Master of Mana Xtended

[Sheila2]

Thank you for updating this nice game.

I started en new game and my neighbours are Kuriotes. Is the bug with them already solved or is it better to start a new game ?

 

[esvath]

I have several games up to turn 300 with Kuriotates AI, so I assume that the bug is avoidable (not truly solved yet). I still get CTDs and MAFs once in a while though, but reload saves from two or three rounds prior the crash will correct the game.

 

[Calavente]

@esvath : thanks for all your work.
I'm still playing with last version:
comments:
-I found the real difference between rogue and tracker :
Rogue have 5+2poison / enter civ borders
Tracker have :7 +50%vs animal:
I missed that the rogue doesn't have the vs animal.

further:
currently I'm playing with windswords.. it took me some time (when I killed an elephant and I captured it) to notice that those were RECON ... so nice... a recon with no city penalty.

however they can't capture city... I don't know why, maybe it's linked to them being able to become hidden ? However when they attack they are not hidden anymore .... but they were at the time they initiated the attack..

I'll check, before I'm not sure their air affinity works..[Edit: affinity works... they are at 26 (12+10+4) while base warriors are at 19 : 9+10]

Last point.
Life and fire mana have a huge advantage due to the +xp spell (altar of battle for life?), as the xp given to the units on creation is not dependant on fire/life node numbers.. but on number of cities... which can become huge... and is doubled if you have both the fire and life spells.
(playing illians, and capturing a fire palace ruins: I could get up to have +80xp at birth not counting unit_type special : 10 from titan, 10 from warrior-district, and 60+ from altar and the fire equivalent).

other magic pools don't have such huge advantages.

 

[Hellraizer]

Hi

After playing one hotseat match for 60 turns we found out some issues with the latest version:

Is it intended or not:
-Scion civilization doesn't receive the unit from the Local legend-project, but is able to complete it. We also tested that Amurites -civilization did get the local legend, so it seems that the issue with the local legend is (probably) only concerning the Scions...

Event issue:
What happens or should happen from the event described in the picture below

Nothing ever seems to happen

Thanks for the great work, the game seemed to be actually (otherwise) working now.

Over and out - for now. Cheers.

 

[esvath]

...however they can't capture city... I don't know why, maybe it's linked to them being able to become hidden ? However when they attack they are not hidden anymore .... but they were at the time they initiated the attack..

The Windswords can not capture the city when they are hidden at the time of making the attack. Any units with Hidden can not capture city or capture any other units.

Last point.
Life and fire mana have a huge advantage due to the +xp spell (altar of battle for life?), as the xp given to the units on creation is not dependant on fire/life node numbers.. but on number of cities... which can become huge... and is doubled if you have both the fire and life spells.
(playing illians, and capturing a fire palace ruins: I could get up to have +80xp at birth not counting unit_type special : 10 from titan, 10 from warrior-district, and 60+ from altar and the fire equivalent).
other magic pools don't have such huge advantages.

Hm, those xp granting buildings should only give the xp to the city where it is build, not giving global xp. I'll check this.

Hi

After playing one hotseat match for 60 turns we found out some issues with the latest version:

Is it intended or not:
-Scion civilization doesn't receive the unit from the Local legend-project, but is able to complete it. We also tested that Amurites -civilization did get the local legend, so it seems that the issue with the local legend is (probably) only concerning the Scions...

I am glad that you like it! Don't forget to vote for your fav civ and tell me why at the other thread

Scion not getting Local Legend is actually a bug. Thanks for catching this.

 

[lfgr]

Nothing ever seems to happen

It reveals certain Unique improvements, but doesn't catch whether you already found them or they are even on the map. So there is a chance that indeed nothing happens.

 

[Calavente]

re-windswords :
please note that windsword still capture animals and sometimes units (with the class that has "20% chance to convert")
I didn't test to capture a city with a windsword with blitz (so can attack multiple time) after it attacked once ... to lose the hidden promotion.
also note that I fought a lot with them, but they were never attacked once.. it seems like hidden is 100% reapplied after your own turn, before AI turns.

 

[Sheila2]

I am now playing the Ljosafar.
My religious influence with the FOTL is 71% (also built the religious wonder)
I thought a religious victory, but nothing happened.
Is this a bug ?

 

[sungchiahao]

I believe religious victory is now based on faith accumulation. First to research the final "religion tech" wins.

 

[LonelyLurker]

You don't have to do clean install. Just copy-and-replace the Assets folder to your MoM's Assets folder and you'll be fine.

I just did this and now it crashes whenever I try to load the Mod.

 

[esvath]

I am now playing the Ljosafar.
My religious influence with the FOTL is 71% (also built the religious wonder)
I thought a religious victory, but nothing happened.
Is this a bug ?

I believe religious victory is now based on faith accumulation. First to research the final "religion tech" wins.

Religious Victory is bugged atm, it did not trigger even though you control the Holy City.

Meanwhile, try the new "miracle" victory that sungchiahao mentioned. You need to get the last Sacred Knowledge and cast the ultimate miracle to win the game.

I might disable the religious victory and make the miracle victory as the "new" religious victory, though.

I just did this and now it crashes whenever I try to load the Mod.

That is strange. Anyone else got error after installing the new patch?

 

[LonelyLurker]

I finally got it to work. I had to reinstall Xtended and then un-rar the 2.0 'assets' directly into the existing 'assets', instead of unpacking and then moving.

 

[esvath]

I finally got it to work. I had to reinstall Xtended and then un-rar the 2.0 'assets' directly into the existing 'assets', instead of unpacking and then moving.

I don't know what caused the errors but I am glad that you can play the game now. Have fun and tell us about your favourite civ and balance at the other thread

 

[Sheila2]

After about 400 turns i got the new miracle victory for the FOTL.
Any news about the prestige victory ?

 

[User0918]

Meanwhile, try the new "miracle" victory that sungchiahao mentioned. You need to get the last Sacred Knowledge and cast the ultimate miracle to win the game.

I got one issue with the miracle victory. Contrary to most other victory conditions like conquer/eliminate/religion/etc. it gets progressively easier the larger the map size is. 10000 faith might sound like a lot, but with the "Religion" civic (for me hands-down the best Virtues civic) and about 20-30 cities with most of them focusing on faith "production" (Nobles District>Temple District>Oracle) you'll hit that number in no time. And it's not even crippling your civ, because you get culture/food/happiness/production, so basically no drawbacks.

Nobles District seems a bit too powerful in general, especially when compared to the Sages District (which I rarely ever build). Most of the time I'm just mixing in the odd Merchants District and build exclusively ND otherwise. On large maps mana nodes are abundant so the towers that require the Sages District can be ignored and spell research isn't that important either. A mid-tier spell like chain explosion will carry you all the way, no need for any high-tier summons.

So in short: Faith victory too easy to achieve on large maps / Nobles District gives too many bonuses compared to the other two (the happiness one especially is a huge advantage).

 

[esvath]

I got one issue with the miracle victory. Contrary to most other victory conditions like conquer/eliminate/religion/etc. it gets progressively easier the larger the map size is. 10000 faith might sound like a lot, but with the "Religion" civic (for me hands-down the best Virtues civic) and about 20-30 cities with most of them focusing on faith "production" (Nobles District>Temple District>Oracle) you'll hit that number in no time. And it's not even crippling your civ, because you get culture/food/happiness/production, so basically no drawbacks.

Nobles District seems a bit too powerful in general, especially when compared to the Sages District (which I rarely ever build). Most of the time I'm just mixing in the odd Merchants District and build exclusively ND otherwise. On large maps mana nodes are abundant so the towers that require the Sages District can be ignored and spell research isn't that important either. A mid-tier spell like chain explosion will carry you all the way, no need for any high-tier summons.

So in short: Faith victory too easy to achieve on large maps / Nobles District gives too many bonuses compared to the other two (the happiness one especially is a huge advantage).

Interesting observation.

One thing that you have not included in your observation above: that getting the penultimate Sacred Knowledge will have 50% chance of civs with other religion to declare war to you, and getting the ultimate Sacred Knowledge will make all civs with other religion to declare war. But I guess, Conquest and Military victories also require you to be in war(s) with other civs.

How about making the Temple District to convert all commerce into Faith (like old version of MoMana), thus players have to choose between getting lots of Faith and general welfare?

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

Interesting observation.

One thing that you have not included in your observation above: that getting the penultimate Sacred Knowledge will have 50% chance of civs with other religion to declare war to you, and getting the ultimate Sacred Knowledge will make all civs with other religion to declare war. But I guess, Conquest and Military victories also require you to be in war(s) with other civs.

How about making the Temple District to convert all commerce into Faith (like old version of MoMana), thus players have to choose between getting lots of Faith and general welfare?

I am in general all for making hard choices, but also like playing one city challange games, which the specialization will make pretty much impossible.

But right now, Noble district is way way to good, because culture is so important, and size of city as well. There is few reasons to go in other directions unless playing a very specialized civ.

What should be the drawback of noble district, and how could the other districs work in a one city challange game?

 

[Calavente]

for one city challenge : aren't you able to get all the districts ?

otherwise, the issue with sage city is that its effect are not proportional with the research cost.
at the beginning there are some effects, but all techs are still very far away (especially in military tree)... so you build 2-3 sage cities.. and 1 specialised in science... and you raise them. but by the time you get an academy in 1 city... all the techs are only a matter of 1-10 turns... so you arrive too quickly to the end of tech tree and all the nice units.

in old FFH, the tech cost vs research production was more balanced: (save the very early techs) if you invested in science, your empire growth and science buildings/specialists enabled to maintain a constant research rate : 1 every 10-20 turns.. unless you went back to lower tier tech or tried for higher tier techs.
Now it is the reverse: if you invest in tech, the starts stays slow... then you reach a good rate, then you overcome it and all is easy... and then there are no more techs... and your science cities become bothersome.

In fact the harder tech tree to get is the spell tech tree.. you need a real lot of arcane district cities if you want to be proefficient in multiple mana school.
science only needs one huge science city...
and guilds needs only 1 huge bard disctrict.. and the other cities supplemented the rest easily.
I easily had 1500 culture/turn, not counting the units with bard-discipline.

2issues:
-I couldn't find how to assigne commerce to spellresearch.
-barb fort never fill back... that is a bit disappointing.

 

[esvath]

There are several category of commerce, which can be gained through buildings or setting the tax sliders:

• Gold: for building improvements, paying city maintenance, rushing units
• Science: for researching knowledge
• Culture: for gaining territory, advancing guild, gaining traits, culture victory
• Espionage (not being used)
• Faith: for advancing Sacred Knowledge, casting Miracles, Ultimate miracle victory
• Spell research: for researching spells
• Mana: for casting spells, summonings, global enchantments

At this moment, my personal opinion is:

• Gold: at the proper level of utility, too easy to get if I build Foreign Trade District. Solution: nerf gold income from FTD?
• Science:
  • Does the presence of "alternative techs" such as Guilds, Sacred Knowledge and Spell research reduce the importance of science?
  • Do we need to rebalance the tech costs? If yes, how? Which techs should be researchable at which turn?
• Culture: too important and too easy to get! Creative trait is powerful atm, so does Bard District. Solution:
  • Decrease culture gained from Creative trait and Bard District (and maybe other culture-related buildings?).
  • Increase the costs for Guilds (maybe +100 for level 2, +250 for level 3, etc?)
• Espionage (not being used)
• Faith: maybe too easy to get? Solution: Increase faith cost for Sacred Knowledges (since there are not too many buildings with faith income, and reducing the amount of faith generated by a building might be impossible since the amount is already 1/city level or 1/population).
• Spell research: at the proper place, but maybe too easy to get with Magi Circle.
• Mana: maybe too easy to get and too powerful? Nerfing Conjure Matter is a must for the next version.

What do you think?

 

[Eleven Mars]

Seem to be having a little trouble.

How can I tell if Xtended is correctly installed and working when I fire up MoM?