Bibor
Doomsday Machine
I will, I haven't updated that post for a while now. So much stuff to do...
March Patch Notes (formerly february)
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I will, I haven't updated that post for a while now. So much stuff to do...
In the game I am playing the AI civs have mad money + anywhere from 100-300 gpt. And the AI is cheap as they come. I am getting anywhere from 20-30 gpt and feel very poor in comparison. I am on an island full of tundra, it's more like a penal colony and it is producing as much as I can squeeze out of it. Huge map islands, try it sometime.
Civsassin
Immortal
The AI cannot cheat. It follows its programming. It is, however, given bonuses, which increase with each level. If you don't like the AI bonuses, drop down to a lever at which you are comfortable. Otherwise, it is what it is.
joyous_gard
Prince
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I have a chance for a snow day tomorrow. I was really hoping on a patch!! February is almost gone!!
Most people define AI cheat as things the AI is allowed to do by it's programming that would be outright illegal for a human to do.
This is distinct from handicaps where the AI gets bonuses.
Mixed is the case in which the AI continues to get a larger handicap than the human would on the lowest difficulty level.
Civ 1 example of AI cheat: AI periodically granted a wonder
Civ 2 example of AI cheat: AI can irrigate all tiles, even those without access to water. (Human could automate a worker right over an improved tile they wanted to irrigate to take advantage of the same cheat)
Civ 3 example of cheat (that backfired): AI knew where all your units were on the map. It backfired because you could rope a dope the AI by removing all units from the city you wanted the AI to go after and then return the units there when the stack got close and remove units from another city.
Example of AI getting large handicap larger than humans on lowest difficulty level: Civ 4 Unit supply, Unit upgrade, AI Inflation, and AI War Werriousness. First two in particular where the AI paid 30% of normal cost to upgrade its units & 35% of normal cost for unit supply.
There's also "human cheats". Things the human can do but the AI doesn't know how to do at all even at highest difficulty level. In Civ III that was micro manage the science slider to prevent breaker loss and micro manage tile production to prevent shield wastage.
This is distinct from handicaps where the AI gets bonuses.
Mixed is the case in which the AI continues to get a larger handicap than the human would on the lowest difficulty level.
Civ 1 example of AI cheat: AI periodically granted a wonder
Civ 2 example of AI cheat: AI can irrigate all tiles, even those without access to water. (Human could automate a worker right over an improved tile they wanted to irrigate to take advantage of the same cheat)
Civ 3 example of cheat (that backfired): AI knew where all your units were on the map. It backfired because you could rope a dope the AI by removing all units from the city you wanted the AI to go after and then return the units there when the stack got close and remove units from another city.
Example of AI getting large handicap larger than humans on lowest difficulty level: Civ 4 Unit supply, Unit upgrade, AI Inflation, and AI War Werriousness. First two in particular where the AI paid 30% of normal cost to upgrade its units & 35% of normal cost for unit supply.
There's also "human cheats". Things the human can do but the AI doesn't know how to do at all even at highest difficulty level. In Civ III that was micro manage the science slider to prevent breaker loss and micro manage tile production to prevent shield wastage.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
And of course the 'biggest' cheat the human can do: Reload. Well, maybe 'mod' is bigger? That might be a bit too meta.
I think reloading is seen as a fairly obvious human cheat. A less obvious human cheat is restarting the map if you don't like your starting position. The AI doesn't get that opportunity.
I also wonder of the AI knows what kind of map has been picked.
AfterShafter
Deity
While I can't remember the last time I've reloaded and generally frown on restarting any but the very worst tundra/desert borked starts, restarting a map is to some degree a balancing factor. The simple fact is, you're not playing 1 v 1 VS an AI - you're playing against a number of them. You don't have to compete with one relative starting location, you have to compete with upwards of a dozen - and it'll be a rare case where an AI doesn't get a really stacked start. Cheating implies, in my mind, gaining an unfair advantage, when oftentimes players restart just to have a start that would be middling relative to what one or more AI's likely ended up with. Is it cheating if you restart not to gain an unfair advantage but to not put yourself in a randomly assigned position of extreme disadvantage? Sure the AI can't do it, but the AI gets as many chances at a great start as there are AI's in a game - and the player can only approximate that by restarting.
Besides, in general, "cheating" is relative. The game - actually, any Civ game ever made - is absolutely loaded with things ranging from flat AI bonuses to human metagaming that could be looked at cheats. The balance of the game is meant to include what many people call cheating. If the game is designed to operate that way, aren't we going a bit overboard calling things in it cheating? Heck, I'll bet Sid Meier and Jon Shafer restart - and while I think people in this forum would find reason to critique Shafer giving money to starving orphans, are you going to tell Sid he's a cheater?
Bandobras Took
Emperor
I don't think he works on Civ. He has the real world to work on.
noncognosco
Warlord
Another human cheat...discussion forums.
He can give them stacks of money, but he can't give stacks to us???
.....sorry, carry on everyone >.>
Civsassin
Immortal
@joncnunn
Perhaps it's semantics, but I call all of those things bonuses. If the AI doesn't get bonuses, there is no challenge for normal, reasonable human players. Interesting that you didn't have an example of a CiV AI bonus that is out of the ordinary. However, I'm sure there are some, but again, they are just equalizers. You still have the choice of dropping the level to below Prince; now you get bonuses abover the AI, and the AI is much more restricted. There are no human cheats. There are things that the human mind can consider that the AI programming doesn't permit. That's called ingenuity, not cheating.
Perhaps it's semantics, but I call all of those things bonuses. If the AI doesn't get bonuses, there is no challenge for normal, reasonable human players. Interesting that you didn't have an example of a CiV AI bonus that is out of the ordinary. However, I'm sure there are some, but again, they are just equalizers. You still have the choice of dropping the level to below Prince; now you get bonuses abover the AI, and the AI is much more restricted. There are no human cheats. There are things that the human mind can consider that the AI programming doesn't permit. That's called ingenuity, not cheating.
AfterShafter
Deity
I'd say adding in units with the Civ IV world builder would probably constitute cheating
But your point is generally well taken.
Civsassin
Immortal
I'd say adding in units with the Civ IV world builder would probably constitute cheating
And I woud agree with you on that point.
I have no problem beating the Deity level (I don't play lower levels), but I'd like that AI is 'smarter' on higher levels, not 'same dork with more money'.
I'd like a moment; 'Wow, how he tricked me there, this level is too high for me'.
Civsassin
Immortal
Don't hold your breath. This certainly isn't GalCiv2, in which higher levels also mean "smarter" AI.
Mustakrakish
Deity
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Where is the damn patch? What the hell!?
Guardian_PL
Emperor
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What do you mean? Did really expect that 2K will keep to their promise? They've promised us a good game before, all we've got was DLC's
Why the obvious "make a deal for a lump sum of money then pillage the improvement" wasn't fixed is beyond me. What was wrong with Civ4 approach, where you couldn't trade resources for lump gold? Or maybe the devs haven't even heard about Civ4?
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