esvath
Apprentice of Erebus
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- Mar 27, 2008
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Go to civpedia > civilization > Amurites.
If you see the witches in Amurites unique units, then Xtended is installed correctly.
Master of Mana Xtended
- Thread starter esvath
- Start date
Go to civpedia > civilization > Amurites.
If you see the witches in Amurites unique units, then Xtended is installed correctly.
GenEngineer
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2014
- Messages
- 456
One thing I noticed that may or may not be intentional - Palgadee can't adopt the Octopus Overlords as a state religion for some reason? I started up a game looking to play heavily into the worship of the tentacled masters, and picked her because Spiritual + Lanun = a perfect fit, but once I introduced the OO to my cities (and founded the religion, in fact), the game wouldn't let me adopt it.
EDIT* Also, any tips on focusing experience on a single unit? I tend to like trying for the Epic Destiny Victory whenever possible because it really diversifies the gameplay of each civ, but some of them are really challenging (Ljosalfar need to get Yvain to level 15, but by that point you might finish the instant-win miracle first even if you're not trying, heroes like Os-Gabella or the Mazatl hero come late in the trees, after barbarians aren't exp sources, etc...)
EDIT* Also, any tips on focusing experience on a single unit? I tend to like trying for the Epic Destiny Victory whenever possible because it really diversifies the gameplay of each civ, but some of them are really challenging (Ljosalfar need to get Yvain to level 15, but by that point you might finish the instant-win miracle first even if you're not trying, heroes like Os-Gabella or the Mazatl hero come late in the trees, after barbarians aren't exp sources, etc...)
CarnivalBizarre
Warlord
I would say that most of the epic destiny victories are very much in need of update, some are not possible anymore, and some are for free (Balsheras only have to choose noble district in capital to finish one of their for example, and if they don't they cannot finish at all)
Getting to lvl 20 or 15 with some units are just as you said, too late. So I guess we need to look at those for a major update. I also like to use them as the "real" victory.
Eleven Mars
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2015
- Messages
- 3
Why am I having issues with this.
Installed base MoM and patch. Winrar'd Xtended to folder; dropped "assets" into MoM assets..didnt work. Winrar'd "assets" directly into MoM assets.
No luck.
Help.
Please.
I second your suggestions, and i like the idea of total specialisation with the second district too. e.g. university converts all commerce to science, temple district-> faith, bard district -> culture. That would hamper, bards district and temple district because they would not be as universal any more and culture and faith are easier to get (and thus cheaper) than breakers and gold. But what wourd do warriors District? commerce -> Exp or Production? What about Warehouse, foreign trait and Luxuary districts?
I also like some of the changes Sephi made in ver. 3. Especially visualisation of resource cost in the building queue, change of some plot and modernisation income, e.g. jungle and cottage give breakers and not commerce, etc. Aditionally some modernisations like mana nodes actually have to be worked on to earn their yields. Maybe, now that thanks to CarnivalBizarre dll-modding is possible some of them can be imported.
Greets Psychodad
zoommooz11
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2013
- Messages
- 162
At what turn does the holy city get founded and is it dependant of game speed, or game turns?
Ie on a regular marathon game =1800 turn when ??
or on my modified marathon speed 6000 turns when ??
Also, at one stage I remember there being a percentage chance on the mouse over, with the civ with the greatest amount of faith having the best chance. I assume this is still the case, but the percentage is not shown anymore??
Lastly, are all the new victory condition tied to the miracle victory, individually set for each religion?
BTW, I have added the True Blood mod (not mine-cannot remember who-but he was happy for others to fiddle) from MOM to both the Calabim and ARISTRAKH in my own game if you are interested in spicing up the vamps.
Edit: Noticed that the Aristrakh cannot build their withering hex building, nor the wonder relating to agnostic trait due to being evil, and these requiring a particular culture tech no available to evil alignment.
Edit 2: Where is the amount of food from a killed animal set? In my own game I find that the amount is to high, and civ that don't grow normally (ie scion) get to much of a penalty here.
Ie on a regular marathon game =1800 turn when ??
or on my modified marathon speed 6000 turns when ??
Also, at one stage I remember there being a percentage chance on the mouse over, with the civ with the greatest amount of faith having the best chance. I assume this is still the case, but the percentage is not shown anymore??
Lastly, are all the new victory condition tied to the miracle victory, individually set for each religion?
BTW, I have added the True Blood mod (not mine-cannot remember who-but he was happy for others to fiddle) from MOM to both the Calabim and ARISTRAKH in my own game if you are interested in spicing up the vamps.
Edit: Noticed that the Aristrakh cannot build their withering hex building, nor the wonder relating to agnostic trait due to being evil, and these requiring a particular culture tech no available to evil alignment.
Edit 2: Where is the amount of food from a killed animal set? In my own game I find that the amount is to high, and civ that don't grow normally (ie scion) get to much of a penalty here.
Not into Assets, into Master of Mana folder so the new Assets merge with the old Assets. You should get prompted about a folder already existing and overwriting of files. All those should be answered yes to.
So here are my thoughts:
I think the balance of the commerce types is strongly linked to the balance of the districts.
Foreign trade district:
As you mentioned, it makes it fairly easy to get gold. Maybe you could turn it into a district that improves and/or adds traderoutes. It would fit the name aswell.
Sage district:
The usefulness of sage district is related to the usefulness of science which is, as you mentioned, smaller in mom than in vanilla ffh2. In vanilla ffh2 science = progression, in mom science = a part of progression, because things from the science tree got migrated to guild, sacred knowledge, or spellresearch (dont get me wrong, i like this concept
). In the lategame this district is also less useful, because you have reseached most of the important technologies already and science doesnt directly help you win (unlike the bard of faith district, that directly help the culture or miracle victory). It is a nice district, if you want to get more spellresearch, but then you dont want the sage district but the following district. To make the sage district more attractive, you could add a bonus to the great person rate or something maybe. This would allow for strategies, that are supported by a focus on sage districts.Nobles district:
I think this is the most powerful of the three basic districts. Culture is useful and the happines bonus can get very powerful, especially later in the game. You can easily get 4 extra happiness, which can lead to 4 extra population. And 4 people can do quite a lot for you. Compared to the sage district, the nobles district also unlocks significantly more buildings. I think you should reduce the culture income to 1 culture/population. And the extra trade route bonus should be moved to the money district (cant remember the name, sorry). Im really not sure though. Im just posting my thoughts
Faith district:
I like the idea of turning gold into faith (like one of the science buildings turning gold into science). It forces you to build money districts, too, to balance your economy.
Bards district:
Not really sure...
Regarding culture and faith victory:
I think culture victory should require at least 2 cities with the highest culture level. You wont be able to put all the nice culture producing wonders in one city. Having to split them among several cities should make things a bit more interesting and this victory more challenging.
The faith victory is often too easy. When i dont ignore religion and dont conquer all my enemies early, this is usually the first victory-option possible to me. Increase the faith cost of the sacred knowledge could work, but i usually feel, these knowledges get unlocked at the right time. Its only the victory miracle that you can achieve too early. I increased the faith cost to 12500 in my games, but this might not be the best solution. I like, that the AI declares war on you, when you are close the victory, but you can prepare for that and declare peace again, after you killed their first wave of bodies. Maybe make the victory a global enchantments with high faith upkeep, that wins you the game after 20 turns with this enchantment active or something similar.
Some last things:
I like that conjure matter gets nerved. And the civ-specific victories definitely need a rebalance as mentioned above. I think they are a very cool feature.
sungchiahao
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2013
- Messages
- 48
Playing as Grigori, unit Luonnotar has both inquisition and enlighten city. They both seems to do the same thing: remove non-state religion. Are there any differences between the two abilities?
esvath
Apprentice of Erebus
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- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 1,403
It's a bug. She can adopt OO on the next version. Thanks for this!
Well, as CarnivalBizarre stated below, we need to rework on Epic Destiny Victory because some of them are not making any sense or too easy/difficult to achieve now. But first, we are aiming for releasing a more stable version. CarnivalBizarre is working hard for that!
After that, we can look at the existing mechanisms and rework them one by one
We'll see on that. I did not play the latest MoMana Beta version so if you have suggestions on what mechanism we should adopt to Xtended, go ahead. A new thread would be great to keep your suggestion visible to us all.
It is on turn 231 at normal game. But this will change in next version. We are making the holy city will be founded when a civ acquire 2nd Sacred Knowledge. The holy city will be founded in the city with greatest faith income. This will allow players to somewhat control the time and location of the holy city.
Yes. You can enable all or disable all, or you can pick which to enable/disable.
These options allow players to create a RP game as their heart's content
I'll take a look at that if you can post it in a new thread?
Btw, what do you think about the Calabim? Do their vampires come too late?
Thanks for reporting the Withering Hex! I've fixed this on the next version.
Aristarkh is blocked from adopting Healer's Circle (where the College Medicos agnostic wonder is) both by their evil alignment and by lore reason. I think it would be weird if the undead Aristarkh is having healers running everywhere.
I have no idea which code set the amount of food from killing animals. Maybe it is in the dll. If that is so, it's up to CarnivalBizarre to mod it.
Inquisition removes non-state religion religions, Enlighten City removes all religions. I have removed Inquisition from Luonnotar. Thanks for reporting the bug.
esvath
Apprentice of Erebus
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Apparently, the AI won't understand if we use total conversion mechanic (Temple converting all commerce into Faith). Sephi blocked AI civs from building Temple and Bard districts because of that.
See my proposal below, and please share your thought on that.
Improving and adding trade routes is possible, but the commerce income will be affected by your tax rate. Thus, it is possible to have a high commerce Merchant District city gives you high science income because you set your tax rate to produce 100% science, for example. That would defeat the purpose of both Merchant and Sage Districts.
Sage district:
The usefulness of sage district is related to the usefulness of science which is, as you mentioned, smaller in mom than in vanilla ffh2. In vanilla ffh2 science = progression, in mom science = a part of progression, because things from the science tree got migrated to guild, sacred knowledge, or spellresearch (dont get me wrong, i like this concept
Thanks for the idea! I adopted this for the next version. Sage District and Salon will give +20% GPP each.
Salon will also give +1 Bard slot, +1 Engineer slot, +1 Sage slot so you'll be able to control the Great Person production to some extent.
Nobles district:
I think this is the most powerful of the three basic districts. Culture is useful and the happines bonus can get very powerful, especially later in the game. You can easily get 4 extra happiness, which can lead to 4 extra population. And 4 people can do quite a lot for you. Compared to the sage district, the nobles district also unlocks significantly more buildings. I think you should reduce the culture income to 1 culture/population. And the extra trade route bonus should be moved to the money district (cant remember the name, sorry). Im really not sure though. Im just posting my thoughts
I remove culture income from the Noble District, but increase the number of resources that give happiness to Noble District (I add Ale, Fine Clothes, Salt and Ivory).
Again, unfortunately the AI does not understand total conversion. We have to think other ways of specialising districts. See my proposal at the bottom of this post.
Bards district:
Not really sure...
I think Bard District is alright and the problem is that there are too many buildings/trait that produce culture. Removing culture income from Noble District should make the Bard District more interesting to build.
Atm, I don't have any idea on how to make the Cultural Victory is more interesting, so I am open to suggestions!
I will increase the cost of Sacred Knowledges a little bit in the next version.
I agree that holding the ultimate miracle for 20 turns with no diplomacy against civ with different religion, but that will require DLL work.
This is my plan for Districts:
- Noble District no longer gives +culture income. It gives only happiness from resources, including Ale, Ivory, Fine Clothes and Salt.
- Bard District gives +1 culture/pop.
- Temple District gives +2 faith/pop, -20% production and commerce.
- Merchant District gives +1 gold/pop. It no longer doubles resources in city's BFC.
- Foreign Trade District is renamed to Trading District. It gives +2 gold/pop.
- Warehouse District gives +100% for all yield types in BFC.
- Luxury District gives one random luxury resource and doubles resources in BFC.
- Sage District gives +1 science/pop and +20% GPP.
- Salon gives +2 science/pop, +20% GPP and open slots for one Bard, Engineer and Sage.
- Schola Arcana gives +2 spell research and +1 spell research/mana resources.
- Elder Council gives +2 research and no longer requires Sage District. Early civs can use it to boost research. It requires 200 lumber, though.
- Library and Observatory requires Sage District.
- Public School, Archives and University require Salon. Leaders with Scientific trait get +2 happiness from each.
Note: Clan of Embers and Doviello can not build Sage District, Salon and Schola Arcana. They can not build any buildings requiring those Districts. They can build Elder Council and Mage Guild.
Im playing as the Aristrakh and getting a CTD at turn 306. Reloading doesnt fix it. Im playing with the latest version of Extended and Kuriotates are part of the game. They caused problems in the older version but i dont know whether they are the cause of the problem with the newest version here aswell. At least i couldnt find someone mentioning a problem with them in the latest version. I attached a savegame just before the crash.
Could add needing to have 25% Bard Districts in your cities for Cultural Victory, and owning Syliven's Perfect Lyre?
Which would mean maybe needing to go to war to get it.
Oh, and 3 cities, as in base game, at Legendary Culture for Cultural Victory sounds good to me, after all if going for it it is not just District and Wonders one uses but also Cultural Slider.
Which would mean maybe needing to go to war to get it.
Oh, and 3 cities, as in base game, at Legendary Culture for Cultural Victory sounds good to me, after all if going for it it is not just District and Wonders one uses but also Cultural Slider.
CarnivalBizarre
Warlord
There has been several exceptions fixed in the next version, I probably cannot load your game to check if it passes now due to all the changes made, but in the last version tested, to be release really soon, I have not encountered any exception, but there might still be rare ones left, hopefully not.
GenEngineer
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2014
- Messages
- 456
The thing with requiring 25% bard districts is that it implies you weren't going to do that anyway
Edit* Just realized that I mixed up bard districts with noble districts. That's actually a really good way of nerfing the culture victory then.
I agree that upping the number of cities makes a lot of sense, keeping you from just stacking multipliers together. I also wonder if one of the requirements could be having a certain amount of culture banked up? Adds an interesting tension of 'Do I store culture to get me closer to my victory?" or "Do I spend culture to keep my enemies from overwhelming me?"
Another thing I'd like to see is some way to guarantee that a map starts with a resource. For example, I've played some games where despite going heavy into a religion, I never get to build any high priests, because the map I was on never spawned any incense. While I really like the idea of tying the high priests to something besides just a tech, sometimes you just can't get a resource in a game. Maybe tie it into a district? If temple district is already getting nerfed, maybe change it to you can only build high priests in a temple district city?
here is mine:
- Gold: at the proper level of utility due to Foreign Trade District… however FTD is needed. It is the district that I build the most. I HAVE to take the commerce guild only to get FTD. Otherwise big empire (>10cities) don't work. I often build 3-4 noble cities : 1 bard / 2-3 warrior / 0-1 temple / 2-4 sage cities: 1-2 science / 2-3 arcana / and 3-6+ commerce : most are FTD.
Maybe the fact that gold/mithril/gems are hidden before mining guild is a reason for that because playing Luirchip I had to go mining guild… and found those... and gold is easier even with fewer FTD. But I often won't go mining guild if I don't need it: gold/mithril/silver/gems are too rare. - Science: yes.
There are more features in guilds than in science !
Military and arcane techs are much more expensive than civilian techs. On top of that, often, military techs don't bring you anything (due to the rooster : no mounted units in the mounted line tech… however you can get +2str on 2 late techs : 4 expensive techs for only 2 (+2str) - Culture: a bit too easy: guild techs are too cheap… but guilds themselves are too mandatory…
the only one balanced is Arcane guild: you can study magic even without the guild but the guild brings much advantages.
However : you can't capture animals without hunting guild
You can't even see metals without mining guild. I'd rather be able to see them beforehand, in the same way that you can see fishs and hunter-animals. But otherwise I don’t really like the mining guild: gear are not really much more powerful than other ones / you get the health penalty.
You can't get any merchant district without the commerce guild.
You can't get any religion without priest guild… (I would rather have religion being researchable in another way… and priest guild enabling a shortcut …. Because you used a guild)
I don't use Esus / healer / Slavery due to the predominance of the other guilds :
hunter for the cages : happy + culture + food/gold/production (elephant/deer/spider) and commerce for FTD and other commerce/gold related buildings (I always need gold)
and third guild is often one of : magic-guild to get more spellresearch or mining for finding if I got ores or priest guild for opening a whole new commerce type : religion - Espionage (not being used)
- Faith: not too easy to get, even when you focus deep into the priest guild and get a Temple city. As it is used both for techs and for very expensive spells, I don't feel this to come too easily.
- Spell research: perfect. Late game techs are still expensive even with a few arcane districts…. But as there are 6 (or 7?) mana lines, you are never able to research all the trees. I never had the means or the need to research a spell-tree up to the last spell techs.
- Mana: I don't know. Not too easy to get if you have a civ that is mana hungry : Luirchip "repair" costs a lot. / there are not many ways to get much +mana… most of them are limited to gathering new nodes or to get mage guilds. The other one are expensive buildings that give only a few +mana income
last I would like a way to change a district aim : if you don't need culture anymore, your bard district becomes un-interesting.
If you reached mosts techs, your sage/science district becomes a waste....
Could there be a way to "sack" a district ? (lose all district-related buildings: to be able to start afresh...)
esvath
Apprentice of Erebus
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- Mar 27, 2008
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- 1,403
Military techs: there are 12 techs that give +2 str for most of your units. This alone is worthy of researching the techs, imho. The strength bonus you get from these techs could make those early units have chance against other, stronger units.
Civilian techs: are the civilian techs too cheap? Or the military/magic techs are too expensive?
Civilian techs: are the civilian techs too cheap? Or the military/magic techs are too expensive?
Civilian too cheap I would say but the Military also do not offer that much even though the +2 str ones are nice enough.
Could it be possible to increase the specialization of units via the Military Tree,
like horseback riding techs giving mounted units extra attack strength, extra withdrawal, and extra movement on the last three Mounted techs,
like giving Archery units extra support strength, extra first strikes, double fortification bonus on the last three Archery techs,
and similar stuff for Melee and Ranger type units too?
Could it be possible to increase the specialization of units via the Military Tree,
like horseback riding techs giving mounted units extra attack strength, extra withdrawal, and extra movement on the last three Mounted techs,
like giving Archery units extra support strength, extra first strikes, double fortification bonus on the last three Archery techs,
and similar stuff for Melee and Ranger type units too?
I meant: depending on the civilizations,
military tech can give you : nothing / +2str / a unit / a building (often useless) / an equipement.
as most civilization do not have 4 units on the military tech tree, at least 1-2 lines will have NO units … and in each line, at most 1 tech out of 4 has a unit.
I usually find that only the military strategy line is useful : buildings are useful / you get the +2 str / you get warrior district and wonders.
then, for the others, unless you have a unit on the line, they are often not so useful, tier 2 tech (archery / bronze...) give nothing to you: it is a "lost tech": roughly it works only as an entry-price before being able to research tier 3 tech which sometimes give you +2, but if you don't have any recon unit, nothing on the recon line is useful : so 4 techs for getting only 2 (+2). if I have tier 2, I'll research tier 3 and the +2str makes it worth it (save for luirchips). otherwise, having to get a tier 2 and a tier 3 only for the +2 is not useful
tier 4 gives +2 so if you researched tier 3, often you take it even if you get nothing else.
tier 5 can give +2 or powerful units or nothing... but if you have the powerful unit there.. it is often the only unit of that line : you have to research a whole expensive tree for the last, very expensive tech.
equipement in military tech is often useless as you get more interesting equiment in other ways: vampiric sword, or dragon leather armor which are found in guilds...Etc
equipements are not differentiated enough IMO. Main effect are often too close (save for vampiric sword), while diffenciating effect is to small:
comparatively, the arcane tech line is more interesting: you get a unit on any odd tech : 1 out of 2, you get useful buildings every techs, you get useful equipements every techs.
In fact: magi guild added to the arcane line and (almost) did not take anything from it.
In comparison, hunter guild / mining guild / esus guild took things from the military techs.
that said, I think some civilian techs are not expensive enough.
but at the same time, as you need guilds... making them too expensive might be bothersome.
Here comes some auto-brainstorming:
Re-training buildings:
They seem limited: +15% up to 15 xp… or +20% up to 10.. then: so I have +35% until 10 xp, and +15% from 10 to 15 ??? not so useful: remember that 10 xp is level 2, and 15 xp is half of level 3.. ;and that until level 4 … I canno't chose a promotion
Accordingly I never use them, save for the free "cash xp" : +3 to archery units …
I think it would be better to have them at : +25% up to 15 more xp, every building adding to each other. So training ground + bowyer + archery tower + war academy + barracks could for example bring any archery line units to 10+15+15+15 = 55 xp… and then it becomes useful: it is level 5 or 6 depending on traits (+maybe have the initial training level be higher?).
Maybe, if you change only that on training building you could make do without most of the rambling ideas I mentioned above.
military tech can give you : nothing / +2str / a unit / a building (often useless) / an equipement.
as most civilization do not have 4 units on the military tech tree, at least 1-2 lines will have NO units … and in each line, at most 1 tech out of 4 has a unit.
I usually find that only the military strategy line is useful : buildings are useful / you get the +2 str / you get warrior district and wonders.
then, for the others, unless you have a unit on the line, they are often not so useful, tier 2 tech (archery / bronze...) give nothing to you: it is a "lost tech": roughly it works only as an entry-price before being able to research tier 3 tech which sometimes give you +2, but if you don't have any recon unit, nothing on the recon line is useful : so 4 techs for getting only 2 (+2). if I have tier 2, I'll research tier 3 and the +2str makes it worth it (save for luirchips). otherwise, having to get a tier 2 and a tier 3 only for the +2 is not useful
tier 4 gives +2 so if you researched tier 3, often you take it even if you get nothing else.
tier 5 can give +2 or powerful units or nothing... but if you have the powerful unit there.. it is often the only unit of that line : you have to research a whole expensive tree for the last, very expensive tech.
equipement in military tech is often useless as you get more interesting equiment in other ways: vampiric sword, or dragon leather armor which are found in guilds...Etc
equipements are not differentiated enough IMO. Main effect are often too close (save for vampiric sword), while diffenciating effect is to small:
Spoiler :
comparatively, the arcane tech line is more interesting: you get a unit on any odd tech : 1 out of 2, you get useful buildings every techs, you get useful equipements every techs.
In fact: magi guild added to the arcane line and (almost) did not take anything from it.
In comparison, hunter guild / mining guild / esus guild took things from the military techs.
that said, I think some civilian techs are not expensive enough.
but at the same time, as you need guilds... making them too expensive might be bothersome.
Here comes some auto-brainstorming:
Spoiler :
Re-training buildings:
They seem limited: +15% up to 15 xp… or +20% up to 10.. then: so I have +35% until 10 xp, and +15% from 10 to 15 ??? not so useful: remember that 10 xp is level 2, and 15 xp is half of level 3.. ;and that until level 4 … I canno't chose a promotion
Accordingly I never use them, save for the free "cash xp" : +3 to archery units …
I think it would be better to have them at : +25% up to 15 more xp, every building adding to each other. So training ground + bowyer + archery tower + war academy + barracks could for example bring any archery line units to 10+15+15+15 = 55 xp… and then it becomes useful: it is level 5 or 6 depending on traits (+maybe have the initial training level be higher?).
Maybe, if you change only that on training building you could make do without most of the rambling ideas I mentioned above.
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