Masters of the Seas

[Incan Emperor]

Think Ill go with Writing for the libraries.

 

[Incan Emperor]

OK we have finally met and we have +1 for peace and -3 for different religion, I have to up my power graph ASAP or otherwise she wont hesitate on wiping me out/make stupid demands.

 

[Incan Emperor]

Writing completed, Im torn between Alphabet/Math/Monarchy/Machinery/Compass, whew, quite a difficult choice huh?

OK Math it is.

Forge completed in Amsterdam, granary next to help cope with the unhealthiness.

Granary completed in Amsterdam, work starts on ToA.

 

[Incan Emperor]

OK we have completed The Great Lighthouse.

I also dropped research a little bit in order to upgrade my warriors on to axemen and then produce a few more, to up my power graph, I know Im going on a building frenzie but I swear its just a few wonders early that I find make a big difference and are worth building.

 

[Incan Emperor]

Both Utrecht and the Hague are working on forges.

 

[Incan Emperor]

I have already upgraded all three of my warriors to axemen and I have accumulated enough EPs on Isabella to see the power graph now. It looks like I really have to keep building troops.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Drop your state religion, open borders with her, accept her state religion, and you can keep 1 warrior per city and she won't attack you.

 

[Incan Emperor]

Drop your state religion, open borders with her, accept her state religion, and you can keep 1 warrior per city and she won't attack you.

As much as I wish I could do this I still have to wait until it spreads to my lands with no open borders, to which she will not agree plus of course that negates trade routes with her cities making it even less likely it will happen before Judaism spreads to such cities, which once it happens makes the spread of buddhism even more remotely possible.

To sum it all up Im in a position where I cant open borders with her since I have a different religion, I cant share her religion since I have no open boarders.

I have to wait until she makes a stupid demand to try and improve our relationships, and still since neither of us has Alphabet her stupid demand is more likely to turn out to be a resource, other than seafood the only resources I have duplicates for are strategic ones, and if she demands either horses or iron, Im better off killing her.

 

[Incan Emperor]

See?

So until this changes I need to raise my power graph right?

 

[Incan Emperor]

I love the synergy between CS/HR/Slavery, you whip military like crazy in all cities without any fear since the wont hit you, leave them stationed until the are gone, move them to the Capital, grow the capital like crazy until the allows you to without worrying about .

That will raise my power graph too and if my power graph gets high enough to not fear an attack, that means its time to attack myself isnt it?

 

[Incan Emperor]

I have completed Math now, usually my way into CS would only require Code of Laws, but since in this partiular scenario, I have a holy city Im in no great need for courthouses, plus Im very interested in Monarchy and Feudalism for my warlike intents, so Im taking that path into CS, once I get there Izzy is dead meat.

Remember every game is different and only because you managed to become good friends with Izzy in your game it doesnt mean I even can, let alone want to do the same.

 

[Incan Emperor]

OK hold on its a shitload of turns to get Vassalge, let me think about it a bit longer.

Enough! damn it I can pull it off with just axes, swords and a few chariots/spears depending on which resources she has I just need siege and Presto!, with her out I wont have any competition to the galley reachable islands so I can delay that too.

Researching construction and settling Moai city are my priotities now, not because of Moai themselves but in order to get the horse hooked up ASAP.

 

[Incan Emperor]

Got a GP and shrined Amsterdam.

Im running at 80% science and making 7gpt not all that bad.

Hooked a rice resource and whipped a sword in Amsterdam after building a library and a barracks the old way, the sword had 1 turn left already when I whipped, because of the overflow from the previous build, qued another sword, which will complete in 1 or so turns too, building a library in The Hague and The Colossus in Utrecht, now that I have Math Ill start chopping for it.

 

[Incan Emperor]

With both swords completed Im starting a new axe to escort a settler, who will settle in top of the horses in the west peninsula.

With a library completed in The Hague building a Temple 1 turn from growth, whip used to complete it.

Completed Construction, going for Hunting/Archery for city garrisons/stack defense.

Temple completed in The Hague, building a barracks

Updated power graph:

Quite a spur huh? For some reason she simply hasnt built up any military but I see her borders west now too so I guess she is settling those islands for me.

Sorry that was the score graph, DAMN! this is the power graph, its still tighter than before though.

Gotta keep beefing my army.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

You know it's possible to switch back to no state religion, right? That's what you need to do, and then she'll open borders with you. The -3 from different religions will immediately disappear, she'll go back to cautious, and she'll open borders with you. Within a few turns her religion will spread to you.

When you play Civ, you need to be pragmatic. You may despise isabella, but being her best friend is what's best for you. Get good relations with her, trade techs with her, get trade routes with her. Then when you meet the rest of the civs you'll be in a much stronger position. You will be much more advanced than you would be if you continued with a self imposed isolated start, which is what you have if she stays annoyed. Not having trade route and tech trading partners is horrible. Have you ever played a completely isolated start? By the time you meet the other civs you will almost always be way behind everyone else, who were busy trading with each other while you struggled, and whose trade routes were giving them +5 instead of your internal +1 trade routes.

Post astronomy if you want to backstab her, that's fine, you can trade with other people. but unless you find another civ you can reach pre astronomy, she's your best hope for a successful game.

 

[Incan Emperor]

You know it's possible to switch back to no state religion, right?

Well that means the following, 1 turn of anarchy to switch from Judaism to No State Religion, wasting god knows how many turns of Organized Religion which let me remind you is high upkeep or the alternative 2 turns of anarchy to switch to Paganism and back to Organized religion once Buddhism has spread plus obviously the next ensuing turn of anarchy to switch to Buddhism.

4 or so turns of anarchy in the early-mid game is A LOT, you really think it is worth it? I mean I could justify it if I was playing a Spiritual leader but not in this situation.

When you play Civ, you need to be pragmatic.

Its much more important to be objective though and I dont think that what was discussed above is.

being her best friend is what's best for you.

Personally I think you underestimate the value of having all the land for me on an Archipielago map where land is scarce, a Holy city and in the sweet spot AI capitals usually are plus whatever wonders she has if any.

By the time you meet the other civs you will almost always be way behind everyone else, who were busy trading with each other while you struggled, and whose trade routes were giving them +5 instead of your internal +1 trade routes.

Again that would be true if this wherent an Archipielago map, some civs DO start isolated, and most have 1 or 2 neighbors at most, its not like all 5 other civs where having a tech and route trade orgy.

But keep it coming please you points of view are really useful and really help me weigh decisions even if its only to end up firing me up towards the opposite direction.

You know in analysing my position I become much more aware of the multiple benefits attacking her would provide me with and how little drawbacks would be implied.

 

[Incan Emperor]

This the map now, she is REXing HARD, If I remain peaceful I can say good bye to all the good land.

 

[Incan Emperor]

OK the city west from Utrecht is ready, I have decided Im also building IW there instead of HE, since it also has a fish resource and will therefor be able to feed the Engineers.

One other thing happened and Im not sure how to handle this now.

Spoiler :

OMG this really changes things, in one hand he only has -1 because of different religion and I know he is a trade route whore and WILL open borders with me making much more feasible to have Buddhism spread to me and give a peaceful resolution to this.

On the other hand since he WILL open borders with me I can always flood him with missionaries and bribe him into adopting Judaism.

Also this makes expansion all that more difficult since he has those bloody carracks of his and will claim a lot of land leaving me with nothing but the strip of land I started on and probably even settle a city or two on the tundra backyard.

OMG this has just gotten so much more complicated, it adds a lot of variables. OK I dont even know what to do now, I think Ill stop playing until tomorrow and think about it overnight and at work.

Ill drop by the forums then, I mean at work and if anyone has any tips Ill try and put all this bullcrap together.

 

[Incan Emperor]

OK I also found this out:

I think thats Hannibal

Damn its like all seven civs where spawned nearby, I still have to learn what religion he is running though if he is also Buddhist no doubt Ill have to convert.

I usualy dont start exploring until Im ready to settle overseas, since I guess there arent many civs to meet but this time it came back to bite me in the ass.

If Hannibal is also Buddhist its game over and Ill have to do anything to convert myself, at all costs.

I think this was white all along too, enough Ill stop building ground units now and Ill build a few Triremes and Galleys, now both to do scouting and settling the islands east, those dont look so crowded.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Hannibal is orange colour territory, unless they changed it in BtS from warlords. Looks like Liz to me.