Massive C2C Humans Vs Humans Game/Lets Play Setup

[wolfensoul9]

The last setting says Unlimited national units, not Unlimited national wonders.

Yes, I saw and corrected my error. Went the whole list, and only messed up on the very last word, bah.. sorry about that.

And from what I've heard, the promotions from GC's don't work correctly, and the advanced espionage options are stupendously expensive, due to the calculations not taking into account the huge size of cities C2C fosters.

 

[Thunderbrd]

the advanced espionage options are stupendously expensive, due to the calculations not taking into account the huge size of cities C2C fosters.

Doesn't mean its broken really... just subject to some tweaking.

As for why the GCs aren't working correctly, or if they aren't... I'm not sure why that is really. HOW they work is rather odd coding for me to interpret. But we could still put it in the game with knowledge of the problem, pending a possible fix down the road.

 

[Il Principe]

I would also like to join ( might get stomped since I rareley play on deity )
Advanced start NO
No city razing NO
No city flipping from culture NO
City flipping after conquest YES ( minor point to me )
No barbarians NO
Raging barbarians NO
Aggresive AI haven´t tired it yet, but yeah why not
Unrestricted leaders don ´t care
Random personalities NO
Choose religions NO
No tech trading NO
No tech brokering YES
Permanent alliance (Now THAT would be interesting) that would be fun.. but NO
Always war NO
Always peace NO for gods sake
One city challenge NO
Always war or peace (randomly picks either always war, or always peace, I assume) still NO
New random seed on reload NO
Lock modified assets What's that doing anyway?
Require complete kills hmmm don´t know
No vassal states NO
No tribal villages (goody huts) NO
No events NO
No espionage NO
Barbarian world NO
No REV NO! NO ! NO! did I mention NO?!
Limited religions don´t care
No inquisitions NO
No barbarian civs (Barbs cannot spontaneously turn into a civilization) NO
No Tech diffusion NO( but not important to me)
Start off as minor civ maybe
Multiple production YES
Multiple research YES
Usable mountains YES
Surround and destroy YES
Advanced diplomacy YES
Unlimited wonders NO
Barbarian generals hmmm never used it but might e fun so YES
Assimiliation YES
Final five NO
High to low NO
Increasing difficulty NO
Ruthless AI maybe
Great commanders YES
Culturally linked starts don´t care
Personalized maps YES
Advanced economy YES
Realistic culture spread YES ( it does make things way more interesting in the beginning i think)
Larger cities without metropolitan administration NO
Realistic corporations YES but also not important
Barbarians always raze NO
United Nations (Enables construction of the U.N. even if diplo victory is disabled) YES
Advanced espionage YES
Modern corporations YES
Advanced nukes YES
Divine Prophets don´t care
No city limits from civics NO. I actually like those limits
No fixed borders NO
Infinite exp NO
Unlimited national units NO

Long list now that I look at it

I don´t realy care for map size or the map type itself ..will try to work with whatever is given.

I would be willing to make a text next play with screens for it ( something new for me.. but might be fun ). Here in the forums and maybe copying it to other forums


As for bug options:
Archer bombard
Oportunity fire
Basicly everything in the spy and air force department.
Influence driven war of course
Multible religions
max rebase range X, where X depends on the map size.. for large maybe X=15
Terrain damage
pre chop forests
And I think relgious decay would be fun
If we play with rev i furthermore think detailed rev index values is a must.

EDIT: Forgot dynamixXP... yes it slows down XP gain.. but killing a Neanderthal Warrior or a mighty pigeon should not give the same XP

 

[wolfensoul9]

Oof...these BUG options...I have no idea how most of them work, such as opportunity fire, and detailed rev index, influence driven war, and all the spy and air ones the above poster mentioned.


Can we just limit the BUG options to be voted on to just terrain damage, or something? This is starting to get really complicated...

I really don't want to play with something I don't even understand...

I just think we should try to keep this as "simple" as possible.

 

[Thunderbrd]

EDIT: Forgot dynamixXP... yes it slows down XP gain.. but killing a Neanderthal Warrior or a mighty pigeon should not give the same XP

Even without Dynamic XP, you still have variable XP based on how tough the fight was. A one strength unit is going to benefit handsomely from taking out said Neanderthal!

As for bug options I overlooked:
Opportunity fire: I updated a fix to this just yesterday so I suppose its a Yes for me.
Basically everything in the spy and air force department. : I THINK I agree
Influence driven war of course: Yes
Multiple religions: Yes
Max rebase range X, where X depends on the map size.. for large maybe X=15: None is my preference
pre chop forests:NO NO NO! This option is irksome.
And I think religious decay would be fun: Never used it as I don't think I'd like it but a report from Shenn showed it isn't working very rationally anyhow so... NO
Resource Depletion: NO!!!

If we play with rev i furthermore think detailed rev index values is a must.

Agreed but I wonder if you've been careful with the No options to make sure that you've voted according to the check box yes or no, not to the feature yes or no - make sure you're influencing with the appropriate double negatives where necessary.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Agreed but I wonder if you've been careful with the No options to make sure that you've voted according to the check box yes or no, not to the feature yes or no - make sure you're influencing with the appropriate double negatives where necessary.

These snagged me as well.

Everyone make sure to double check your posts carefully.

 

[12padams]

Ok everyone I've added your votes up to post 11! Remember that everyone may only vote once because I could very easily be tricked if you vote twice... and also its a very slow process to write up all your votes. I put the limit to 20 people but should it be 10 because 20 people is way too many in my opinion...

Also when it comes to lets plays... I would prefer if more people were doing them (haven't checked past post 11 yet) because if I am the only lets player and I die then there could be a massive problem! Who would log the end showing who wins? That's why I recommend at least 50% of the players lets play this in some shape, size or form! The more lets players the more publicity this will get and the more interesting it will be to watch and read the war from all sides!

 

[Thunderbrd]

Ok everyone I've added your votes up to post 11! Remember that everyone may only vote once because I could very easily be tricked if you vote twice... and also its a very slow process to write up all your votes. I put the limit to 20 people but should it be 10 because 20 people is way too many in my opinion...

Also when it comes to lets plays... I would prefer if more people were doing them (haven't checked past post 11 yet) because if I am the only lets player and I die then there could be a massive problem! Who would log the end showing who wins? That's why I recommend at least 50% of the players lets play this in some shape, size or form! The more lets players the more publicity this will get and the more interesting it will be to watch and read the war from all sides!

For me... it depends on how I feel about it as I go. I may... but no promises since while playing will take a fraction of my time, chronicling it would take much more. And I'm constantly trying to work on the mod here too.

 

[12padams]

Ok I've updated all options as of post 12 but... Nobody else vote for now because I have found a better way to do this. I will still include those who voted before this message though.

Also I found a way to keep the whole game logged by those doing lets plays but ill explain that later... Just a note though... Those doing lets plays of some sort will be at an advantage over those not doing lets play but the advantage will only be active if they are the last remaining lets player in the game that has not yet been knocked out.

Also for the version we will use... Basically the latest available full release. So v27 until we all update when v28 comes out and so on. That way we will kinda remain up to date yet it won't be a hassle to keep up with everything on the svn making sure we are in sync.

Oh and when we start playing... That's at the very least a week away. I'll make the save file and user setting file which you must have (otherwise some may have terrain damage while others might not).

 

[Hydromancerx]

Resource Depletion: NO!!!

Oh come on that would be fun to have real players and that option on. Especially if you only source of say iron is depended and you have to beg someone else for it or learn to do without.

Agreed but I wonder if you've been careful with the No options to make sure that you've voted according to the check box yes or no, not to the feature yes or no - make sure you're influencing with the appropriate double negatives where necessary.

That's why I did checked (X) or unchecked (0) so it would be clear what settings I was voting for.

 

[Praetyre]

Well if timezones aren't an issue, count me in; my only regret is that I won't get to see ls612's revised timeplan in action.

 

[12padams]

Should we pin/sticky the massive human vs human game tracker post when I create it? That way it can be viewed easier for those playing and keeping up with it...

 

[12padams]

I added an explaination of the lets player advantage to the first post but for those who didn't see it I've added it here to:

The Let's Players Advantage:
To allow this whole game to be logged from beginning to end by at least one lets player I have added a "Let's Players Advantage". The game will be completely normal and fair while there is more than 1 let's player alive. Once/If it gets to the point where all but one lets player is alive versing only non-lets players then that lets player will gain the "Let's Player Advantage" for the rest of the game. This advantage basically means that no other civ/player is allowed to destroy that let's players last city unless the game has only 2 human players left (the lets player and non-lets player). So you can destroy all their cities and units except for their capitol. You may kill units defending their capital but as long as you leave at least one unit defending their capital. The lets player advantage is disabled when its down to the final two players.
--------------------------------------------------------

Feel free to comment on what you think but remember... It's not a huge advantage! Lets say it was quill18 and me with 4 other non lets players. Who's quill18 gunna wanna kill? ME! If a lets player can wipe out all the other lets players then they can guarentee themselves a spot in the top 2. So really there's a lot of tension for the lets players and the fact that others can watch what they are doing and planning (if others playing watch their lets play which has commentary or future plans). So overall that lets players advantage balances out with the disadvantages of lets playing.

Oh and also... I've added a minimum amount of 4 lets players required to be in this game out of a max of 15 players (15 is already insane and any more would just make it impossible to coordinate with a play by email game). Personally I would have the limit at 10 myself but you know... I'm guessing a little more people may want to join us. The reason is that I want the game to be seen from a variety of view points. That way this game will get the most attention and be even more fun to watch with a variety of people you can follow or go for.

Now there is one more thing we need to discuss. Players giving up in this game. Obviously it's gunna be a slow game due to the amount of human players and some people may want to give up... That's fine but if this happens that person must trade all their cities for free to the lets player with the lowest score. Not only will that keep our lets players in the game but it will encourage more people to be lets players in this game. After a successful trade of their cities is complete then that player can resign.

Lastly how the lets playing will work... You can let's play in any format you like but all our episodes must be in sync with Eachother. I will set the official episode turn lengths in the official human vs human game tracker thread which will be created as soon as I create the save file. The first post will list all the players and links to the lets players episodes (written or videos). I will officially set the first episode at 10 turns meaning whatever your doing for a lets play the first episode must contain the first 10 turns of the game. The first episode will be short just so we can get some content up ASAP since its most likely gunna take at least 2 weeks for those 10 turns...

 

[Koshling]

Count me in. Here is my voting.:

World Size
- Large or Huge (beyond that my computer cannot take it)

Speed
- Epic or Marathon

Map Type
- PW2F or Perfect Mongoose

Victory
- Don't care

0 = Don't care
+ = On
- = Off

Advanced start = 0
No city razing = 0
No city flipping from culture = 0
City flipping after conquest = 0
No barbarians = -
Raging barbarians = -
Aggresive AI = -
Unrestricted leaders = 0
Random personalities = 0
Choose religions = 0
No tech trading = -
No tech brokering = 0
Permanent alliance = -
Always war = -
Always peace = -
One city challenge = -
Always war or peace = -
New random seed on reload = -------
Lock modified assets = N/A
Require complete kills = -
No vassal states = -
No tribal villages = -
No events = -
No espionage = -
Barbarian world = -
No REV = -
Limited religions = 0
No inquisitions = 0
No barbarian civs = 0
No Tech diffusion = 0
Start off as minor civ = 0
Multiple production = +
Multiple research = +
Usable mountains = +
Surround and destroy = +
Advanced diplomacy = 0
Unlimited wonders = -
Barbarian generals = 0
Assimiliation = +
Final five = -
High to low = -
Increasing difficulty = -
Ruthless AI = -
Great commanders = +
Culturally linked starts = 0
Personalized maps = 0
Advanced economy = 0
Realistic culture spread = 0
Larger cities without metropolitan administration = -
Realistic corporations = -
Barbarians always raze = 0
United Nations = 0
Advanced espionage = 0
Modern corporations = 0
Advanced nukes = 0
Divine Prophets = 0
No city limits from civics = 0
No fixed borders = 0
Infinite exp = 0
Unlimited national Units = -

Minor Settings
- Terrain Damage[/QUOTE]

A few miscellaneous questions:

1) Have we decided what difficulty level?

2) Have we decided to just use random leaders or do we get to choose? (my vote is random)

3) How does diplomacy work in a PBEM game?? (never played one, but I can't really see how it would work)

Edit - oops, sry for the old style voting - hope you can add them up ok Also, I'll probably do a blog-style reporting with textual storyline style and some pictures, so count me as a casual let's player for the purposes of this game.

 

[Il Principe]

I think diplomacy might work just like in a hot seat game: You send an offer, the next time the other player is in his/her turn they can react in whatever way they fit, once you are on again, you can see the result ( or counteroffer ).

A question about the BUG options: Will we be forbidden to change anything , or are we allowed to change the interface ones? Which buildings are shown in the list or not, civ traits when hovering over the flag, scoreboard options, the way worked tiles are displayed and so on.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Now there is one more thing we need to discuss. Players giving up in this game. Obviously it's gunna be a slow game due to the amount of human players and some people may want to give up... That's fine but if this happens that person must trade all their cities for free to the lets player with the lowest score. Not only will that keep our lets players in the game but it will encourage more people to be lets players in this game. After a successful trade of their cities is complete then that player can resign.

Usually resignations are handled by turning your nation over to an AI player. I'd really prefer that result as it maintains the game's 'integrity' really. Besides, as a player, sometimes being gifted cities far off in the distance is a BAD thing, and having an opponent resign, giving all his cities to opponents I haven't even met yet, is another imbalancing element. Much better to just leave a new AI in the game in your wake.

A question about the BUG options: Will we be forbidden to change anything , or are we allowed to change the interface ones? Which buildings are shown in the list or not, civ traits when hovering over the flag, scoreboard options, the way worked tiles are displayed and so on.

We're not looking at a simultaneous game so there should be no reason we can't adjust Bug options to our heart's content EXCEPT for those that affect others. So really, Pre-chop is one we shouldn't even be voting on as that's fully valid for individual choice.

Thus
Terrain Damage Needs to be agreed on (and should've been a Game Option as a result)
Archery Bombard (+2, -1) Needs to be agreed on (and should've been a Game Option as a result)
Stack Attack (+0, -2) = -2 Needs to be agreed on (and... you get the idea...)
Storms - (+1, -0) = 1 Needs to be agreed on (but should still be an in-game option as you might start with it but want to eliminate the added processing eventually. In a PBEM game like this there should be no processing issue here.)
Dynamic XP (+1, -2) = -1 Needs to be agreed on (probably should've been a game option but it was nice to be able to toggle to see the difference in play throughs.)
Resource Depletion (+1, -2) = -1 Needs to be agreed on! (And should be a game option)
Multiple Religion Spread (+1, -0) = 1 Needs to be agreed on (And should also probably be a game option)
Opportunity Fire (+1, -0) = 1 Needs to be agreed on (And thus should be a game option)
Influence Driven War (+1, -0) = 1 Needs to be agreed on (And should be a game option)
Multiple Religions (+1, -0) = 1 (huh??? Did we mean Multiple Religious spread?)
Pre Chop Forests (+1, -0) = 1 (No need to agree)
Religious Decay (+1, -1) = 0 (Should be agreed on)
Detailed Rev Index Values (+1, -0) = 1 (hmm... Should be agreed on I think but makes sense as a bug option)

BTW, I'm fairly sure vote tallies aren't adding up here in this last part correctly. Maybe we should start over the voting on those?

1) Have we decided what difficulty level?

2) Have we decided to just use random leaders or do we get to choose? (my vote is random)

3) How does diplomacy work in a PBEM game?? (never played one, but I can't really see how it would work)

1) I believe we were at a consensus of all at Noble?
2) I believe we were at a consensus of Randomizing Leaders AND Civilizations?
3) You send an offer and its either accepted or received on their turn, not so immediate but you can send messages with it too

 

[ls612]

I'd be willing to try this and see how far it goes. I have a couple questions though first about the PBEM setup, as I've never tried that before.

1. How are the emails sent? I ask this because the email I have with this forum has my real name in it and so if I have to give out my email I'd make a new email address for this game.

2. How long is the setup process going to go? IE, how long will we wait before filling the remaining slots with AIs?

3. Will this be a continuous SVN deal? or will we stick with a version the whole game?


Anyhow, my preferred settings;

Map
Epic (It's PBEM for goodness sake, let's not make it too long)
Huge PM3 (I'd like Gigantic but I understand not everybody's comp could take it)
Start in Old World

Gameoptions
No tech brokering
Start off as minor civ
Multiple production
Multiple research
Usable mountains
Surround and destroy
Advanced diplomacy
Unlimited wonders
Barbarian generals
Assimilation
Great commanders
Culturally linked starts
Personalized maps
Advanced economy
Realistic culture spread
Larger cities without metropolitan administration
Realistic corporations
United Nations
Advanced espionage
Modern corporations
No fixed borders

BUG Options:
Terrain Damage
Archery Bombard
Dynamic XP
Resource Depletion
Multiple Religion Spread
Opportunity Fire
Influence Driven War
Multiple Religions
Religious Decay
Detailed Rev Index Values

 

[Koshling]

I'd be willing to try this and see how far it goes. I have a couple questions though first about the PBEM setup, as I've never tried that before.

1. How are the emails sent? I ask this because the email I have with this forum has my real name in it and so if I have to give out my email I'd make a new email address for this game.

2. How long is the setup process going to go? IE, how long will we wait before filling the remaining slots with AIs?

3. Will this be a continuous SVN deal? or will we stick with a version the whole game?


Anyhow, my preferred settings;

Map
Epic (It's PBEM for goodness sake, let's not make it too long)
Huge PM3 (I'd like Gigantic but I understand not everybody's comp could take it)
Start in Old World

Gameoptions
No tech brokering
Start off as minor civ
Multiple production
Multiple research
Usable mountains
Surround and destroy
Advanced diplomacy
Unlimited wonders
Barbarian generals
Assimilation
Great commanders
Culturally linked starts
Personalized maps
Advanced economy
Realistic culture spread
Larger cities without metropolitan administration
Realistic corporations
United Nations
Advanced espionage
Modern corporations
No fixed borders

BUG Options:
Terrain Damage
Archery Bombard
Dynamic XP
Resource Depletion
Multiple Religion Spread
Opportunity Fire
Influence Driven War
Multiple Religions
Religious Decay
Detailed Rev Index Values

We absolutely should NOT (IMO) actually use email to send the game around - just use a file-share of some sort. I still think SVN is the best choice (it means we have a permanent record of saves that way too so we can bug-fix off them later). All PBEM requires is some way to send save games around, not necessarily actually email per se.

 

[ls612]

We absolutely should NOT (IMO) actually use email to send the game around - just use a file-share of some sort. I still think SVN is the best choice (it means we have a permanent record of saves that way too so we can bug-fix off them later). All PBEM requires is some way to send save games around, not necessarily actually email per se.

Oh, that's a great idea. We should have a separate SVN then for the game, as that could get confusing with the actual changes that are going into our SVN.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Sorry to have a sudden change of heart about this, but I'm going to have to bow out of this, for reasons which shall remain undisclosed.

Best of luck to you all.