% is applied (ie stacking with free speech / cristo), and i'm curious what will happen with multiple cities founded. i assume only one -33% because otherwise founding 3 cities would grant a policy.

With Representation, the cost of each successive policy - which always goes up with each new city - will now go up 33% less than it otherwise would have.
 
I'm guilty of neglecting to mention Thal's mods. I still think some credit goes to econ mod - e.g. buildings modified by resources.
More buildings modified by resources is hardly a rip-off from mods. Merely an extension of what's already been in Vanilla (think Seaport, Circus, etc). Heck, even I have proposed much the same.
 
So, if I am reading this right, does this mean a OCC India will never have unhappiness ever?
 
Ok, have you ever seen a CS build nukes? Have you seen them actually have uranium? The only thing that this prevents is them building Project Forever while they don't have workers (and they won't build one because they're building something special...) because they lost it in a war and there's Oil in their lands...now that pissed me off last game.

Well, I was curious if they could. If they could previously build nukes, I'd love it. But if they couldn't, this is a great change. I wonder if you can gift nukes to City States (or aircraft for that matter, now that I think about it).
 
After reading this, I would say that Liberty is once again the tree of choice. 3 policies in, and you've got a worker and either a free tech or free wonder (or with a GL rush, both).
 
After reading this, I would say that Liberty is once again the tree of choice. 3 policies in, and you've got a worker and either a free tech or free wonder (or with a GL rush, both).

I disagree... The majority of the benefit of Liberty is immediate, as soon as you adopt it. This compares nicely with Tradition, where all effects are longterm, and will apply over the course of the whole game... I think it becomes an interesting decision.
 
I was really disappointed with Civ5 when it came out and stopped playing it after my second game. I just got back into giving it another go last week. I found Thal's balance mod, and the entire time I've been playing it, I just kept thinking I wish these changes were in the default game! I'm so glad to see some of them adopted. I wish they would adopt some of the UI improvements or make them usable in Multiplayer.

Now they just need to fix/finish Multiplayer and get the AI up to par. Maybe let me save a game? All in all, very pleased to see this patch.
 
More buildings modified by resources is hardly a rip-off from mods. Merely an extension of what's already been in Vanilla (think Seaport, Circus, etc). Heck, even I have proposed much the same.

Well of course. A lot of the modding so far has been just an extension of what's allowable in vanilla. People who go ahead and make the changes, try them out and publish them deserve credit.

I never called it a ripoff. I meant to say (I admit I didn't make it very clear) it's an idea that was tried in econ mod and I'm sure countless others. Many of the earliest requests for things to be modded were about buffing resources by having a particular building in the nearby city. Thal's mods delved into this idea with several buildings as well IIRC.
 
I did spend quite some time working on a UI mod (new GP info panel; Think the GP bar from Civ4's BUG mod, on steroids), but I'mg going to be releasing that shortly after the patch.

Quick screenshot:
Spoiler :

H_u_r_r_y UP!
I want me some of these progress bars for GP. Not that BlakeTheGreat's GreatPeopleInfo isn't useful already... but he hasn't yet touched the "TopPanel" coincidental access flaw, AFAIC.
And to join the current trends... some exact ETA for it?
Early March!
;)
 
H_u_r_r_y UP!
I want me some of these progress bars for GP. Not that BlakeTheGreat's GreatPeopleInfo isn't useful already... but he hasn't yet touched the "TopPanel" coincidental access flaw, AFAIC.
And to join the current trends... some exact ETA for it?
Early March!
;)

It'll go out as soon as the patch does. Or shortly after. May have to update slightly.

To give credit where due: It's partially composed of material from BlakeTheGreat's mod (which I had on hand as I included it in the Economy Mod), and on AGS's ResourcePanel.

Much of the actual implementation changed heavily, though. Was rather necessary, given the differences between a sortable screen displaying graphical data, and mouseover help. :crazyeye:

Edit: BTW, clicking each line in the list works just like in the City Panel. Right-click to zoom to the city, left-click to open that city. Can be clicked anywhere in the line for each city (including the GP bar). Additionally, you can sort within each (minimizable) heading by either City Name, or Turns Remaining. Like I said, GP Progress Bar on steroids. That panel utility should be used more; It has a LOT of potential, for putting detailed information at the hands of the player. ;)
 
I guess I like quite a few of the changes and dislike some.

So the patch will tell, since I'm on Steam, I'll find out whenever it happens.

But I already feel, I'll be short on gold and settlers will be MORE expensive???

Now what?
 
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