Master of Mana Xtended 4.0

[CarnivalBizarre]

Just redid the install. There were four errors as listed below:

this is no longer located in C:\Users\Justicar\Desktop\Modules\LoadOrderVitalModules. Verify the items location and try again.
Fourth Load
Second Load
Third Load

This is no longer located in C:\Users\Justicar\Desktop\Modules. Verify this items location and try again.
z_ModMods

Oh yeah, am using the most current version to the best of my knowledge. Master of mana full setup, Master of Mana 2.11 patch, Master of Mana extended 4.1, and this new patch were testing out.

You have the mod installed to the desktop or what? Your paths seems to indicate it was installed in a wierd place, since it should be in C:\"Game directory"\Beyond the Sword\Mods\"Master of Mana something"\Assets\Modules

 

[ivanbin]

It seems that some buildings that require resources dont actually... require them? As Aos Si, I can build the garden (1000 herbs) while having like 400 herbs (and the herbs stay). Same with tavern (needs 300 wood, can be built while having less)

Edit: Also, whats with 38+ strength goblin archers running around my lands?

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

It seems that some buildings that require resources dont actually... require them? As Aos Si, I can build the garden (1000 herbs) while having like 400 herbs (and the herbs stay). Same with tavern (needs 300 wood, can be built while having less)

Some traits gives you possibility to build certain things without resources, although the help text on the trait says this, it does not show when you are in the city screen for construction.

 

[ivanbin]

Some traits gives you possibility to build certain things without resources, although the help text on the trait says this, it does not show when you are in the city screen for construction.

Hmm... I see. So because of my leader i dont pay for garden. Nice.

What is the explanation for the super high strengh barbarians running around? Or am I supposed to constantly feed them my pop?

Spoiler :

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

Wow, are you using some early version or something? Never seen any power over 15 myself, ever

They are usually not that powerful, unless you or computer trade with them, then they grow in power. They are the first challenge in the game until you meet other players and also give some reward to the offensive people by clearing out their places.

If you use the patch I attached in an earlier post the barbarian will found more of them as well during the game.

 

[Justicar333]

Oh sorry, didn't get a notice about the question. No, their in the steam location. However I do most my work from desktop, so I unzipped the file there before copy pasting into the game directory.

 

[ivanbin]

Wow, are you using some early version or something? Never seen any power over 15 myself, ever

They are usually not that powerful, unless you or computer trade with them, then they grow in power. They are the first challenge in the game until you meet other players and also give some reward to the offensive people by clearing out their places.

If you use the patch I attached in an earlier post the barbarian will found more of them as well during the game.

Nah. I'm pretty sure I just have the 4.1 version. Though I was playing MP... Ill have to look into that patch of yours

 

[Tasunke]

yeh, I was fighting str 20 archers and str 30 allosaurs, while Ivan was fighting str 60 archers and str 80 archers .... we had a theory that if u threatened a village/goblinfort/ etc, that particular lair's troops could get exponentially stronger .....

My personal solution to that for the next game was to simply kill off the lairs before they had a chance to ask for slave tribute (or to be threatened by me ...) and also somewhat increasing 'BarbSpeed Percent'

I tottally understand increasing the NUMBER of units .... but increasing their STR by +2 for every threat (or +4 for every orthus taunt) seems a bit extreme ...

This was extended 4.1 .... which is why we now are playing with an unofficial "patch 0.01" which increases Barbpercent to 200 ... (just to be sure) ... its probably using a nuke to swat a fly at that rate ..... but at least the barbs haven't been getting immediately over 20 str now .... (even if threatening almost never seems to happen anymore

--> I was having to fight a stack of str 23 archers while my guys were still str 10-16 .... it was craaazay (magic and withdrawal only thing that saved me)

THIS WAS ON BASE 4.1 EXTENDED ...



----> on Another news, COMPLIMENTS TO THE CHEF!! ... I LOVE!!! this improved economy!!!!! that resources no longer lower with combat is divine, and that improvements costing gold each turn was removed- also divine!! .... even city maintenance seems a bit better, although civic maintenance is still extreme lol ... (profits should be at low upkeep, the rest of the specialties should be at Medium or Low ... Magocracy and Aristocracy at Medium for instance) .... really only Mago/ Aristo/ and Religion are worthy of the 'high' civic upkeep, but even that is a tad o extreme ....

Anyways, just stopping in to say that the Economy has VASTLY improved from everything that came after Wildmana (that is, anything MoM) related ... b/c honestly on the transition from Wildmana to MoM it was just unplayable for most of the versions .... but with 4.1 its actually a pretty decent mod


Also a Question (a criticism, a bonus, and a question) ... my question is ... I've noticed that the Balseraphs get a 100% damage limit version of spells, but it also kills the caster, is this a Puppet-based thing???? Or is this for Balseraph adepts and mages, basically trading in Time+Resources for a potential stack kill??

If the former, how OP!! and if the latter .... Balseraphs need to go Herbalist guild and buy that +reagents arcane trait

 

[Ogi123]

Some balance problems I have found:
-Order is OP like hell, with social order and temple+basilica you can get 90% maintenance reduction that means ICS is a go.
-Liberty is useless +200% number maintenance kills your economy. And civic unhappiness is unrealistic, what Doviello care for liberty?
-Profits cripple AI production early, and 3gp/culture level isn't worth so much penalty.
-Military state penalties are crippling for AI, reducing effects and penalties somewhat would help.
-Dural courthouse reduce mainetance by 50%, normal one by 20%. combine that with junil college and you get -70%. That way to much. Reducing that to 30% would be in line with other UB.
-Overall Dural colleges are OP, they cost 30h and give to many bonuses.
-Grigori can upgrade adventurers without meting tech requirements. Turn 70 2xChevaliers kill all opposition.

Probably some other things that I don't remember.

 

[ivanbin]

There is a zipfile here that might help if you cannot into SVN

Any link to SVN, or a description of changes from the 4.1 download in 1st post?

 

[Auric]

Awsome mod!!! I've noticed many units are blocked though. E.g. Longbowmen are inaccessible to all. Is there a speical reason for it? I think it would be great to have them in the game.

 

[Calavente]

if you use Xtended, for most of the civs you only have access to the- 4-6 "unique units", and to the units opened by religions and guilds (and summons). For example: Sheaim don't get any recon unit (or they get one... but it quickly "upgrades" to a melee demon)

 

[Ogi123]

After installing CarnivalBizarre patch I encountered weird potentially game breaking bug. With MoM Erebus map script, there are sometimes barb cities placed on map. They produce units at astounding pace, in turn 90+ I was attacked by 40+ warriors. Other times they produce ogres (19str) and do nothing with them, they just stay in city. That would be OK if not the fact that in turn ~250 there was about 350 of them. Deleting last barb city on map always causes crash in next turn. If such city is close to player starting location either you get destroyed by endless waves of warriors or expansion in direction of barb city is permanently impossible.
One more question, does mercurians/infernals not getting bonus from military techs was fixed in this patch?

 

[Sezneg]

After installing CarnivalBizarre patch I encountered weird potentially game breaking bug. With MoM Erebus map script, there are sometimes barb cities placed on map. They produce units at astounding pace, in turn 90+ I was attacked by 40+ warriors. Other times they produce ogres (19str) and do nothing with them, they just stay in city. That would be OK if not the fact that in turn ~250 there was about 350 of them. Deleting last barb city on map always causes crash in next turn. If such city is close to player starting location either you get destroyed by endless waves of warriors or expansion in direction of barb city is permanently impossible.
One more question, does mercurians/infernals not getting bonus from military techs was fixed in this patch?

I also experienced this.

Also, I think the barb changes actually made the problem worse than in the non-patched version.

In the previous version, once you knew how to control the STR gain on the barbs, they were tolerable. You spent the chunk of the game cleaning up your borders, but once you cleared them, you were good.

The patch is just... sooo tedious. Barb lairs respawn regardless of fog of war and even inside your borders. I have quit several games out of frustration because killing the same 6 lairs over and over again is just not fun and it prevents me from going to war.

Playing as Illians, I am confused as there does not seem to be a single civic that benefits me that I can use... harvesting, I guess (since cold weather placement basically forces me to go hunting guild almost 99% of the time for first guild).

Can we get a link to the SVN? I will happily keep up to date with your tinkering versions and provide whatever feedback I can.

 

[Ogi123]

Yeah, overall most of changes in this patch, except bugfixes, are questionable. I like for example fixing Grigori guilds so they have five of them. But barbarians are problem.

Other problem is nerfing unit support from buildings, war academy costing 1k stone and giving +1 unit support and +5Xp? No thanks. This makes military state and belligerent realm life enchantment to important. There should be something done with stables, currently any city can build it. This means that knightly order is easy to get. Compare that to fighters guild/arrow tower.

 

[Sezneg]

Yeah, overall most of changes in this patch, except bugfixes, are questionable. I like for example fixing Grigori guilds so they have five of them. But barbarians are problem.

Other problem is nerfing unit support from buildings, war academy costing 1k stone and giving +1 unit support and +5Xp? No thanks. This makes military state and belligerent realm life enchantment to important. There should be something done with stables, currently any city can build it. This means that knightly order is easy to get. Compare that to fighters guild/arrow tower.

Agreed. I'd really like to try playing this mod unpatched with just a little slowing down of the barb str increase.

Really, the STR numbers are not that out of line. I've seen 60+, but a well promoted unit with some military research behind it is easily in the upper 30s-40s, and this is key: magic does percentage based damage, so even those scary 50 str units can be humbled easily.

 

[Ogi123]

To be fair CarnivalBizzare done good job at bugfixing. But yeah I would really like patch witch will roll back most of changes, leaving only fixes. Barbarians as of now are really god-damn irritating, and still lose relevance at mid-late game.

If we are at wish list, I would really like to halve gain from military techs. Otherwise at mid to end game units with affinity lose all relevance. Or as alternative do something about affinity.

 

[Sezneg]

To be fair CarnivalBizzare done good job at bugfixing. But yeah I would really like patch witch will roll back most of changes, leaving only fixes. Barbarians as of now are really god-damn irritating, and still lose relevance at mid-late game.

If we are at wish list, I would really like to halve gain from military techs. Otherwise at mid to end game units with affinity lose all relevance. Or as alternative do something about affinity.

I reread my posts and you are right, my tone sucked. I appreciate the fact that this mod is receiving bug fixes. I disagree with the barb change, but the fixes are definitely welcome!

 

[Auric]

if you use Xtended, for most of the civs you only have access to the- 4-6 "unique units", and to the units opened by religions and guilds (and summons). For example: Sheaim don't get any recon unit (or they get one... but it quickly "upgrades" to a melee demon)

Ok, so it's only the Extended. Are the other units going to be added in the future? With all the vast variety of units the games offers, the mod feels a bit bastardized now. Especailly in regard to all othre options the mod has.

 

[Ogi123]

But that's not actually a problem? I mean increasing unit strength via military techs skips some units, however in previous versions you have for example: horseman->chariot->horse archer->knight line. In theory you have 4 units here, in practice that is single unit. Xtended just give you single unit that increase it strength during game.