Math in high school

[pboily]

So those that have that before high school sit on their hands and waste some very important years? Are we training a work force that will actually be competitive this way? The smart people in other countries would already be ahead by 4 years. Reducing the entire populace down to a mediocre education won't do anyone any good.

The smart people move ahead and are not restrained by "bureaucracy". Those who get bogged (and bugged) down by slow moving high school are not actually smart.

 

[warpus]

Quadriatic equations, radicals, and triangle similiarty theorems are some examples of what i consider "advanced" math. i don't see myself using any of those things when i'm older.

That's really basic stuff man. Trust me, you're not learning anything too advanced in high-school, in any discipline.

You'll be free to choose your field of study when you're in University - but high school is meant to be all inclusive - it's meant to teach you little bits from almost every discipline.

If we let kids decide what they want to learn in highschool we'd end up with a bunch of idiots and nobody would ever learn anything.

 

[newfangle]

Math is important in high school, because at some point you will need to take math in university when you are obtaining a completely non-mathematical degree.

 

[El_Machinae]

To the OP - the maths that you're complaining about are not advanced. By the time you're done high school, they should be intuitively obvious. As well, we want each generation to have a better education than the one before. Why should my retiring lawyer be smarter than my new one?

Nobody has ever lifted weights because they think they would ever need to do 20 bench press reps (200 lbs) under 1 minute.

My 20 rep maximum was 185lbs. Grr, did I hit a wall on that one ...

 

[woody60707]

I learnt how to read an write well before High School age. Isn't this what Elementary school is for?

I'm not that hot on my knowledge of the US school system so excuse me if I'm being a muppet.

*TGA checks spelling so nobody can come up with a smart comeback about me not being able to write*

I guess there is no easy answer, it would be nice if every kid in the US did learn basic reading and writing by elementary school. But in many schools, (mostly inner city) this isn't the case. So when I am looking at this, I have to choose what the bigger problem is. Is it the really smart kid who isn't learning and being everything he could be in high school, or the not so smart kid who needs a lot of help just to learn to read and write.

Also the other side of this is what is basic math, and what should AP math be. And i know i am not the best person to say what basic math should be. I was in the marines for 5 years, got injured, and going to college with no clue what i want to do. But I do know I have to take a 055 math class, and 085 math before i can even take a 100 level math class.

Now outside of the class room, I never felt that I needed more math. I know someone could make a case where due to my limited knowledge on math, I can't see what i am really missing if I knew math batter. But for someone to make that case, I need to know what am I missing?

 

[El_Machinae]

Another thing. To get a university physics degree pretty well requires that you know high-school math when you start.

IF, when you're 18, you decide to do physics - you'll have the tools you need to enter any undergrad that you want. Instead of being dead-ended before you even get there.

I mean, when I started, I really (really) wanted to do genetics. It wasn't until I was through my second year that I learned genetics wasn't my thing.

 

[pboily]

My 20 rep maximum was 185lbs. Grr, did I hit a wall on that one ...

wimp...........

 

[El_Machinae]

It really did seem to be a natural barrier for me. Then I had to struggle with the 'roids temptation.

 

[Perfection]

I think that’s where my and yours views don't jive. I see the goal of high school to teach as many kids as possible the basic skills needed in life, such as reading, writing, basic math, and ect.

A high school can still accomplish that and accomplish so much more. I mean my high school provided me the tools I needed in college. With just a basic high school experience I wouldn't be doing nearly as good as I'm dong now.

 

[Perfection]

The smart people move ahead and are not restrained by "bureaucracy". Those who get bogged (and bugged) down by slow moving high school are not actually smart.

I disagree. I've known some very smart people who just don't realize what they can do. Smart kids are still kids, and therefore they are still stupid.

 

[pboily]

I would think that they are very capable kids, but I tend to reserve the term "smart" for those who find a way.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being average.

Of course, here, it's just a matter of definitions (semantics).

 

[Black_Hole]

How will learning ancient world history benefit civil engineers? How would fluid dynamics help english teachers?
If you want to just learn the basics that are need for all jobs, all you need is elementary school and maybe middle school. High school teaches advanced topics as an introduction to the many different fields there are.

Also the math you are talking about has many practical purposes and isn't very advanced, I learned about those topics in 7th and 8th grade

 

[mdwh]

this is an issue that's been bothering me the past 2 years, so i think i'll share it with you guys. i've become convinced that advanced math, such as (advanced) Algebra, Geometry, and Trig should not be required to graduate high school. basically, i think this because the majority of people who graduate high school won't need this info at any point in their lives.

To borrow from the other thread, isn't it that you need to study maths in order to stop being too nerdy..?

Seriously though - why do you pick on maths? You could say the same about any subject. Most people don't *need* to know much.

However, education is more than basic essentials. Even if you don't need it for your job, it's still a good thing to teach people a bit more. E.g., it's important in today's world for people to understand statistics.

 

[Cuivienen]

Algebra, Geometry and Trigonemtry at least are absolutely essential to become an effective worker after high school, even without college. Basic calculus is also far more useful than most people think and in many disciplines. Those who don't bother to learn it will, of course, never understand its usefulness, but that isn't so important. Calculus is important in seemingly-unrelated subjects like biology, linguistics and sociology for studies of trends.

I plan to be (probably) a historian or linguist of some sort, but I've taken some fairly advanced calculus classes in high school and find them very useful for understanding other subjects. Furthermore, it expands your ability to understand things; understanding calculus gives you new insight into many natural phenomena.

 

[eyrei]

Mathematics is an excellent exercise for the mind. Besides that, I use geometry and algebra all the time for various things.

 

[El_Machinae]

Those who don't bother to learn it will, of course, never understand its usefulness,

You know, I can't think of any chimps or monkeys that can understand Calculus's usefulness.

So - if you can't see the usefulness in calculus, chance are you have more in common with a monkey than you do with the adult CFC crowd ...

 

[shortguy]

I doubt I'll ever use a whole lot of the math I learned--nor even remember it much, for that matter--but I don't consider it a waste of time. Geometry and trig were boring but marginally useful, and calculus was pretty interesting.

 

[History_Buff]

It's the same with math (or biology, or business, or whatever). I defy anybody to show me an instance where something they've learned in school (and couldn't have learned otherwise) was needed at any point in their lives.

I have a really annoying friend who often asks me rhetorically, to "prove it". And, I've taken proofs, so I can do it. I can start from 1+1=2, and assemble a logic proof thereby. I also enjoy having a job that pays well. As such, knowing the math and science that people like you thought was stupid in High School promises the big bucks

How will learning ancient world history benefit civil engineers?

Roman's built REALLY good buildings. Notice how a number of them are still standing

but there must be other ways to teach thinking methods then teaching stuff that most people don't really need. for example, how will i use factoring when i'm older. i learned it in Algebra I, i'm using it somewhat in Geo/Trig, and i've been told my teacher this year that Algebra II is loaded with factoring, which i'm taking next year. so, when will i use this after i finish my education?

Becuase Math is the easiest way to do it. You can learn the same methods in a number of philosophy classes, but that has even less practicality.

And just what will you being using for your job? Yeah, I've done a lot of calculus, and my employer will never run up to me and say "Solve this differential equation, pronto!", but I'm still glad I could, even just for bragging rights. Plus, it reinforces your basic (4 operators) math skills once you get away from those god awful brain ruiners we call calcuators.

By your logic, we can safely eliminate Science, Social, Art, Drama, Gym, Foreign Languages, Math, Religion (if you attended Catholic - or some other religious - school like I did), and a good portion of English. Which is pretty much all of highschool. If you only want to learn stuff you will use every day in a workplace, drop out of school now.

I would much rather have a well educated workforce, as every branch of education overlaps on EVERYTHING else. Education is something that applies to you as a whole, even if it is taught in different subjects.

 

[aneeshm]

When I read this thread , I feel tempted to laugh in derision ( even though I'm too polite to actually do it ) . You consider beginning Algebra ( quadratic equations , for God's sake ! How much more basic can you get ?! ) , geometry , and trigonometry to be "advanced math" ?!

Over here in India , calculus , differential equations , algebra of matrices and sets , and boolean and vector algebra , and 3d coordinate geometry are considered basic math . WTH is wrong with the USA's school system that all this is taught only in AP classes ( we in India have no AP classes - the normal courseload it too high to permit them , and all the AP stuff is part of the normal coursework anyway ) ?

No wonder people in the US are worried about loss of jobs to other countries - they need an immediate overhaul of their school system . They need to stop caring for stuednts' self-esteem ( managing that is not the school's problem , the school's job is to provide an education ) and re-introduce rigor in education .

 

[Mr. Blonde]

What you describe is not advanced mathematics. And I can promise you that you will learn even more "advanced" mathematics no matter what you study (I think languages/ literature could be an exception).
I can tell you how pissed my schoolmates were when they started psychology and had a courses on advanced statistics the first two semesters

I also had a basic math course the first two semesters (I am a chemist) and boy, the math we did before in 12 years school was really nothing. It is really fascinating what you can do with math if you actually understand it.